I want to get certified but... my ears

Bongo Shrimp · 05/04/2012, 08:50 PM

So this summer I was/am finally hoping to go get scuba certified however I have always been leery of this because I have trouble equalizing. I mean even when snorkeling and I want to dive down 5-7ft to see something up close I frequently get so much pressure/pain in my ears I have to go back up. BTW I went to an ENT Dr. just in case and he said I am perfectly fine, just sensitive. I have heard all the common ways to equalize such as holding your nose and blowing (doesn't work for me I have tried it on planes), moving your jaw around... and I have tried these but many times (on a plane at least) I still have trouble. I also have been told to use a nasal spray (which I use on planes) called afrin to help.

Does anyone have any other advise on this? I NEED to be able to scuba dive.

slapshot · 05/04/2012, 08:57 PM

One word.......Afrin. Scuba divers friend. One squirt in each nostril 1 hour before you go. Never a problem then. GET CERTIFIED!!!!

markaren · 05/05/2012, 04:46 AM

Boils Law is basically increased depth, increased pressure, decreased volume. Decreased depth, decrease pressure , increased Volume. So on a plane you would actually need to chew gun or move your jaw as mentioned for air to "exit" the Eustachian tube. This would be opposite of diving (in fact you are ascending further into less pressure (decreased pressure) plugging nose and sucking in with nose theoretically would help on a plane. If I have a certain congestion in my sinuses., I have severe pain even at one foot in a pool. I live in Florida so I swim all the time and this always catches me be surprise because I do not feel sick at all. In fact I always think when this happens that it would be a bummer to plan a dive trip and have this happen. I am not aware of how a doctor can actually see your inner Eustachian tube with a regular visit. An ear specialist might be able to determine the issue. If you have never been able to clear your nose (like right now I plugged my nose and gently blew and made a crackly noise) then you may be one of the rare ones that have an ear issue. I remember learning about this in my advanced class.

BBraker · 05/05/2012, 07:22 AM

I was told by my ENT that I should not dive due to problems with my eustachien tubes (spelling?)...that was 40 years, 350 hours of diving and a PADI divemaster cert. ago. I do need to take care though; if I'm conjested, I start clearing my ears (valsalva maneuver) before I even go underwater and then I clear constantly for the first ten feet of the dive.

I won't use ANY deconjestant though - I once took pseudafed because I needed to do a dive and I had a cold. I got to the bottom o.k., but at the end of the dive, when I got to about 5 feet of the surface, I got a severe reverse squeeze and my eardrum ruptured. The flood of cold water caused vertigo and I sank back down to around 15' before I could get control. Luckily I kept my regulator in my mouth! I can only presume that the medication wore off during the dive. Another time I used a different deconjestant (don't recall what type) and did a group dive to 120' off New Providence. I could not go deeper than 105' - the nitrogen narcosis was so bad, I presume in reaction to the drug I had taken, because I've never had that problem before or since. I should add that this was all many years ago and they have much better meds now - but I was always taught; if you need a drug to manage a dive, don't dive. Off topic, but diving with scolpolomine patches is also risky - due to the many side-effects they have.

Bill

markaren · 05/05/2012, 10:27 AM

Wow , Bill. That is some very good advice. Exercising your ears before a dive is good advice. I start clearing the first inch I am under water LOL. man reverse squeeze had always been a fear I never experienced.

reefinmo · 05/05/2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongo Shrimp

Does anyone have any other advise on this? I NEED to be able to scuba dive.

Bongo, I don't want to repeat things your ENT may have told you, but it is important to understand what you're trying to do when you equalize your ears. I know this sounds overly simplistic, but what happens when you descend through the water column is the pressure builds on the outside of your eardrum pushing in. The only means you have to counteract that, is to increase the pressure on the other side of your eardrum by forcing air up your Eustachian Tube to equalize the pressure on both sides of your eardrum. So your Eustachian Tube HAS to be open, but its not. It's closed. If it was open, the pressure would have equalized without you having to do anything.

So how do you open up a closed Eustachian Tube? To answer that, you have to know why it is closed. You could have a physiological problem, but your ENT said you were OK. You could also have a medical condition (cold, allergies, etc.) to cause temporary congestion in the tube itself. I would caution you very strongly against using medicine or nose spray to treat this condition so you can dive for the very reason mention above. Reverse blocks can be minor discomfort or a very serious injury depending on a variety of factors. It's not worth getting injured over. Now, if you're like me and have seasonal allergies and take medicine about 10 months a year like I do, you have to make a judgment each day if it is safe to dive. This is where you have to be familiar with your medical condition and as you gain experience diving, you'll know those days when you have to say you can't dive. And those days do come.

Now let's talk about the most common reasons people in the water have closed Eustachian Tubes and what to do about them. One that is often overlooked is equipment issues. A hood or neckline of a wesuit can push in on that place in your neck where the Eustachian Tube goes up to the ear. Proper fitting gear is important here, or you can try pulling out on the hood/wetsuit so your neck is clear. But the most common reason is pressure (external or internal) in or on your neck causing the blockage. External pressure can be caused just by the increased pressure you are under by descending thru the water column. Internal pressure is caused by the flexing of muscles in your neck that naturally happen when swimming on odd positions we don't often face on land or when being in cold/cool water, or even from stress. Here is where the hold your nose and blowing thing comes in, but that is just one of many methods. Actually, that doesn't work very well for me either. You mentioned moving your jaw, that's another one. Pretending you're yawning is a good one. What I do is swallow, or more accurately flexing all the same muscles I use when I swallow. What you're trying to do in these last 3 methods is flex muscles in your neck to move your Eustachian Tube around and hopefully open it up for a brief time. That's all you need, the pressure will equalize by itself at that point, you don't have to blow air up there. Understanding what is actually happening, can make it easier to correctly perform one of these techniques.

As someone mentioned, going slow helps a lot. The reason is, if you've descended a lot thru the water column, the pressure differential can get pretty large, and that just squeezes off the Eustachian Tube even more making it harder to open up. Surely, if you started at the surface and snorkeled straight down to 7-8 feet, it would be a lot harder than if you had cleared your ears 3-4 times on the way down to that depth.

In most cases, if there is not a physiological reason for it, a good instructor or divemaster should be able to work with you and advise you on your technique to overcome this issue. But definitely talk to them about it beforehand and let them know you are expecting to have trouble. Honestly, half the time people tell me that, I watch them closely in the pool and they have no problems because they are thinking about 100 other things and they just do it without thinking about it. I don't want to say its 95% mental or anything, because it's a very real problem, but I do think its partly mental sometimes.

I would go ahead and give it a shot at least. You'll never know for sure if you don't try, and its a great hobby. Trust me, its better than you even think it is.

Good luck!

billsreef · 05/07/2012, 07:13 PM

Equalize early and often. With starting at the surface not being too early

I'd also echo what Bill said about skipping the decongestants, for the very reason he said. Back in the college days, a friend of mine did the afrin thing before a dive. It wore off while she was still under, and she blew out an eardrum surfacing...on 30' dive. IMO if you need decongestants to clear on a given day, it's a day not to dive.

snorvich · 05/08/2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billsreef

Equalize early and often. With starting at the surface not being too early

I'd also echo what Bill said about skipping the decongestants, for the very reason he said. Back in the college days, a friend of mine did the afrin thing before a dive. It wore off while she was still under, and she blew out an eardrum surfacing...on 30' dive. IMO if you need decongestants to clear on a given day, it's a day not to dive.

I agree. I have had reverse squeezes and they are painful. When you get one, go down past the point you feel the reverse squeeze, pause for about a minute then come up VERY slowly. Any decongestant is a risk and no diving that day would be advisable.

aquavista99 · 05/27/2012, 09:57 PM

This advice is worth repeating again and again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by billsreef

IMO if you need decongestants to clear on a given day, it's a day not to dive.

Eric the half-bee · 05/27/2012, 10:07 PM

My experience is difficult to equalize also. R>L for whatever reason. Like more experienced RCers have commented, start equalizing early and near continuous on your descent. A buddy last dive outing recommended tilting the more difficult ear up while descending. I've never used decongestants prior to a dive and when I valsalva, I nearly **** my shorts.

tst400 · 05/28/2012, 12:25 AM

i too was very nervous as i have eara that pop constantly and sinuses i cant get clear,totally sucks!! i got certified and for aome reason when under water everything is great, come up clean and clear. i do sometimes have issues with equalizing the first time but then smooth sailing..

sent from my iphone slayer

Bongo Shrimp · 05/30/2012, 04:14 PM

Thanks everyone for the advice. Sorry I wasn't back in this thread earlier, I've been busy.

I think what reefinmo said in that long post (its a good thing) about knowing what you are trying to do when equalizing is a great bit of info. Just thinking about it already I feel like I might be better off even on a plane now that I understand really what is going on there.

I have seasonal allergies so that is what causes me to be congested. I usually don't use anything like afrin except if I'm going on a plane. If you guys are so adamant about it though I'll take your word and not use that method I guess. (Despite having heard other trustworthy, seasoned divers say there is nothing wrong with that and its a good way to go)

I will tell the trainer guys about it just in case but I would not be surprised if like mentioned above I just forget about it cause I'm thinking about other things. And I especially plan to take it slow.

billsreef · 05/30/2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongo Shrimp

(Despite having heard other trustworthy, seasoned divers say there is nothing wrong with that and its a good way to go)

Yup, there are certainly "seasoned" divers that use it. However, I've personally known divers that used it, and blown out ear drums. I've never known a diver to skip dive due to congestion and blow an ear drum

Quote:

I will tell the trainer guys about it just in case but I would not be surprised if like mentioned above I just forget about it cause I'm thinking about other things. And I especially plan to take it slow.

A good instructor will take that info into account and work with you on clearing

Tabasco · 05/31/2012, 10:18 AM

I have sensitive ears when I dive so I am very aware during the descent. Great advice to go slow and clear often. Also very important to go at your own pace. If the rest of the group diving is not having an issue but you are feeling some discomfort, stop descending and let them continue. I usually start ascending for about 5' or until I get some relief and stay there until I clear. Then I start descending again. Just communicate to your instructor/guide that you are ok and need to clear your ears. You will get the hand signals for this in the cert course.

In short, don't be shy about doing what you are comfortable with.

gotwake89 · 06/18/2012, 03:08 PM

I've found that there is a huge difference in being able to equalize while snorkeling and equalizing while diving. It is much more difficult to equalize while snorkeling. I'm not really sure why but I'm sure it has to do with being able to breathe when you try to equalize. Also, being able to equalize on an airplane does not necessarily correlate to equalizing while diving. I would recommend just getting in a pool or some shallow water with your dive equipment and trying it for yourself. For me though, equalizing while diving is easier than while snorkeling or on a plane.

slapshot · 06/19/2012, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotwake89

I've found that there is a huge difference in being able to equalize while snorkeling and equalizing while diving. It is much more difficult to equalize while snorkeling. I'm not really sure why but I'm sure it has to do with being able to breathe when you try to equalize. Also, being able to equalize on an airplane does not necessarily correlate to equalizing while diving. I would recommend just getting in a pool or some shallow water with your dive equipment and trying it for yourself. For me though, equalizing while diving is easier than while snorkeling or on a plane.

That is interesting, now that I think about it your right. I'm sure it has to do with the positive pressure coming from the regulator.

JEC11718 · 06/19/2012, 10:51 PM

ok...here is the easiest thing....they make a mask with a set of ear muffs that cover your ears and the mask has a tube attached to each muff. instant air pocket over your ears....I saw a diver using them at a spring here in FL last summer, He had huge problems but not after he started using the new mask w/ muffs. YOUR WELCOME!

05/04/2012, 08:50 PM	#1
Bongo Shrimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,368	I want to get certified but... my ears So this summer I was/am finally hoping to go get scuba certified however I have always been leery of this because I have trouble equalizing. I mean even when snorkeling and I want to dive down 5-7ft to see something up close I frequently get so much pressure/pain in my ears I have to go back up. BTW I went to an ENT Dr. just in case and he said I am perfectly fine, just sensitive. I have heard all the common ways to equalize such as holding your nose and blowing (doesn't work for me I have tried it on planes), moving your jaw around... and I have tried these but many times (on a plane at least) I still have trouble. I also have been told to use a nasal spray (which I use on planes) called afrin to help. Does anyone have any other advise on this? I NEED to be able to scuba dive. __________________ My Bongo Shrimp Want to Eat Your Starfish. Biocube 29g- LED SPS Reef Biocube 29g- Seahorse tank 25g Tidepool Follow me on Twitter! @ArchetypeMarine \| See my YouTube channel at my homepage.

05/07/2012, 07:13 PM	#7
billsreef Moderator 10 & Over Club Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY/North Miami Posts: 33,302	Equalize early and often. With starting at the surface not being too early I'd also echo what Bill said about skipping the decongestants, for the very reason he said. Back in the college days, a friend of mine did the afrin thing before a dive. It wore off while she was still under, and she blew out an eardrum surfacing...on 30' dive. IMO if you need decongestants to clear on a given day, it's a day not to dive. __________________ Bill "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) Current Tank Info: Far too many tanks according to my wife, LOL.

05/27/2012, 10:07 PM	#10
Eric the half-bee Passer of gasses Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Space Coast, FL Posts: 837	My experience is difficult to equalize also. R>L for whatever reason. Like more experienced RCers have commented, start equalizing early and near continuous on your descent. A buddy last dive outing recommended tilting the more difficult ear up while descending. I've never used decongestants prior to a dive and when I valsalva, I nearly **** my shorts. __________________ MOLON LABE - King Leonidas I A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have. – Barry Goldwater Current Tank Info: Semi agressive reef-400 gal.-8 tangs,2 rabbit fish,zebra moray,blue ribbon eel,Janss' pipe,pair bangaiis,wrasse,tomato clown,maroon clown

05/30/2012, 04:14 PM	#12
Bongo Shrimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,368	Thanks everyone for the advice. Sorry I wasn't back in this thread earlier, I've been busy. I think what reefinmo said in that long post (its a good thing) about knowing what you are trying to do when equalizing is a great bit of info. Just thinking about it already I feel like I might be better off even on a plane now that I understand really what is going on there. I have seasonal allergies so that is what causes me to be congested. I usually don't use anything like afrin except if I'm going on a plane. If you guys are so adamant about it though I'll take your word and not use that method I guess. (Despite having heard other trustworthy, seasoned divers say there is nothing wrong with that and its a good way to go) I will tell the trainer guys about it just in case but I would not be surprised if like mentioned above I just forget about it cause I'm thinking about other things. And I especially plan to take it slow. __________________ My Bongo Shrimp Want to Eat Your Starfish. Biocube 29g- LED SPS Reef Biocube 29g- Seahorse tank 25g Tidepool Follow me on Twitter! @ArchetypeMarine \| See my YouTube channel at my homepage.

05/04/2012, 08:57 PM	#2
slapshot Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan Posts: 1,593	One word.......Afrin. Scuba divers friend. One squirt in each nostril 1 hour before you go. Never a problem then. GET CERTIFIED!!!!

05/05/2012, 04:46 AM	#3
markaren Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Clermont ,Florida Posts: 610	Boils Law is basically increased depth, increased pressure, decreased volume. Decreased depth, decrease pressure , increased Volume. So on a plane you would actually need to chew gun or move your jaw as mentioned for air to "exit" the Eustachian tube. This would be opposite of diving (in fact you are ascending further into less pressure (decreased pressure) plugging nose and sucking in with nose theoretically would help on a plane. If I have a certain congestion in my sinuses., I have severe pain even at one foot in a pool. I live in Florida so I swim all the time and this always catches me be surprise because I do not feel sick at all. In fact I always think when this happens that it would be a bummer to plan a dive trip and have this happen. I am not aware of how a doctor can actually see your inner Eustachian tube with a regular visit. An ear specialist might be able to determine the issue. If you have never been able to clear your nose (like right now I plugged my nose and gently blew and made a crackly noise) then you may be one of the rare ones that have an ear issue. I remember learning about this in my advanced class.

05/05/2012, 07:22 AM	#4
BBraker Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 76	I was told by my ENT that I should not dive due to problems with my eustachien tubes (spelling?)...that was 40 years, 350 hours of diving and a PADI divemaster cert. ago. I do need to take care though; if I'm conjested, I start clearing my ears (valsalva maneuver) before I even go underwater and then I clear constantly for the first ten feet of the dive. I won't use ANY deconjestant though - I once took pseudafed because I needed to do a dive and I had a cold. I got to the bottom o.k., but at the end of the dive, when I got to about 5 feet of the surface, I got a severe reverse squeeze and my eardrum ruptured. The flood of cold water caused vertigo and I sank back down to around 15' before I could get control. Luckily I kept my regulator in my mouth! I can only presume that the medication wore off during the dive. Another time I used a different deconjestant (don't recall what type) and did a group dive to 120' off New Providence. I could not go deeper than 105' - the nitrogen narcosis was so bad, I presume in reaction to the drug I had taken, because I've never had that problem before or since. I should add that this was all many years ago and they have much better meds now - but I was always taught; if you need a drug to manage a dive, don't dive. Off topic, but diving with scolpolomine patches is also risky - due to the many side-effects they have. Bill

05/05/2012, 10:27 AM	#5
markaren Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Clermont ,Florida Posts: 610	Wow , Bill. That is some very good advice. Exercising your ears before a dive is good advice. I start clearing the first inch I am under water LOL. man reverse squeeze had always been a fear I never experienced.

05/28/2012, 12:25 AM	#11
tst400 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: phoenix az Posts: 184	i too was very nervous as i have eara that pop constantly and sinuses i cant get clear,totally sucks!! i got certified and for aome reason when under water everything is great, come up clean and clear. i do sometimes have issues with equalizing the first time but then smooth sailing.. sent from my iphone slayer

05/31/2012, 10:18 AM	#14
Tabasco Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 116	I have sensitive ears when I dive so I am very aware during the descent. Great advice to go slow and clear often. Also very important to go at your own pace. If the rest of the group diving is not having an issue but you are feeling some discomfort, stop descending and let them continue. I usually start ascending for about 5' or until I get some relief and stay there until I clear. Then I start descending again. Just communicate to your instructor/guide that you are ok and need to clear your ears. You will get the hand signals for this in the cert course. In short, don't be shy about doing what you are comfortable with.

06/18/2012, 03:08 PM	#15
gotwake89 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Rochester, MI Posts: 78	I've found that there is a huge difference in being able to equalize while snorkeling and equalizing while diving. It is much more difficult to equalize while snorkeling. I'm not really sure why but I'm sure it has to do with being able to breathe when you try to equalize. Also, being able to equalize on an airplane does not necessarily correlate to equalizing while diving. I would recommend just getting in a pool or some shallow water with your dive equipment and trying it for yourself. For me though, equalizing while diving is easier than while snorkeling or on a plane.

06/19/2012, 10:51 PM	#17
JEC11718 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 93	ok...here is the easiest thing....they make a mask with a set of ear muffs that cover your ears and the mask has a tube attached to each muff. instant air pocket over your ears....I saw a diver using them at a spring here in FL last summer, He had huge problems but not after he started using the new mask w/ muffs. YOUR WELCOME!