Fish keep on dyeing on me

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by krowleey

who is arguing that having a cycled QT is a bad idea? the argument is coming from stating you do not need to do WC in QT when the QT is cycled. This is bad husbandry practice, and unfair to the animals. and to give this as advice is reckless. In a true QT tank you will have a BB tank, and as organics build, your water quality declines. that is why most people battle ammonia in QT during copper or hypo treatments. I like Leebca's advice that even when you have a cycled QT you still do large water changes every 2-3 days, you simply can;t go wrong. With your method you are asking for trouble, including ammonia spikes that can and will kill your fish.

It is not neccesary to perform water changes like that in a properly functioning QT. If I am doing a 14 day copper treatment I am not changing water every 3 days....

I went 22 days using Paraguard and never changed a drop of water. I did get an amonnia spike that I am going to attribute to the treatment. I added some more bacteria in a bottle and the amonnia level is back down now.

I understand were wooden reefer is coming from and I agree that proper bacteria in the QT is real imprtant. I guess I just don't understand how to accomplish this adding amonnia and stuff to a tank that is running with fish????

I guess if he/she detailed how they do it maybe it would make more sense. Like do they take these socks full of crushed coral and leave them in the DT for a month the put them in the QT? I don't know....

[wooden_reefer]

I don't want to detract from the focus.

As long as you cycle for the QT, I am OK with doing some WC in QT during the eight weeks of QT.

But I can't help but to bring out a simple math question.

Water 1. DT water after two years of 25% WC each month.

Water 2. QT water after eight weeks without any water change.

Which water will tend to have more dissolved organics? No easy to say for sure.

Each time you do a 25% WC, you remove only 25% of the organics. They keep accumulating.

Based on math, WC in DT for the first two months after stability may well be not essential.

Actually, a precise statement can be made.

When the accumulated organics is equal to what is removed in the WC, periodic stablity, with predictable increase within the period of WC interval, will be achieved.

[wooden_reefer]

"I understand were wooden reefer is coming from and I agree that proper bacteria in the QT is real imprtant. I guess I just don't understand how to accomplish this adding amonnia and stuff to a tank that is running with fish????"

No no No


You cycle in advance without livestock and if applicable in a separate container if the QT is in use.

It seems that even the most obvious to me cannot be assumed.

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

"I understand were wooden reefer is coming from and I agree that proper bacteria in the QT is real imprtant. I guess I just don't understand how to accomplish this adding amonnia and stuff to a tank that is running with fish????"

No no No


You cycle in advance without livestock and if applicable in a separate container if the QT is in use.

It seems that even the most obvious to me cannot be assumed.

Correct no assumptions please.....To cycle a tank I just let it run....Ususally kick it off with some bacteria in a bottle....

If I need to put fish in a tank that is a brand new setup I use more bacteria in a bottle and just keep an eye on things....

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by RBU1

Correct no assumptions please.....To cycle a tank I just let it run....Ususally kick it off with some bacteria in a bottle....

If I need to put fish in a tank that is a brand new setup I use more bacteria in a bottle and just keep an eye on things....

I have never have faith in bacteria in a bottle.

Nitrification bacteria does not have a rigorous resting stage, unlike some patheogenic bacteria. I think you cannot have enough from a bottle.

Plus it costs nothing to cycle.

You can monitor, but if ammonia starts to be detectable, all you have is WC.

I don't want to just monitor. I want to actively and confidently prevent ammonia

[wooden_reefer]

"I guess if he/she detailed how they do it maybe it would make more sense. Like do they take these socks full of crushed coral and leave them in the DT for a month the put them in the QT? I don't know...."

This is better than no nitrification at all, but nothing can replace robust cycling. Bacteria population will not grow to great density if ammonia has not been enough for long enough time.

If you remove a fish in DT and remove just enough filiter medium in DT, it might work. Otherwise, you cannot have some nitrification bacteria and believe that you have enough.

In general, it is better to cycle deliberately in advance for the QT.

In stead of boosting nitrification from a bottle of preserved bacteria (that allegedly exist), it is better to keep medium cycled in advance on hand when you think that the need is not remote. You can add cycled medium instead of bacteria from a bottle.

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

"I guess if he/she detailed how they do it maybe it would make more sense. Like do they take these socks full of crushed coral and leave them in the DT for a month the put them in the QT? I don't know...."

This is better than no nitrification at all, but nothing can replace robust cycling. Bacteria population will not grow to great density if ammonia has not been enough for long enough time.

If you remove a fish in DT and remove just enough filiter medium in DT, it might work. Otherwise, you cannot have some nitrification bacteria and believe that you have enough.

In general, it is better to cycle deliberately in advance for the QT.

In stead of boosting nitrification from a bottle of preserved bacteria (that allegedly exist), it is better to keep medium cycled in advance on hand when you think that the need is not remote. You can add cycled medium instead of bacteria from a bottle.

OK so to put this in my understanding....I should make some of your orange size stocking filled balls of crushed coral and put them in my DT sump? When I need a bacteria boost on my QT just place them in the QT.....RIGHT?

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Cost and possibly some buffering capacity which is important (enough) for fish. About $10, enough for use to stock a 220 gal tank.

I have never used bioballs.

I have never spent any money on things that are very obvious DIY projects. The whole idea of "trickle filter" since the late 1980's and before the advent of live rock filtration was good but was too obvious to justify spending money on.

Wet-dry is very easy to DIY.

If you are getting any buffering from using CC you have bigger issues --- the pH shouldn't be low enough to cause any buffering.