Better substrate recommendations

vsiege · 05/02/2012, 01:48 PM

I was told that my aragonite substrate might be trapping too much mysis shrimp that I feed my seahorses (now deceased due to tail rot, at least one of them did). I was looking to find a fine aragonite substate and wanted to get some recommendations. I would like to do a mix of 10 lbs black and 10 lbs white. Although sand looks great and fits the bill in terms of size, I would still like to find fine aragonite sand. Can anyone recommend a specific product? While I love what I have right now (Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Black Beach Reef Sand), I was told it might be better to have fine substrate.

gweston · 05/02/2012, 02:28 PM

I recently put Caribsea fiji pink into a 40B. Its expensive stuff, but I was impressed by it. Not too fine, not too rough. Has a nice color/texture to it. Was also easy to wash. The tank settled overnight ~8-12 hours and was clear again. The special grade reef sand is quite nice too, but it is coarse. Think tiny bits of crushed shell. Marco sand is super fine and soft. Once washed well and settled, it looks very nice.

I wouldn't think your sand is causing a problem though. I don't know much about seahorses, but one of the following should help.

-If food is hitting the sand, they aren't eating it. Try feeding a bit less.
-Check your water params. If too much food is rotting, your nitrates/phosphates,etc are going to spike. Water changes and/or GFO can help there. Poor water quality will cause sores/erosion (tail rot).
-If your substrate isn't too fine, you can probably vacuum the substrate periodically with a gravel/substrate siphoner. Alternately, add something like a Fighting Conch, and/or a serpent starfish. If those are too big, a small herd of Nassarius snails work too. They are carnivores and burrow through the substrate.

Also verify your tank temp is where it should be. Seahorses can have certain, sometimes strict, temperature requirements. If the temp is off, it could result in losses. If I remember correctly, seahorses tend to prefer somewhat cooler temps than an average reef tank.

Reef1121 · 05/02/2012, 02:48 PM

I use #2 Samoa Pink sand in my reef and its not to thick but its not light enough to be blown away by my mp40. But like what gweston said there's other issues if there is stuff lying on the bottom and nothing happening with it.

Do you have a cleanup crew in the tank? (nasscarius snails, cerith snails, crabs, ect..)
And is there enough flow in the tank, where there's no dead spots?

vsiege · 05/03/2012, 04:42 PM

Thank you both. Let me try to address both of your comments, then maybe I cna get a little bit closer to my overall issue/s:

The sand that I had purchased seems to fit the size grain you both describes above 0.5 - 1.5 mm grain size. Plus I had even mixed in ultra fine white sand (about 5 lbs).

I have a variety of snails: ceriths (2), Nassarius(2), turbo (1), astrea (1) and 3 micro hermits. I had two peppermine shrimp in there, but they used to out compete the seahorses for food, so I had to remove them.

Water params:
PH: 8 - 8.2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nirtrate: 0

I had these params the week the last pony died. I do not have a test for phosphates.

If it doesn't sound like the substrate I have is the issue. Then maybe I need to increase the Nassarius snails from 2 - 12.

Vacuuming.... I was told that is was up to the dividual and that not everyone did it. Since my params (esp. Nitrates) went down and looked good, I decided to vacuum. My aqueon vac doesnt start the siphon very easily either. That could just be me.

Yes, food had reached the bottom as they were being fed from Pipettes; spot fed. But I wouldn'd say it was a lot. I was target feeding. I could perhaps try a feeding tray and remove the tray after a half hour, next time.

Temperature: currently 76.1˚ I wish the temp would stay much lower but I have all hang on the back equipment and dont have much options.

I'm really trying to better prepare myself before I make any more livestock purchases (will not be getting from LFS.... have two great dealers) and I'm ultimately trying to address all the concerns now. Thanks again.

IMAGES:

hscoert · 05/03/2012, 10:32 PM

I have had seahorses for over 10 years now, and I found that using a "feeding station" helped for several different reasons. After lots of different methods, I decided to make my own by taking a simple tupperware dish and made holes in the back for suction cups to attach the dish to the glass. I then cut out several more holes and put straws (cut to about 5" or so) in each hole. This provided hitching posts for all my seahorses. (seahorses are smart, and each one of my seahorses had their designated post, in which they waited on while "dinner" was being prepared) I always gave them frozen, enriched mysis shrimp as a main diet. Over the years, I ended up with 8 proven mated pairs, and actually had to make another feeding station to accomodate everyone.
I fed twice a day, 6 days a week. For clean-up crews, I had mostly snails, a sand star, and some gobys and blenneys, so I never had to worry about any kind of left overs. You want to be sure not to have many crabs, and should be careful of any other fish that can be more aggressive eaters. Mandarins do ok, but they need lots of "bugs" to eat for the most part and pipefish do well as tank mates also....
I hope this helps. Good luck, and keep us posted!

vsiege · 05/04/2012, 03:55 PM

great info. I have a couple of questions. I will construct a feeding dish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hscoert

I have had seahorses for over 10 years now, and I found that using a "feeding station" helped for several different reasons. After lots of different methods, I decided to make my own by taking a simple tupperware dish and made holes in the back for suction cups to attach the dish to the glass. I then cut out several more holes and put straws (cut to about 5" or so) in each hole.

1. With all that cleanup crew and feeding station affixed.... did you vacuum? how regularly?
2. What temp do you keep your system/s at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hscoert

I always gave them frozen, enriched mysis shrimp as a main diet....I fed twice a day, 6 days a week.

3. What brand?
4. Did it come enriched or did you use Vibrance II or spirulina?

05/02/2012, 01:48 PM	#1
vsiege Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 59	Better substrate recommendations I was told that my aragonite substrate might be trapping too much mysis shrimp that I feed my seahorses (now deceased due to tail rot, at least one of them did). I was looking to find a fine aragonite substate and wanted to get some recommendations. I would like to do a mix of 10 lbs black and 10 lbs white. Although sand looks great and fits the bill in terms of size, I would still like to find fine aragonite sand. Can anyone recommend a specific product? While I love what I have right now (Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Black Beach Reef Sand), I was told it might be better to have fine substrate.

05/03/2012, 04:42 PM	#4
vsiege Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 59	Thank you both. Let me try to address both of your comments, then maybe I cna get a little bit closer to my overall issue/s: The sand that I had purchased seems to fit the size grain you both describes above 0.5 - 1.5 mm grain size. Plus I had even mixed in ultra fine white sand (about 5 lbs). I have a variety of snails: ceriths (2), Nassarius(2), turbo (1), astrea (1) and 3 micro hermits. I had two peppermine shrimp in there, but they used to out compete the seahorses for food, so I had to remove them. Water params: PH: 8 - 8.2 Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nirtrate: 0 I had these params the week the last pony died. I do not have a test for phosphates. If it doesn't sound like the substrate I have is the issue. Then maybe I need to increase the Nassarius snails from 2 - 12. Vacuuming.... I was told that is was up to the dividual and that not everyone did it. Since my params (esp. Nitrates) went down and looked good, I decided to vacuum. My aqueon vac doesnt start the siphon very easily either. That could just be me. Yes, food had reached the bottom as they were being fed from Pipettes; spot fed. But I wouldn'd say it was a lot. I was target feeding. I could perhaps try a feeding tray and remove the tray after a half hour, next time. Temperature: currently 76.1˚ I wish the temp would stay much lower but I have all hang on the back equipment and dont have much options. I'm really trying to better prepare myself before I make any more livestock purchases (will not be getting from LFS.... have two great dealers) and I'm ultimately trying to address all the concerns now. Thanks again. IMAGES: __________________ Seahorse setup: 37 gallon; Reef Octopus BH-1000 HOB, Marineland Penguin 200, LEDs Searching for: JBJ chiller and a canister filter Last edited by vsiege; 05/03/2012 at 04:48 PM.

05/02/2012, 02:28 PM	#2
gweston Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gardner, MA Posts: 961	I recently put Caribsea fiji pink into a 40B. Its expensive stuff, but I was impressed by it. Not too fine, not too rough. Has a nice color/texture to it. Was also easy to wash. The tank settled overnight ~8-12 hours and was clear again. The special grade reef sand is quite nice too, but it is coarse. Think tiny bits of crushed shell. Marco sand is super fine and soft. Once washed well and settled, it looks very nice. I wouldn't think your sand is causing a problem though. I don't know much about seahorses, but one of the following should help. -If food is hitting the sand, they aren't eating it. Try feeding a bit less. -Check your water params. If too much food is rotting, your nitrates/phosphates,etc are going to spike. Water changes and/or GFO can help there. Poor water quality will cause sores/erosion (tail rot). -If your substrate isn't too fine, you can probably vacuum the substrate periodically with a gravel/substrate siphoner. Alternately, add something like a Fighting Conch, and/or a serpent starfish. If those are too big, a small herd of Nassarius snails work too. They are carnivores and burrow through the substrate. Also verify your tank temp is where it should be. Seahorses can have certain, sometimes strict, temperature requirements. If the temp is off, it could result in losses. If I remember correctly, seahorses tend to prefer somewhat cooler temps than an average reef tank.

05/02/2012, 02:48 PM	#3
Reef1121 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Travis AFB Posts: 299	I use #2 Samoa Pink sand in my reef and its not to thick but its not light enough to be blown away by my mp40. But like what gweston said there's other issues if there is stuff lying on the bottom and nothing happening with it. Do you have a cleanup crew in the tank? (nasscarius snails, cerith snails, crabs, ect..) And is there enough flow in the tank, where there's no dead spots?

05/03/2012, 10:32 PM	#5
hscoert Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 58	I have had seahorses for over 10 years now, and I found that using a "feeding station" helped for several different reasons. After lots of different methods, I decided to make my own by taking a simple tupperware dish and made holes in the back for suction cups to attach the dish to the glass. I then cut out several more holes and put straws (cut to about 5" or so) in each hole. This provided hitching posts for all my seahorses. (seahorses are smart, and each one of my seahorses had their designated post, in which they waited on while "dinner" was being prepared) I always gave them frozen, enriched mysis shrimp as a main diet. Over the years, I ended up with 8 proven mated pairs, and actually had to make another feeding station to accomodate everyone. I fed twice a day, 6 days a week. For clean-up crews, I had mostly snails, a sand star, and some gobys and blenneys, so I never had to worry about any kind of left overs. You want to be sure not to have many crabs, and should be careful of any other fish that can be more aggressive eaters. Mandarins do ok, but they need lots of "bugs" to eat for the most part and pipefish do well as tank mates also.... I hope this helps. Good luck, and keep us posted!