Ecotech Radion ~vs~ AquaIllumination SOL ~vs~ Vertex Illumina

[c-me-fish]

I really appreciate the comparison Jeremy! They all seem like great fixtures. I too would like to know what the par is on the AI SOL blue fixture using 70 degree optics. My new tank is a 250g Marineland DD tank, and am now trying to price out my lighting... Thanks!

[Jeremy B.]

I'll try to test with 70* optics in the near future.

[Steve S]

Thanks for the testing!

[chris88]

Question. How is it that red spectrum is so important in coral photosynthesis yet most people on hear keep stating that the red LEDs In the radion are useless. Where do you think all of the success the Fiji purple and purple plus bulbs came from. If you actually look at the photosynthetic peak for corals it's mostly in the blue and red spectrum. The radion is the only fixture of the three that fills that gap. White LEDs alone do not have enough red in their spectrum. Someone please jump in and try to explain to me why some people are saying the red LEDs do not add to par or pur and are useless.

[Mixed_Reef]

Originally Posted by chris88

Question. How is it that red spectrum is so important in coral photosynthesis yet most people on hear keep stating that the red LEDs In the radion are useless. Where do you think all of the success the Fiji purple and purple plus bulbs came from. If you actually look at the photosynthetic peak for corals it's mostly in the blue and red spectrum. The radion is the only fixture of the three that fills that gap. White LEDs alone do not have enough red in their spectrum. Someone please jump in and try to explain to me why some people are saying the red LEDs do not add to par or pur and are useless.

Why do oceans look blue and light green? Cause the red and yellow colors do not punch down very deep and are the first colors to go. The deeper the water the bluer it gets cause that is the strongest penetrating color. Maybe in a shallow aquarium u won't really notice the red color drop but in deeper tanks u won't c red. Therefore I c no use for it as in nature it's useless.

[bluebastion]

Also, as a Vertex Illumina owner I will have to chime in that there are available red auxiliary led pads that can be added on the fixture. I am not going to be purchasing one as I am holding out for the soon to come UV led add-on. To say that the Radion is the only fixture to have red LED's is only half right... since right-out-of-the-box the Illumina only has Royal Blues, Blue, and White LED's... but you do have the modular options of add on colors.

[chris88]

Why would corals evolve to use red light in photosynthesis if it's not important. The second largest spike in the nm range is 660 which is red. The biology behind this makes me think red is to important color range to just leave out or under utilize.

[Jeremy B.]

Please do not use this thread to debate light usage by corals. There are plenty of other threads to do that in. This thread is intended for comparison use between these three modules only, not what the corals are reacting to best, etc. Thanks!

[chris88]

This is ridiculous. How can you compare the fixtures and not talk about the choice of LEDs they use and the reason behind it.

[Mixed_Reef]

Originally Posted by chris88

This is ridiculous. How can you compare the fixtures and not talk about the choice of LEDs they use and the reason behind it.

Good point! Lol and for ur first post it doesn't really make sense. Nobody evolved since I told u that red doesn't really hit the corals in nature. Just cause somebody threw it on a fixture or a bulb spikes in the red doesn't mean that corals utilize that color. Maybe super shallow reefs yes but most reefs don't c it.

[Dustin1300]

Originally Posted by chris88

This is ridiculous. How can you compare the fixtures and not talk about the choice of LEDs they use and the reason behind it.

The simple fact you should compare in this thread is whether the fixture has red LEDs or not. If you want to argue the importance of red LEDs in the spectrum then start another thread or debate it elsewhere if that is your agenda....

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Jeremy B.

Please do not use this thread to debate light usage by corals. There are plenty of other threads to do that in. This thread is intended for comparison use between these three modules only, not what the corals are reacting to best, etc. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Dustin1300

The simple fact you should compare in this thread is whether the fixture has red LEDs or not. If you want to argue the importance of red LEDs in the spectrum then start another thread or debate it elsewhere if that is your agenda....

Yes.

Chris/Mixed Reef, take that argument elsewhere as you were POLITELY asked to do.

[Frode]

Thanks for this nice thread. Tagging along. Very interested in the SOL 70/70 too. (and I don't care about the red LEDs )

[mapn4reef]

Which of the three do you think are the best design for upgrading components; specifically cost of upgrades, selection of upgrade components available, and ease of doing the upgrades by an average tech user? (and why)

[yongpanda]

Am I the only one underwhelmed by the results of all three LED fixtures? The par spread and penetration seems really subpar compared to T5 fixtures.

Based on Par readings taken 12" below the waterline and fixtures hung 6" over the water, seems like you should be having some trouble keeping clams and sps on the sand bed.

[Jeremy B.]

Not at all underwhelmed with these numbers, keep in mind how much an Apogee PAR meter understates blue light, then figure in these modules have a 2:1 blue to white ration in LED's that they use.

Don't look at the PAR numbers themselves, but rather compare the numbers between modules in a given area of space.

[yongpanda]

I see. I am not too familiar with how par meters work; rather I only know that high par tends to be good.

But since you've made a pretty extensive comparison of these three LEDs, which would you say is best fit for an Elos Midi tank (22.5"x19.7"x19.1")?

[maxxII]

Originally Posted by yongpanda

Am I the only one underwhelmed by the results of all three LED fixtures? The par spread and penetration seems really subpar compared to T5 fixtures.

Based on Par readings taken 12" below the waterline and fixtures hung 6" over the water, seems like you should be having some trouble keeping clams and sps on the sand bed.

I recently went from dual 250 W Phoenix 14K SE's powered by an HQI ballast and a pair of 95 w VHO Actinic's to a pair of Radions over my 120 SPS/Anemone reef.

The dimensions of my tank are 48x24x24.
The tank is BB, and it houses SPS corals on all levels, a pair of H.magnifica anemones, and a single S.tapeteum anemone and various fish.

I've had the H.magnifica for almost 6.5 years now and its split for me which is why I have two. This anemone(s) has been the biggest indicator of light and flow in my system. When the light is not bright enough, (IE swapped from XM 10k DE's on Icecap ballasts, to Hamilton 14K's on Icecap ballasts), it began to move around in search of light. When I went from XM DE's on Icecaps to XM 10K SE's on the HQI, the anemone began to shrink down and reduce its surface area.

When I switched from the XM 10K's to the Phoenix 14K's, the anemone didnt move at all.

I switched to the Radions almost 2 months ago. They are set at 12K, (all LED's at 100%) at 80% intensity level.

The anemone(s) havent moved.....at all.

I'm seeing some acro's at the very bottom of my tank darkening up just a little bit. I expect that to change when I increase the intensity up to 100% in the following year.

I've used T5's and the only advantage to them IMO, is that they have a smaller foot print and use slightly less energy than MH's to run. The bulb replacement cost is almost a wash since you're replacing more of them at the same time.

Eventually, given the cost of electricity, T5's will be less expensive than MH's. However, quality T5 set ups that will give you the best performance will easily cost more than a good MH set up, so you're already starting at a disadvantage.

LED's are thinner than T5's allowing significantly more options for mounting, use significantly less electricity than either MH's or T5's and last significantly longer than either. With a 10 hour photoperiod, you should get 13.3 years of use out of LED's. With a 12 hour photoperiod you should get 10.7 years of use out of the LED's.

The Radion's use 143 watts to run including the fan, (According to those who have tested it with a Kill A Watt meter). IME, a single Radion will replace a single 250 MH fixture. In switching from a pair of 250 W SE MH's and a pair of 95w VHO's, (190 watts total VHO), to a pair of Radions, I've gone from 690 watts of lighting over my 120 gallon reef to 286 watts of lighting. I'm using almost 2.5 times LESS electricity, and I no longer need to spend $170.00 yearly in replacing bulbs.

For me, the Radion's are absolutely worth it. I just purchased a Kessil A350W from Jeremy at Premium for my frag tank, (as in it came today and I havent even hooked it up yet), so I honestly dont have experiance with other brands or makes of LED lights.

I know several people locally who are hard core SPS keepers who were running LOTS of MH's and have gone AI's for lighting and are completely happy with the results in growth. I spoke with Jeremy over the phone and he personally liked the appearance of the Vertex over the tanks as it most closely resembled a MH.

Whichever of these three a person decides to go with, I dont think they'll be disappointed.

LED's work quite well at growing SPS, clams and anemones, and they are here to stay.

[maxxII]

Originally Posted by yongpanda

I see. I am not too familiar with how par meters work; rather I only know that high par tends to be good.

But since you've made a pretty extensive comparison of these three LEDs, which would you say is best fit for an Elos Midi tank (22.5"x19.7"x19.1")?

I think you'd be fine with any of the three....

Just depends on what you prefer about the different lights features.

[yongpanda]

^ thanks for the input! I'll probably go check out to see the AI and Radions in person at a LFS. Unfortunately I don't think any LFS where I live carry Kessil a350s (yet). If you do have the time to hook up that kessil, could you let me know how it compares with your radion in terms of brightness (since I've read that LEDs tend to have a characteristic of lacking brightness while having great intensity). You can PM me your opinions on that since this thread is really more for a comparision of the AI, Radions and Vertex.

[steevareno2002]

Ask them to turn up the brightness of the white LED's and see how bright they can get!

[yongpanda]

Hey jeremy, since you have all three fixtures could you tell me one thing..

I know that the vertex has a pretty nifty mounting kit that you can use to attach to the back of your tank. Do you think you could use that to mount a radion fixture?

[audiofile18]

I buy a radion today, I think is the best

[juggy]

great thread tagging along thanks jeremy for all the hard work

[Jeremy B.]

Originally Posted by yongpanda

Hey jeremy, since you have all three fixtures could you tell me one thing..

I know that the vertex has a pretty nifty mounting kit that you can use to attach to the back of your tank. Do you think you could use that to mount a radion fixture?

I'm sure you could figure out a way to make it work, it just depends on your DIY skills in how well you can make it look like it's "supposed to come that way."