miracle mud?

[shecky79]

Hey guys I am planning to start my tank this weekend and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with miracmud in their sump. Thanks for the help mike

[elegance coral]

What type of system are you going for? If you want a stony coral tank, stay away from MM.

[shecky79]

Really I am just tarting out and the guy who i bought the tank from used said he used mm in the sump. So i just wanted to get some more info on the stuff. I am planning on going with a fowlr tank then move up to softies. I am really puzzeled on what to put in my sump without going with bio balls. I hear activated carbon is good but the space where it would be placed would look to need at least five mesh bags. Is that a normal amount to put in? and is that all I need in the sump as far as biological or are there other choices?

[elegance coral]

Save your money. MM is not needed in your situation and would actually cause you problems. Look into a skimmer to place in your sump. Any chemical absorption media like activated carbon, should have a recommended amount to use printed on the bottle.

[shecky79]

Thanks for the help elegance. I already have a skimmer in the sump I just wasn't sure if if there was anything else I would need. Do you have any suggestions?

[rbnice1]

You could use a section of the sump and put cheato in there or a bunch of rock rubble.

[rbnice1]

As far as carbon you only use 1 mesh bag, but I would recommend looking into a reactor. Best 25 bucks I have spent.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Can you describe the system in a little more detail? Size, other equipment running, etc.? Then we'll know where you stand and have a better idea of what to suggest.

[likemike99]

Why no MM with stonies? I have been doing it for a year with good growth. Just curious what I'm missing

[bertoni]

Miracle Mud can work well, but I think it's overpriced for what it is. Some very fine sand should work as well, IMO.

[elegance coral]

Originally Posted by likemike99

Why no MM with stonies? I have been doing it for a year with good growth. Just curious what I'm missing

MM is good for growing mangroves, algae, and sea grasses. If these are the types of life forms trying to be kept, then MM would be great. 80% of MM is composed of the rot and filth that accumulates at the bottom of the ocean. This makes it great fertilizer for these types of systems. This is the opposite of the environment that stony corals prosper in. Stony corals thrive in very nutrient poor water.

[shecky79]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

Can you describe the system in a little more detail? Size, other equipment running, etc.? Then we'll know where you stand and have a better idea of what to suggest.

This is my setup:
Tank - 48 length 28 height 20 width RR seamless Bowfront
sump is 36 length 15 width 15 height
So far I have 2 tunze 6100's, a 7095 controller,reefkeeper2, 2 250w MH, 2 54w t-5, a mag18 for the return, a euro reef g-3 skimmer.

[elegance coral]

Originally Posted by shecky79

Thanks for the help elegance. I already have a skimmer in the sump I just wasn't sure if if there was anything else I would need. Do you have any suggestions?

Do you have a filter sock? You could get several 100 micron filter socks and change them out every day or every other day, then wash them on the weekend. This helps tremendously to keep the system clean.

[lordofthereef]

Miracle Mud aka snake oil IMO...

[shecky79]

no I do not but I have filter media pads in the first chamber. is this the smae?

[elegance coral]

Originally Posted by shecky79

no I do not but I have filter media pads in the first chamber. is this the smae?

It depends. If it's a find mesh, close to 100 micron, and all the water is forced through it, (no water can go around the filter pad), and it's easy to change out, then it would serve the same purpose.

[sassyfrassy]

As far as carbon you only use 1 mesh bag, but I would recommend looking into a reactor. Best 25 bucks I have spent.

Are you talking about an ozone reactor? Where for $25?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

A carbon reactor - basically just a container that can hold carbon, which you use a pump to force water through. When set up correctly, it can lead to better utilization of the carbon vs. just putting a bag of it in the sump.

[jjk_reef00]

If you are doing sps, and no mud would you do a dsb? And how deep?

[PRDubois]

Do not waist money on mud.

[bertoni]

It's not clear how useful a DSB is with Acropora and similar corals. People report good results with and without a sandbed.

[PRDubois]

I would put 1" in the display and 5" in the sump.

[uncleof6]

Originally Posted by elegance coral

MM is good for growing mangroves, algae, and sea grasses. If these are the types of life forms trying to be kept, then MM would be great. 80% of MM is composed of the rot and filth that accumulates at the bottom of the ocean. This makes it great fertilizer for these types of systems. This is the opposite of the environment that stony corals prosper in. Stony corals thrive in very nutrient poor water.

What is your source of data concerning the composition of Miracle Mud?

For one, by analysis, MM is 26 - 30% silicon, other major constituents: Aluminum, 5-7%, calcium 2 - 4%, iron 3 - 4%, magnesium 1 - 2%, and sodium .6 - 1%. Tested by Northern Analytical Laboratories (New Hampshire) using Glow Discharge Mass Spectometry and an independent analyisis by Lars Sebralla, (Germany) using X-ray Fluorescence Spectometry.

1) By analysis, it is impossible that miracle mud is 80% rot and filth that has accumulated on the bottom of the ocean.

2) If all the silicon in MM is in the form of SiO2 (silicon dioxide), then MM is > 63% quartz. (Source: Randy Holmes-Farley)

In short: MM is not composed of 80% rot and filth from the bottom of the ocean, it is nothing more than silica sand. And as someone already pointed out: Snake oil.

[elegance coral]

Originally Posted by uncleof6

What is your source of data concerning the composition of Miracle Mud?

Their own site for one. http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/pro...acle-mudr.html
Quote from the site.
"Miracle Mud is comprised of up to 80% oceanic mud, harvested from deep underwater and then dried on land."

Here's another
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/mm_analysis.html

1) By analysis, it is impossible that miracle mud is 80% rot and filth that has accumulated on the bottom of the ocean.

Are the terms "rot" and "filth" used in scientific analysis? No! It should have been obvious by my statement that I was not attempting to make a scientific analysis of MM. The sea floor is full of rot and filth (again, not a scientific analysis). If they travel deep underwater and harvest the mud, they will be collecting rot and filth.

it is nothing more than silica sand.

That simply is not true. It's loaded with phosphates, heavy metals, and quite a few other substances I don't' want in my reef tank. You may want to review the link on the analysis of MM a little closer.

[uncleof6]