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Old 04/14/2016, 04:39 AM   #3542
34cygni
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
heh. Been telling myself for a while I ought to actually read your whole megapost on p101. Lots of ideas I've toyed with came from searches that flagged small sections of the megapost.
I'm sure most hobbyists think I'm arrogant as hell for putting that up, but...


Quote:
08/16/2015, 10:04 PM #1543
34cygni

I'm willing to go out on a limb if it occasionally means I can find the leverage to push the hobby forward another inch or two.
Ultimately, my hope is that the sponge loop, along with the general propensity of sponges to consume labile DOC released by algae and the bacterioplankton that grow fat and happy on it, can stabilize a hobby system in a state where its microbiome is coral-dominant, and that when combined with a general effort to maintain sand bed biodiversity at the micro level across the entire system, this will keep dinos at bay even when N and P are zeroed out. Stable oligotrophy, like a real reef!

I was thinking that judicious use of GFO could keep P under control without stripping it out of the system, but I'm still quietly freaking out over DNA's observation...


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
So yeah. It's possible that although GFO adds biologically unavailable forms of Fe, due to cyano, algae & co, it may not all stay that way.
There's a category of anaerobic bacteria simply called "iron reducing bacteria" that require Fe+++ for their terminal electron receptor, meaning they process organic molecules by stripping off an electron to break a chemical bond and deposit the electron on an iron atom, changing its ionization state from Fe+++ to Fe++, and the electrons do work along the way to power the bacteria's metabolism. They're players. It even crossed my mind that the increased photosynthesis you saw in the B12 test could have been the dinos trying to obtain iron by releasing photosynthate to drive iron reducing bacteria, but it seems like they should've done better than they did if they were able to get hold of both B12 and iron, and in any case I had no idea if there was a source of iron in the sand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
Also this paper on Fe in seawater is unintentionally hilarious in that it's several dozen scientists basically throwing up their hands repeatedly at the complexity of trying to say what forms of Fe really constitutes "bioavailable" and who uses what, and how once in an organism it changes and is used by the rest of the system.
The irony of iron is that the reason it's in short supply and primary producers have tricks up their sleeves to get hold of it and to make use of different forms of it is that most of the Fe in NSW gets locked up by chelation, which involves iron reacting with organic molecules made by the primary producers themselves. D'oh! But for chelation, in oxygenated seawater iron would be about as readily available as manganese, IIRC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
funny you mention high nutrient low chlorophyll (HNLC) research. a couple of weeks ago, I realized how relevant HNLC was.
I was trying to point you in that direction, but given that HNLC popped when I was looking into B12 limitation, I should've known you'd already made the connection.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
yep. OTC B12 supplements with various forms of cellulose and other fillers.
Shame you don't have your phyto tea or live sand on hand... I wonder if OTC B12 or even just plain cellulose would tip the battle against dinos.

The silica is unexpected -- since you mentioned not looking for diatoms, I'm guessing it was the Sundown Naturals that triggered the dino collapse... Did you use the NatureMade on the first run?


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
I wish I had a larger sump every day. I feel like I'd have so much more punch behind passive remediation options to create stability.
If you can't upgrade your sump, do you have the option of adding a display fuge? Display fuges are cool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
Also, cyano needs to just chill. It's into every sketchy thing. It's like the organized crime family of the ocean.
Cyano was the dominant marine primary producer for more than a billion years before the first true algae evolved, meaning it pretty much ran the oceans. Cyanobacteria were dinoflagellates before dinoflagellates were dinoflagellates, and cyano will be dinoflagellates again when dinoflagellates are acritarchs. Cyano abides.


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