Ugh... Need some help, unhappy zoathids.

[JSeymour]

So today I wake up to two of my zoanthid colonies looking not right, one more than the other. One looks like some of the polyps are melting, the other just isn't right. Pics to follow. This tank has only four groups of zoanthids and one paly. It's an sps tank, with parameters that follow suit. Parameters to follow. No new life has been added in over four months, including snails. Everything get's quarantined, including snails. Here's some tank info for you. All test kits are Salifert.

Parameters 3/3/12;
Salinity: 32 ppt (down from 33 ppt on 2/4/12)
Temp: 79 F (same on 2/4/12)
Nitrate: Undetectable (same)
Phosphate: Undetectable (same)
Calcium: 405, corrected to 420(410 to 420 on 2/4/12)
Alkalinity: 3.2 meq/l, no correction (same)
Magnesium: 1280, corrected to 1350(1260 to 1350 on 2/4/12)
These are pretty typical for the monthly tests I do.

FTS from 3/3/12:
This is the most recent pic showing the zoanthids in good health. They are all on the bottom in the center.


Parameters today, 3/9/12;
Salinity: 32 ppt
Temp: 79 F
Nitrate and Phosphate: Undetectable via Salifert
Calcium: 420
Alkalinity: 3.2 meq/l
Magnesium: 1350
No testable change.

Pics of Zoanthids from today, 3/9/12.

This first colony has been here the longest, never a problem with it. The melted ones are sloughing something, looks like flesh.


Close up. There is a polyp near the top that looks like this there is a spider zoa on it. In person, it doesn't quite... It also seems too small right?


Second "colony". This is the result of a single polyp I removed from a small colony of eagle eyes that are in the tank. Today they look, shriveled.


I just don't understand what happened to them. Last night they looked great. Every single other inhabitant of the tank is still looking/doing great. Any ideas? Are the two situations even related? Any thought is appreciated.

[JSeymour]

So, it's been an hour since I took the first pics. I'm reposting the original so it's easier to compare an hour of time. These are receding fast. I've never seen anything like this. To be safe, I just relaced a small amount of carbon and gfo. I didn't replace too much, as I don't want to cause another problem by stripping too much stuff out, too fast. Here is the pics, the first one(an hour ago) and now, in order.




Lucky for me I have the day off.

[JSeymour]

The red zoanthids continue to get worse. No one has any ideas, guesses, conspiracy theories? I'm open to it all...

[A. Grandis]

Probably bacteria infection!
I would cut the damaged polyps with a new sharp razor blade and discard them.
Please use gloves, goggles and close your mouth!
Siphon out all the dead flesh and substrate from the tank where the zoas are.

Lugol's solution dips would help to prevent the infection to spread to the other polyps of the same colony.
1 -3 drops per 8 - 10oz of tank water or fresh water for 3 minutes.
After that rinse colony with tank water and put back in the system.
Repeat after 24 hours if needed.

This treatment is for the red zoas.

I would remove GFO and leave only the carbon.

My $.02.

Grandis.

[JSeymour]

Thanks for the reply. I was starting to think bacterial as I've watched it spread. I'm not sure why this colony is being affected, it always seemed very healthy. I was just thinking about fragging it a bit. I'll start peeling and dipping in moment. Should I dip all the zoanthids? I can easily disconnect the GFO, but I'm curious as to why?

[JSeymour]

So I dipped them for three minutes in freshwater with Lugol's per your instructions. I didn't remove as many "dead" polyps as I thought I probably should. Luckily they look like they'll make it. They look terrible today with their black skirts and brown centers, but still kicking and the infection looks gone. I plan on dipping again tommorrow using saltwater, just in case. Thought the extra day of recovery would benefit them.

[A. Grandis]

Avoid to dip two days in a row if you don't need to.
Wait to see how they react to the first treatment.
Let them rest.
If you want to dip again wait and do it after tomorrow.
They'll make it!
Please post pictures after the treatment, if you can...

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Sorry, I forgot about the GFO...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&highlight=gfo

Grandis.

[ek9vboi]

Yeah, I would frag off a small piece to be safe.

[JSeymour]

So just a little update. Almost all of my Zoanthids in the tank became infected. They each recieved atleast one dip, the red ones got two. Most of the polyps did not make it, leaving only a couple polyps of each variety. At this point, there are still traces of the infection but I don't plan on any further intervention. I didn't frag any of them as I didn't want it to spread to other systems or further stress/damage what was/is surviving.

Only the Zoanthids were affected, if anything my SPS look better than ever with insane polyp extension(Montis look like shag carpet). My batteries died, so no pics for now.

[A. Grandis]

If you don't remove the dead spots you could help the spread of the infection.
You don't need to place them in other systems.
You need to cut off the dead/infected spots in order to treat.
That's the right way to do it. Other wise the infection could come back or not.
There is more stress when you don't remove the infected/dead spots than when you do and dip the zoas.

Grandis.

[JSeymour]

I did remove all the dead and dying polyps several times. It seemed like everytime I removed some bad ones, I damaged "good" ones and they got infected. After several dips and stripping of infected and dead polyps and it only seeming like it was getting worse, so I stopped. I started feeling like I was doing more harm than good. This isn't a zoanthid tank, they were just some "extras" so if I lost them...

Luckily today, the few polyps showing some infection yesterday are clear. Some of the polyps that were looking completely dead(looked like mucus blobs), are coming back. The dips definitely helped slow the infection, maybe allowing the few zoanthids that were strong enough to fight it off.

My biggest concern is that these surviving Zoanthids could become carriers and infect others down the road. Is this a possibility or have I just been watching too much Walking Dead?

[A. Grandis]

Relax now! Everything will probably be ok.
No, they won't "carry the infection".
Bacteria is in the system and next time, if happens, just act fast with the treatment.

Leave them resting and avoid changes in the system. They'll be fine!!

Good luck!
Grandis.

[JSeymour]

So a quick little update. None of the varieties were lost, although they all took a heavy hit. They took a really long time to regain their health and start polyping out again.

Here they are slowly coming back. Growth has really increased in the last two weeks.




Thank you for your help Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

My pleasure.
I'm very happy for you, my friend.

Cheers,
Grandis.

[Jarred1]

That brown stuff is no joke, I have had it before and lost all the zoas it was on. To this day I still have no idea what cause healthy zoas to become infected like that.

[JSeymour]

So I figured I would just post here, as I think what I'm seeing may be a direct reaction to the previous bacterial infection. It seems to me that the infection has caused a mutation or awakened some sleeping genes, causing tentacles to start growing off the oral disc. Absolutely nothing, except for the infection a couple months ago, has changed. Same water parameters, same lighting, same flow, same location in the tank. Not all of them are showing this, maybe only ten or so. Here are some comparison pics.

Feb. 2012


Today, May 29


Anybody ever see this before? I'm kind of excited to see how they further develop.

[A. Grandis]

Are you sure there was no changes on the water flow and/or light?
I've never ever had that happened yet nor heard about that before.
I wouldn't think it is a direct bacterial infection related episode.
It could be tricked by the bacterial infection somehow and therefore it's happening without major changes in the system.

I don't think it is something for us to be worried about.
I mean, they are healthy.

Are those new polyps (did they born after the infection)?

Perhaps others will stop by and let us know their experiences with that.

Good to see the polyps are growing.
Thanks very much for the update!!!
Take care!

Grandis.

[JSeymour]

Yep, same flow(very high, alternating flow area) and same lighting(250 watt Phoenix bulbs that are six months old currently, 8 hours per day) glued back to the exact same spot it was in before the infection. The only change in water chemistry has been a decrease in nitrate from a range of undetectable to 5 ppm to a steady undetectable(>.2 ppm) via Salifert due to a change in my refugium design. I don't think the environment is causing it.

It's hard to say if these are survivors or new polyps as I didn't pay that close attention to them as they regrew(this is an sps tank after all ).

I also don't believe it is something to worry about, just a cool, notable observation. I'll keep this thread updated if anything changes.

Thanks again for your time Grandis, you've been extremely helpful.

[A. Grandis]

Ok, keep us posted...


Grandis.

[JSeymour]

I just didn't feel the previous pic documented what I'm seeing in the polyps completely, so I took a few more. You'll note all of the zoanthids before the infection(previous photo) have very similar patterns and colors. These new pics show the variety of patterns, tentacle 'mutations, and pigments(pink mouths on some now too). Who knows maybe they'll all revert back to a standard model, but maybe not.

Colony


Left side


Right side

[BIG_KAHUNA]

Chemical warfare?

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[JSeymour]

It's possible I guess, but I would think someone would have seen this before if it was based on allelopathy. I have yet to find anything like/about this documented as of yet.

[JMCAquarium]

Just a stress reaction the heads crack only bad side to this they cant eat while the mouth is jacked up. So short of living off what they make with the lights they arent eating until the heads repair. I had some greenbay packers do this after I dipped them for Nudi's half the colony died anyways but the other half came back and besides a few discolored ones the new growth looked normal.
Good luck

[JMCAquarium]

Also you seem to have a ton of snails do you know what kind they are ?
Pyramidellid or Rissoid snail?