can you help me go skimmerless?

[frankpayne32]

Originally Posted by syrinx

I think if you are going for tank of the month and want to go skimmerless-nano would be the way to go. Generally for a off the hook TOTM or crazy sps tank you need a good skimmer. That relagates the ATS to the same purpose a cheato-and its not worth the work. However if someone wants a nice tank- it can be done with ATS-or with cheato-or a skimmer- or any combination of these things and others. I personally don`t have tanks like i used to when I had the TOTM mentality. I am more into the natural look- and having growth be self limiting to the situation. I am tired of fragging and moving stuff- I am happy to just have a chunk of reef to look at and not care. I do think its bad form to harsh on anybodys tank though-and I thought it was really big of the picture poster not to take offnse.

I assume you are referring to me so I will respond. If you read my response carefully you would see that I specifically said that I meant no offense but it just wasn't to my preference. I don't find that being harsh at all. Just a statement of opinion while even saying "no offense". There is no reason for anyone in this thread to take offense. Everyone is being very polite and reasonable, even when opinions differ.

[syrinx]

Sorry If I offended you! I am just sensitive I guess. I likely would have not refered to another persons tank- rather describe what I wanted to see, but you were polite- the poster wasn`t offended- so I should have not borrowed trouble.

[mrbncal]

I have some new shots. Things have changed a bit. I traded off teh roses and the Gigantea carpet(they took up a lot of room). Got a new smaller rose and a new giant clam. some other things. Anyway here are pics as of this morning.
Dec20,2010

Today Jan30,2011

I am not sure what species this is:

[mrbncal]

Some more stuff






Some cool feater dusters I have found:

[mrbncal]

My wife didn't like the bucket on the side of the tank so I moved it into the sump. Its not pretty but it works great. And this is the scrubber:



And here is my favorite fish in the tank right now Blue striped pipefish. Doing great, constantly browsing for food

[mrbncal]

My scrubber is underpowered, I use a MJ1200. So my algae is browner than what it should be. I am using 120 watt equivilent indoor/outdoor CFL bulbs. They have a 35K rating, which is why they are kind of yellow. I alternate changing the bulbs out. So one bulb is replaced every month and a half (this is apprx, I try to use the bulbs 3to4 months). I have some plans to redo the scrubber but it works so well right now I keep putting the rebuild off. I have a slow drip on the pipe in the pic above, you can see some salt creep everywhere. Another thing that needs redoing. The scrubber gets cleaned at least every 2 weeks, but I really try to clean it every Sunday morning. I get a coffee cup full of algae every time as long as I am feeding regularly.

I havent checked N&P since it went to 0's or undetectable. Took a sample to the store and they verified my results with their test. So I assume its still there as I dont have any indication it has changed. I have not checked Cal/Alk/PH lately either. The clams are putting on new white growth, the grape and red monti caps are getting big. Acros dont grow as fast as the guys with cal reactors I spose, but they do pretty well.

I could go on all day about how much I like this scrubber but you guys would get sick of me. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[zreefs]

i just set up my scrubber today how long untill algae starts growing? thanks

[mrbncal]

Originally Posted by zreefs

i just set up my scrubber today how long untill algae starts growing? thanks

I started seeing algae the first week, but I didnt feel like I was "scrubbing until about the third week. That was when I started seeing strands of hair algae. Once I saw that it came on pretty quickly. The key for me was to just gently rub the algae off the first few cleanings. Now I use a scrapper to remove it.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by zreefs

i just set up my scrubber today how long untill algae starts growing? thanks

The screen should be cleaned free of algae, every 7 days regardless of growth. But you should see some very light growth the first week. With more and more grown every week.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by mrbncal

My scrubber is underpowered, I use a MJ1200. So my algae is browner than what it should be. I am using 120 watt equivilent indoor/outdoor CFL bulbs. They have a 35K rating, which is why they are kind of yellow. I alternate changing the bulbs out. So one bulb is replaced every month and a half (this is apprx, I try to use the bulbs 3to4 months). I have some plans to redo the scrubber but it works so well right now I keep putting the rebuild off. I have a slow drip on the pipe in the pic above, you can see some salt creep everywhere. Another thing that needs redoing. The scrubber gets cleaned at least every 2 weeks, but I really try to clean it every Sunday morning. I get a coffee cup full of algae every time as long as I am feeding regularly.

I havent checked N&P since it went to 0's or undetectable. Took a sample to the store and they verified my results with their test. So I assume its still there as I dont have any indication it has changed. I have not checked Cal/Alk/PH lately either. The clams are putting on new white growth, the grape and red monti caps are getting big. Acros dont grow as fast as the guys with cal reactors I spose, but they do pretty well.

I could go on all day about how much I like this scrubber but you guys would get sick of me. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

I to use a maxi jet to try and compensate for some additional needed flow. I will be changing the plumbing in hopes that the flow will get a little better.
You may find that your growth would get lighter if you clean your screen every seven days. For instance my screen is only 5+ months old and I already harvest a cup of algae every week. You should try and use 27k CFL indoor bulbs. SantaMonica has a done a lot of research on this and these seem to work the best. Increase the number of bulbs if your screen needs more light.

Ps... In no way have you hijacked this thread IMHO. You have silenced the naysayers that preach of failure in long term use. I enjoy the same success you have found with your scrubber. A lively tank with a strong biodiversity.

Thank you for sharing

[bguile]

I think I'll go ahead and chime in on this one since I've been running skimmerless on my 210g since July 2010 and setup a new 40g that has basically been only ATS since it was built in Nov 2010. Here's a couple pics of the 40g at the start:





I later changed my ATS into a contained unit that I built after I decided I was going to continue forward with not using a skimmer. It definitely has helped in keeping the system silent and the equipment salt spray free.




This is what it looks like today with new additions on the way:



I haven't done a water change since it's been running, water parameters stay unusually stable and my ammonia, nitrates, and phospates are all or very very close to 0. In fact, I started overfeeding the system when it only had inverts in it to start the algae growth on the ATS. I had NEVER fed so much to a tank filled with fish for fear of algae and cyano.

Back in July I decided to try going skimmerless on my 210 after I wasn't getting the success I thought I should with it. I immediately noticed that the small corals I did have began opening and growing like gangbusters. However, I wasn't keeping up with water changes as I should have been and algae and cyano went crazy too. Just as I decided to build a smaller reef tank and make the 210 a FOWLR, I happened upon ATS' looking for nitrate reducing solutions. So after I tested the ATS on my 40g, I built one for my 210. Here is the before pic:


here are results 5 days later:



and here's the ATS:


I'm in the process of redesigning it to an enclosed unit, but it's maintaining the system the way it is. To really clean up the sand I need to add approx another 100W of light but since it's becoming a FOWLR, I haven't put much urgency on it.

In closing, I must admit I'm VERY excited about the results that ATS's have shown me and that my limitations (read, money) have now been removed for me to run as many specialized tanks as I would like without the need to purchase an expensive skimmer. HTH

[bguile]

Oh...I wanted to add that I NEVER had any of the diatoms that usually shows up in new tanks using the ATS. Since it's been installed, I've only run into one problem when I started seeing a hairy type algae poking out of my sand. I found out I was choking off my return flow by not removing the included mechanical filter on my Eheim. Once I removed that within days the algae was gone and I once again have clean grey/white sand!!

[mrbncal]

Originally Posted by srusso

You may find that your growth would get lighter if you clean your screen every seven days. For instance my screen is only 5+ months old and I already harvest a cup of algae every week. You should try and use 27k CFL indoor bulbs. SantaMonica has a done a lot of research on this and these seem to work the best. Increase the number of bulbs if your screen needs more light.

I have played with amount of time between cleanings. The longer I wait the greener the algae gets for me, but the more channeled teh flow gets. The light temperature doesn't seem to make a difference on my setup as far as I can tell. I started with the "daylight" temp and have used all three types available to me at Home Depot. I dont notice a difference(I have not tried to measure any cleanings)I dont think it would be enough to warrant going with one temp over another if one was on sale.

I use the indoor/outdoor bulb due to moisture in the stand compartment. I used the spiral bulbs with a reflector for a few months but noticed corrosion at the bases where the bulbs connect to the transformer base. I decided to change to the I/O bulbs until I can afford the premade scrubber he sells or I make my own enclosed version.

Right now though, the limiting factor on my scrubber is flow. I only have about 3/4 of the flow that my screen size demands according to the guidelines (35gph per inch of screen). Once I replace that with a 350+ GPH pump my algae should green up.

[mrbncal]

Originally Posted by bguile;18260300
I later changed my ATS into a contained unit that I built after I decided I was going to continue forward with not using a skimmer. It definitely has helped in keeping the system silent and the equipment salt spray free.

[IMG

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t38/dukeintl/40G%20Aquarium/EX-FH100-CIMG0986.jpg[/IMG]

Tank looks great, like the scape you have done in there. The scubber box you have built is a great looking idea. Kind of what I have been thinking of doing. Also really like that red sponge with the white polps. What is that and how does it do in your tank? Any special requirements?

[skyshrimp]

Wow you tank looks beautiful and gives more confidence with my ats don't feel so bad about leaving my skimmer as much now. How mine can be as helthy as your tank. And love the fact that you have the little critters grothing in your tank as well. I always thought a reef is soo much cooler when you have ALL of the diversity in there. Thanks mrbncal

[spamreefnew]

MRBNCAL said it best,,,,"I now enjoy the hobby again" +1 !!!

[mrbncal]

Thanks for the compliments, good luck with your tank. Just follow the guidelines and you will have success with this method. Don't give up to soon, plan on this needing a month or two to show the results you are looking for.

[zreefs]

should i add some cheato with the ats

[mrbncal]

I had cheato in my sump/refugium and it slowly melted away after the scrubber was installed and running. I do still have some "saw-leaf" caulerpa that is growing ( Ijust like the way it looks in the refugium). You dont need cheato in my opinion, but more important, I dont think it will grow once the scrubber gets rolling.

[zreefs]

so the ats it self will breed pods do i need to add anything like live rock for them

[mrbncal]

Originally Posted by zreefs

so the ats it self will breed pods do i need to add anything like live rock for them

Yes it will. Tons and tons. I always worried that cleaning the algae off the screen would kill pod production but it doesnt. The live rock in your display should be fine. I have "left-over" rock thrown in the corner of the sump and it is very active with pods and shrimps. I dont need it in there but I use it for frags and aquascaping if I buy something new.

[frankpayne32]

I've decided to bite the bullet and build my own ATS to supplement my current filtration scheme. I will post progress on here as well as document it on my build page. My goal is not necessarily to go skimmerless (although that would be nice) but instead to further reduce N/P and produce more pods. Hopefully it will work out as well for me as it did for those posting here!

[syrinx]

The way these guys are running a ATS is not as it was intended by the originator. This is fine, and in my opinion a better way to use the filter. That being said- there is no increase in pod production with the system as it is being used- compared to cheato, rock rubble, dsb etc etc. The original setup for the ATS was above the tank- or in a surge system which dumped the pods directly in the tank- and this greatly increased the pod population of the display tank. I think over the years people have forgotton this, and kept the idea that ATS increases pods. When people brought the ATS down to the sump they made it palatable for the average persons asthetics,but did lose much of what the benefit was to be-wave action and live food directly to the tank.

[spamreefnew]

I get much more pods and shrimp in my display tank than ever ,and my ATS is all the way in my basement!

[flare1185]

I'm curious since I don't wan to redo my plumbing can I use a maxijet in my return section of the sump and hook up the ATS to my return pump section of my sump? That would mean fresh water from the display would pump into the maxijet and fall into the return pump to send it back to the display.