Why the fascination with pH?

[disc1]

It seems like every other post around here is someone tinkering with pH. And not about making big adjustments, no we're fretting over a half a pH unit in a system that is dang near neutral. Do people not understand? A change of pH from 7.5 to 8.5 is only a couple micromolar change in the actual OH- concentration. I don't see how that is going to affect living systems a whole lot.

Is it just that people don't understand what it means to be operating in a buffered system? That it's the buffer concentration and not the actual pH that has the effect? I mean in FW tanks, a change in pH usually goes with a change in salt concentration which can be a problem with fish. But SW is buffered, and we know our salt content. Why are we fussing with pH?

It is as confusing to me as if people were on here trying to find the right thermostats to keep the temperature in their tanks at exactly 79.855 degrees F and getting bent out of shape if it got to 79.860.

Is there something I'm missing? Should I be fretting every little hundredth of a point of pH in my tank? Is there more to this story that I'm not picking up?

[Whitebeam]

Thank you! I thought it was just me!

I haven't measured the pH of my tank for at least 6 months and don't intend to in the foreseeable future - especially when I'm running at 10.5dKH. I know that at that level of alkalinity the pH will essentially look after itself, so why should I bother calibrating probes and fussing over checking it when I have better things to do with my time

Peter

[Dre59]

LOL!!! Its the new cool thing...

[Indymann99]

Worrying about it helps sell Ph probes.

[Meanmike]

The test kits do a really good job at collecting dust.

[TucanSam007]

I let my pH swing from 8.2 to 8.5. I don't really care too much about the values, it's the swing that just helps me know if my dosing gets out of wack. Other then that I don't understand why pH is stressed upon so heavily. Could be a lot of freshwater guys that are just coming into the hobby that think the pH needs absolutely flat which does more harm then good I believe.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To be fair, oceanographers are very worried over the decline in calcification rates in the oceans as pH drops from 8.2 to 7.9, so aquarists get worried too.

[naterealbig]

@disc1 - Aren't most of the threads having to do with pH more along the lines on how to raise it, rather than being concerned with the pH swings themselves? I agree to a point; many folks come to the chemistry forum, and want to know why the pH in their tank is at 8.2 instead of 8.3. There are however, aquarists (like myself) who are constantly battling to keep their pH above 7.6.

Dr. Holmes-Farley states in his article Low pH: Causes and Cures that " In my opinion, the pH range from 7.8 to 8.5 is an acceptable range for reef aquaria". It has also been suggested that a pH below 7.6 will negatively affect the calcification of stony corals. With most of the pH questions being centered around what (I think) most chemists would consider a detrimentally low pH, there is a warranted concern. And if you ask me, I think that it is too often dismissed as "user" or "equipment" error here.

My tank is currently running between 7.56 and 7.82 (morning and evening respectively). I have tried different probes and different test kits. My apartment is about 800 square feet, and I see a marked decline in pH any time someone comes over and stays longer than 2 hours. My low pH worries me, and I think others with chronically low pH should be worried too.

Perhaps the difference is, I have read Dr. Holmes-Farley's article, I understand why my pH is low, and I know what to do to fix it ( I just haven't done what needs to be done yet ). Is the real reason you are annoyed because people aren't doing their homework before asking the question?

I would love to hear a chemist state confidently that a pH between 7.5 to 8.5 is an acceptable pH range. Make it a sticky at the top of the forum. I would stop worrying about it so much then!

[funny718]

Originally Posted by naterealbig

@disc1 - Aren't most of the threads having to do with pH more along the lines on how to raise it, rather than being concerned with the pH swings themselves? I agree to a point; many folks come to the chemistry forum, and want to know why the pH in their tank is at 8.2 instead of 8.3. There are however, aquarists (like myself) who are constantly battling to keep their pH above 7.6.

Dr. Holmes-Farley states in his article Low pH: Causes and Cures that " In my opinion, the pH range from 7.8 to 8.5 is an acceptable range for reef aquaria". It has also been suggested that a pH below 7.6 will negatively affect the calcification of stony corals. With most of the pH questions being centered around what (I think) most chemists would consider a detrimentally low pH, there is a warranted concern. And if you ask me, I think that it is too often dismissed as "user" or "equipment" error here.

My tank is currently running between 7.56 and 7.82 (morning and evening respectively). I have tried different probes and different test kits. My apartment is about 800 square feet, and I see a marked decline in pH any time someone comes over and stays longer than 2 hours. My low pH worries me, and I think others with chronically low pH should be worried too.

Perhaps the difference is, I have read Dr. Holmes-Farley's article, I understand why my pH is low, and I know what to do to fix it ( I just haven't done what needs to be done yet ). Is the real reason you are annoyed because people aren't doing their homework before asking the question?

I would love to hear a chemist state confidently that a pH between 7.5 to 8.5 is an acceptable pH range. Make it a sticky at the top of the forum. I would stop worrying about it so much then!

Same here

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't make the claim that pH 7.5 is OK since it is low enough for aragonite coral skeletons to slowly dissolve.

[funny718]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

I wouldn't make the claim that pH 7.5 is OK since it is low enough for aragonite coral skeletons to slowly dissolve.

Thanx randy as always

[AquamanE]

subscribed. I always wonder about this since I see no ill effect on the inhabitants.

[naterealbig]

Do you often see your pH below 7.6?

[BigBoi5680]

Sooooo does this mean that I DON'T have to get a pH probe with my controller!?

[disc1]

Originally Posted by BigBoi5680

Sooooo does this mean that I DON'T have to get a pH probe with my controller!?

I wouldn't necessarily say all that, but I also wouldn't get real excited about the number I see from the meter either. You still want to know if you've messed up your dosing or something. But there's not a certain magic pH number that is going to work any better than anything else within reasonable limits. And higher doesn't always mean better.

[karsseboom]

I agree its annoying that noobs are chasing there ph all day and starting threads about it.

[funny718]

Ok question for randy, trying to raise my ph using kalk that sit at 7.50 during the night and during lights on highest it goes is 7.77. So my question is how much kalk is to much? Right now I have a 2.5 gallon ato with 2tsp of kalk that's not doing anything should I add more, and if so how much more. How much could my ph rise safely each time my ato kicks on about .02 more less

[karsseboom]

Originally Posted by funny718

Ok question for randy, trying to raise my ph using kalk that sit at 7.50 during the night and during lights on highest it goes is 7.77. So my question is how much kalk is to much? Right now I have a 2.5 gallon ato with 2tsp of kalk that's not doing anything should I add more, and if so how much more. How much could my ph rise safely each time my ato kicks on about .02 more less

Are you sure your ph is that low? I would double check with somthing else. Those apex ph probes can be off if they get old.

[pledosophy]

Originally Posted by disc1

I wouldn't necessarily say all that, but I also wouldn't get real excited about the number I see from the meter either. You still want to know if you've messed up your dosing or something. But there's not a certain magic pH number that is going to work any better than anything else within reasonable limits. And higher doesn't always mean better.

I myself and several other reefers have noticed significant decline of hair algae in environments where the pH is consistently above 8.3

JME

[funny718]

Originally Posted by karsseboom

Are you sure your ph is that low? I would double check with somthing else. Those apex ph probes can be off if they get old.

Yup brand new probe and calibrated ready to rock. My old one was all over the place just picked one up on Friday

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by funny718

Ok question for randy, trying to raise my ph using kalk that sit at 7.50 during the night and during lights on highest it goes is 7.77. So my question is how much kalk is to much? Right now I have a 2.5 gallon ato with 2tsp of kalk that's not doing anything should I add more, and if so how much more. How much could my ph rise safely each time my ato kicks on about .02 more less

If the pH is that low, there won't be too much (based on pH) even if you replace all evaporated water with limewater. The only way to know if it is too much calcium and alkalinity is to monitor alkalinity over time (say, 2 weeks) when using it.

Just add it slowly.

[tmz]

FWIW, I monitor ph and keep it in th 8.1 to 8.4 range. NSW is around 8.2.

I do not chase it with buffers since ,imo, constancy in alkalinity shouldn't and needn't be sacrificed to get a certain ph number.

If the alkalinity is adjusted for it's own merits it will effect ph , however, most of the effect is transient as more CO2 enters the water from the surrounding air. This equilibration off sets most of the ph gain leaving the much of the increased alkalinity.

As Randy noted low ph is a concern in calcification and the dissolution of calcium carbonate including skeletal mass. It may also make the process of calcification more difficult as corals use bicarbonate and precipitate calcium carbonate and extra H+ proton is squeezed out . If ph is low , more H in the water may make this more difficult.
I have also noticed certain nuisance algaes and dinoflagellates decline with higher ph,anecdotally.

High ph can be a problem as well, in terms the potential for abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate.

So, imo, it's worth monitoring and correcting via methods like: extra photsynthesis (macroalge refugia, more corals), enhanced air exchange via surface agitation, fresh air , CO2 scrubbers and using calcium hydroxide ( limeater, aka kalk) in lieu of other supplements at least in part.

[funny718]

Thanx guys as always