Coral Pro Salt cloudy

[LukeA]

we are having this problem in australia too. http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewto...?f=45&t=237408

[Tabasco]

CPS is the only salt I have used since I set up my tank last April. I had a 175g bucket and that seemed to mix fine. I now have a 55g bucket and that has been pretty bad. My pump is covered in precipitate and I have to clean the 5g bucket after every use. I mix 4g in 5g bucket w a maxijet 1200. I use rodi and have dual tds meter. No buffering or additives.

Last weeks batch was so bad I just dumped it. I have started heating the water to 78 before mixing, so I will change that and see if it helps.

Not really looking for feedback from rs, as it is mostly the same stuff over and over and not really legitimate customer service. But did want to give my feedback. I will post again after mixing cold. I'm mixing tomorrow. I will also finish out this bucket and if it doesn't get better I will probably try another salt. If I can cut maintenance of cleaning pumps and buckets I will.

[jdthomas24]

OK- well i would think now Red Sea sees there is a problem but a failure to admit there is one. Very sad, the problem is they do not want to eat a ton of buckets of salt and they want us to explain every single characteristic of how we mix our salt, its like they want to pick it apart.Aviad, You have all the patience in the world, but i do not. It has come down to this point, change out my bucket of salt for one that properly mixes or i move to another brand of salt. That is as simple and plain as it gets. Lets be for sure how we approach what comes next.
You can not sit there a type out that WE are the issue and the same exact process that we all have done hundreds of time is somehow now flawed. Remember- We all change water weekly or monthly. So lets not sugar coat anything. The pumps are fine, we mix fine, etc etc etc. We dont heat the water--- lets move past that... After-all " WE HAVE DONE WATER CHANGES HUNDRED AND HUNDREDS OF TIMES" The flaw is not our procedure or equipment, It is the salt. Repair what is wrong- exchange the salts to those that chose to and lets move on, otherwise Red Seas name will be forever tarnished just as others in the past who chose th wrong path to go down.

[OffDaHook]

I am having the same problem. I have been waiting two days thinking it would clear. I am running a mag 5 in a 45 gallon brute. I turned off the pump for a little while and also got the thick white film on the bottom. I just bought a 5 gallon bucket from Marine Depot.
RedSea Aviad what do you suggest we do? I can take a photo and post it if you like?

[bdare]

Originally Posted by OffDaHook

I am having the same problem. I have been waiting two days thinking it would clear. I am running a mag 5 in a 45 gallon brute. I turned off the pump for a little while and also got the thick white film on the bottom. I just bought a 5 gallon bucket from Marine Depot.
RedSea Aviad what do you suggest we do? I can take a photo and post it if you like?

Call marine depot. Point them to this thread and demand a refund. Then buy a different salt. Red sea has completely failed to even recognize there is a problem. Either that or we just don't know how to mix salt....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[567234ta]

i recently had an issue with this also, i mix in a brute trash can with a stirring spoon lol
i have been using the red sea coral pro with no issues at all for several buckets, and the last time i mixed and let it sit overnight it was milky looking. it has never done it before. I switched to the red sea originally because the reef crystals had a film. when i added it to the DT it did clear up fairly quickly though, within a day at most.

I do like how quickly it dissolves vs other brands but the cloudiness kinda scared me as ive never had that happen. It would be nice to know why, like if red sea said we tried a cheaper supplier of ca or something and it didn't work out. The truth and an apology always go a long ways with me.

[dmorel]

glad to see this thread if only to confirm that I'm not crazy. I've got a bucket of this salt that simply will not mix at 1.025 without being cloudy. can mix it at a low salinity but once I add enough to actually use it for a water change it's useless. I'm not putting this in my tank no way no how and now I'm forced to clean my mixing tank, pump, and heater AGAIN because of this 50+ dollar bucket of trash.

[GunkGunk]

Hi Everyone. I just wanted to say that I got a bucket of Red Sea Coral Pro salt a couple weeks ago. I mixed it up like I usually do (heat water to 79 degrees, pour amount of salt needed in, mix until dissolved). That water was as cloudy as milk and left a lot of gunk on the sides and bottom of my Brute mixing can. Tank was cloudy for about a day although alk Ca and Mg were all pretty much ok. Felt socks probably helped clear the water a lot.

So I went online and looked here and everywhere else and saw Red Sea's advice on how to mix. Skeptically I decided to try all the things they suggested. First I got an empty 5 gallon bucket and dumped about half the salt from the red sea bucket into the empty bucket. Then poured that salt back into the Red Sea bucket then about 3/4's of the Red Sea bucket into the empty then back into the Red Sea bucket. Repeated this about 6-7 times. Then on my water change today I just left the rodi water at room temp and put in my MJ 1200 for aeration. Then mixed in one cup of salt at a time by sprinkling in just a little bit at a time and stirring with my arm to keep the water turbulent and fast moving. I would just shake a little in and mix it for a 15-20 seconds or so and sprinkle some more. No salt ever reached the bottom. After I got it all mixed to 1.026, actually slightly higher like 1.0265, and put my heater in and let the water heat and mix with the MJ 1200 aerating all of it for about 2-3 hours. It was then warm enough to use and still crystal clear. I swear I thought that there's no way Red Sea's advice would help anything but it actually went into my tank absolutely completely clear.

I know a lot of people are still going to hate this salt. Is it a PITA to mix? Yes. Can it be mixed clear? I have to say yes by what I have seen today. I just wanted to post this for people that are stuck with a full bucket of this salt and don't want to waste it.

By the way the newly mixed water parameters tested with Red Sea Pro test kits tested a bit higher then what is stated on the bucket. Red Sea Coral Pro bucket says at 35.5ppt Alk should be 12.7 Ca 475 and Mg 1420. I got alk 15.2 Ca 510 and Mg at 1520. I don't know why. I had water mixed to 1.0265 which I believe equates to 35.5ppt. I have been using the test kits for awhile and feel confident in how to use them. Now I'm am wondering if there is something weird about their test kits too. Sure seems there are a lot of issues with their products. I want to like them but they are always leaving little questions floating around in my head. I wish I had a bunch of different test kits to check against but at this time I don't. I might get some though. Maybe time for some Hanna checkers. But that's an issue for a different thread. Just wanted to say that I was able to get it to mix clear in the hopes that somebody else stuck with a bucket of it can try to use it. If you switch after that bucket is gone I wouldn't blame you.

[ehutchby]

I've been a Red Sea Coral Pro user for over 4 years. Great success. I've been very pleased with the salt. I probably use 6 175g buckets per year. I've gotton residue in my mixing containers before, but have not had a large amount of precipitate/residue until now. I'm using the same mixing container, same pump, same process that I've used for years.
I'm also seeing small signs of new cyano forming on my sand. I'll contact DFS and ask for a new bucket to be shipped. I'm not changing salt mixes and haven't had problems with the new mix until now.

[HurricaneSystem]

I was a loyal user of RSCP for years, then went to Reef Crystals because that is what my LFS had. Well I just picked up a new bucket and willbe doing a water change in the next couple of days. I don't suspect any issues, but I have to see for myself as I never had any of these problems.

[NaH2Ofreak]

Originally Posted by ehutchby

I've been a Red Sea Coral Pro user for over 4 years. Great success. I've been very pleased with the salt. I probably use 6 175g buckets per year. I've gotton residue in my mixing containers before, but have not had a large amount of precipitate/residue until now. I'm using the same mixing container, same pump, same process that I've used for years.
I'm also seeing small signs of new cyano forming on my sand. I'll contact DFS and ask for a new bucket to be shipped. I'm not changing salt mixes and haven't had problems with the new mix until now.

I think I would either ask for the regular (non coral pro) formula or for a refund. All the new Red Sea Coral Pro salt is the same. It ALL precipitates. A new bucket of the same salt will produce the same results.

[HurricaneSystem]

Alright,

So I am a bit late, busy at work. So I was off today, ran my RO/DI water (4 stage), 000 on TDS meter, poured 20 gallons of freshly ran water into a rubbermaid container. The water was around 69-70 degrees (room temperature).

I then put my heater in, put my powerhead in, and started pouring salt in cups at a time. Added about 5 cups to the water with the powerhead going. Stirred manually to clear any off the bottom.

Absolutely crystal clear. No problems, no issues, perfect as always. This bucket I purchased from my LFS. It is the 55 gallon mix small bucket.

I sympathize with everyone's issues, I do. I really think that either your RO/DI filters are bad, dirty buckets, I have no idea. All I can tell you is that I have never had any issue with the salt.

The ONE time I have ever seen it cloudy is when I mixed it in my 5 gallon Culligan jug and added a little too much PH Buffer to it. I shook the 5 gallon container which was almost full and it clouded up.

That is totally normal with a buffer. So, just posting probably my 200th time mixing RSCP salt.

[NaH2Ofreak]

Originally Posted by HurricaneSystem

Alright,

So I am a bit late, busy at work. So I was off today, ran my RO/DI water (4 stage), 000 on TDS meter, poured 20 gallons of freshly ran water into a rubbermaid container. The water was around 69-70 degrees (room temperature).

I then put my heater in, put my powerhead in, and started pouring salt in cups at a time. Added about 5 cups to the water with the powerhead going. Stirred manually to clear any off the bottom.

Absolutely crystal clear. No problems, no issues, perfect as always. This bucket I purchased from my LFS. It is the 55 gallon mix small bucket.

I sympathize with everyone's issues, I do. I really think that either your RO/DI filters are bad, dirty buckets, I have no idea. All I can tell you is that I have never had any issue with the salt.

The ONE time I have ever seen it cloudy is when I mixed it in my 5 gallon Culligan jug and added a little too much PH Buffer to it. I shook the 5 gallon container which was almost full and it clouded up.

That is totally normal with a buffer. So, just posting probably my 200th time mixing RSCP salt.

You probably have a bucket of the old formula of Coral Pro. They changed the formula. There are still buckets out there of the old (good) stuff.

Dennis

[HurricaneSystem]

To confirm your question or not, have any batch numbers that would indicate old? The container is black like the new version. I have a batch number, etc.

I can tell you also that this salt is much clearer in the tank than Reef Crystals.

[NaH2Ofreak]

Hmm, that's kind of funny that you mentioned that because I just switched from the Coral Pro (also a long time user) to reef crystals and was amazed at the clarity. In fact, I was going to snap a picture of nice clear water in the mixing vat along with my completely white heater, pump and thermometer that got that way from using the new Coral Pro. I really liked the old formula and used nothing but that for at least 20 buckets worth. Then one day I got a bucket and blamo, cloudy, precipitated water.

Not sure of the batch numbers. It has never been admitted to be a problem with Red Sea. As a matter of fact, I think the rep just gave up on the "blame the aquarist" game and doesn't even address issues in this forum any longer. There can't be THIS many people that have suddenly forgot how to mix water.

I firmly believe that Red Sea reformulated the Coral Pro to have the absolute highest numbers for the mix regarding Ca, Mg, dKH. I think the solution comes out absolutely saturated and as such, has some precipitate. I think the cloudy water is fine to use in your aquarium. It dissolves clear with a little time. This new formula has one goal and that is increased growth. So if that is what you're trying to do, at the expense of some color, then by all means use this new formula of Coral Pro. If you don't need that extra growth and you want to instead focus on color, then go with the regular formula of Red Sea salt and that should give you what you're looking for. Also, if you are running a "low nutrient" or "bacterial driven" systems, you will want your levels regarding Ca, Alk and Mg to be closer to nsw levels in order to prevent tissue necrosis in susceptible corals. Again, this would mean using the regular Red Sea formula.

I think the big problem is when you've been using the old RSCP forever and loving it, then things change and as opposed to explaining properly, you come up with the notions that people are not following absolute strict mixing guide lines so....It's their fault. '

Just my two cents
Dennis

[HurricaneSystem]

Hi Dennis,

Maybe I should record a video of my mixing procedure and the outcome. It would be boring, but the salt mixed crystal clear. Both of my tanks look great this morning.

I was having quite a bit of glass algae using Reef Crystals. Haven't seen any yet on RSCP, but not enough time has passed. I am sure that happens in all tanks though, no matter the salt.

I seem to notice a common thing in these cloudy posts too. Most see to buy from DFS? I love that place, but just wondering if something is wrong with how they store it, etc?

[ehutchby]

For what it's worth. I originally posted that I had the same cloudy, chaulky, mess that others had experienced. I called DFS, spoke to a very kind, supportive, service representative, who said that she, and her manager, had not heard of any problems with Coral Pro salt. They shipped me two new buckets of the salt (according to their website, they don't carry the regular red sea salt). Thank you DFS.

[abellia]

I still get a small amounts of chaulk like film and cloudiness. I have two circulator pumps (tunze) in an 18 gallon Rubbermaid. Used to be worse when i hand mixed. Short of using a blender I don't know what I else I can do. At this point at just deal with it as I don't notice ill-effect on coral or fish.

[reefknight]

I'm not getting the cloudiness and precipitation that you all are stating, but low test values in a new bucket of salt. Please visit this thread if you can post values of your freshly made saltwater.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2175664

Thank you

[markaren]

So does the cloudiness go away? I am one of these victims.the difference is ...I will never ever drop it. I will foreeeeeevvvvveeerrr always state that this salt mixes bad. My choice to say it....your choice to market it and say we are idiots.

The aspects of your guidelines should be passed on to the LFS you sell them at. By not doing so the ruse is in your hand. If given the choice about this milk problem verses another...adios amigo.

One thing a consumer hates more than anything is a product with no honesty in disclaimer. You could sell me a pig with lip stick if I knew it was what it is. But if you sell me a goat and I have to find out it is a pig with lip stick after being up all night mixing...well now ya got a product that has a foundation built one brick (customer) at a time and that foundation will fall fast 10 bricks at a time.

You can repeat the same to try to expect different results, or a company can have that rare moment of respectful action and recall. the result is either permanent loyalty or permanent one time sale . We are still in an age when upper management can have no clue about the instant information age.

All because a bag does not say in bold lettering dry mix completely Prior to use". How hard is it to program that font into the directions. Mix salt with water...what is this gpd ratio requirement talk. We are hobbyist not scientists (well some are) NONE OF THIS GUYS INSTRUCTIONS ARE ON THE BAG...NONE.

Ironically a Company that Markets denial , denies their Marketability ....quickly .

Moderators please erase if this is too rude. I just spent my vacation trusting this salt for my first set up. Memorable it will indeed be.

[markaren]

my local fish stores happens to be World Wide Corals. They immediately told me to bring it in for a full refund... no reason, no receipt, and no problem. I will be getting instant ocean. I have had nothing but exceptional service at world wide corals... lucky to live in the orlando area.

[HurricaneSystem]

Hey Mark,

Sounds like you have had a pretty bad experience. Like I said, I don't doubt anyone and I don't think people are that far off in their mixing procedures. I have done "emergency" water changes and just mixed the salt in a bucket with the water and poured it in.

I just have never, ever had that problem with it. I have used the normal "old bucket" and the new black bucket. If you are definitely against this salt and you are running a reef, please do yourself and favor and buy Reef Crystals. Instant Ocean will support anything, but you will have to dose like crazy.

If I can help you in any way, drop me a PM, I would be glad to have a conversation with you if you are new to the hobby.

[markaren]

Thanks Hurricane...hind sight...I actually went to buy Reef Crystals and remembered some positives on Red Sea and it never accured to me that this salt would not mix like it always has. The silence from Red Sea is loud and clear now...from here to Australia. I got a full refund and will certainly without question take your advice on my next purchase. Thank you for your time and advise. I will certainly need some help in the future and will take your kind offer as well.

[RedSea Aviad]

I'm sorry for the late response, I was away on the roads again.
In March/April 2012 Red Sea received a few complaints about certain buckets of Coral Pro salt that did not mix as normal. It was reported that the water had a milky/cloudy appearance that did not clear up irrespective of how long the mixing continued.

In response to the complaints we have re-tested the archive samples of the specific batches as well as samples returned to us by customers. When mixed according to our laboratory mixing protocol all of the samples we tested dissolved fully, resulting in crystal clear salt water. The foundation element levels of some of the samples tested were at the extremes though within the defined range.

We then conducted further experiments to find possible causes of the milky/cloudy appearance and found 3 factors that can sometimes cause irreversible calcium carbonate precipitation during mixing. The effects of these factors can vary and, certain batches of Coral Pro are much more sensitive to the mixing conditions than others. One conclusion of our testing is that the importance of these 3 factors namely; temperature of the water, accuracy in measuring the quantity of salt and water and the length of mixing time, need to be better emphasized in the printed mixing instructions (that are now being amended) as sometimes these factors become critical.

From past experience most instances of cloudiness on mixing have been resolved by ensuring that the water is at approximately 20OC/68OF before mixing and that the mixing is stopped as soon as the salt dissolves. Since Coral Pro Salt has elevated levels of foundation elements and is recommended to be mixed to a salinity of 35ppt, relatively small errors in the amount of salt and water used can put the foundation elements above their solubility level.

In any case where the detailed mixing instructions (as defied below) are adhered to and a clear solution is not achieved after 2 hours of mixing, please contact a Red Sea Customer Service representative.

Mixing Instructions:
1. Use RO water that is at a temperature of approximately 20OC/68OF”.
2. Accurately weight the salt and measure the volume of water according to the salinity you wish to achieve.
3. Pour the salt gradually into the water. Do not pour water onto the salt.
4. Mix vigorously (without aeration) for approximately 0.5 - 2 hours, until all of the salt is dissolved and pH has stabilized to 8.2 – 8.4” - DO NOT mix for more than 4 hours.
5. When mixed, raise the temperature and add to the aquarium. (Not absolutely necessary for a small water change)

Technical Notes:
1. Coral Pro was specially designed for enhancing the calcification process in all corals. It contains elevated levels of the foundation elements (calcium, magnesium and the carbonate alkalinity components) and is recommend to be mixed to a salinity of 35ppt. The combination of high levels of foundation elements and salinity makes the elements close to their natural saturation levels in seawater enhancing the possibility of precipitation.
2. The raw materials used in the latest formula of Coral Pro dissolve much quicker than in the past and even if the seawater is not to be used immediately, it should not be mixed for much longer than required to dissolve the salt. In fact Coral Pro salt has gone from being one of the slowest salts to dissolve, to one of the fastest, particularly when taking into account the levels of the foundation elements for the accelerated growth of SPS corals.
3. Due to the thermodynamics of the dissolving process of the salt formula, water that is significantly cooler or warmer than the recommended 20OC/68OF will slow down the mixing process. Warmer water is a contributory factor to causing precipitation of the foundation elements making the water cloudy.
4. Mixing the salt with high agitation at the water surface increases the amount of CO2 that evaporates from the water causing an increase in both pH and alkalinity that enhances the chance of precipitation.
5. The built in inaccuracies of home measuring tools (weighing the salt, volume of water and quality of hydrometer/refractometer) may lead to a salinity of 1-2 ppt more than desired, increasing the chances of precipitation.
6. Due to excessive vibration during shipping and the different particle sizes and weights of the various elements in the salt, sometimes the mix can lose some of its homogeneity. This can lead for example to higher calcium levels at the top of the bucket which can cause precipitation (cloudiness) on mixing. Dry mixing the contents of a bucket will restore the original homogeneity.

All the best,
Aviad

[NaH2Ofreak]

Originally Posted by RedSea Aviad

When mixed according to our laboratory mixing protocol all of the samples we tested dissolved fully, resulting in crystal clear salt water.

Well, there ya have it. You gotta have a lab in order to mix their salt. Duh!

Dennis