Tank weight floor support question

[NYinfamous2k2]

Hi, hopefully I can get your guys advice on this. here is my situation I am on a second floor apartment of a house and have a 120 gal 48x24x24 tank with a 40 gal breeder sump currently in my bedroom, (running for a yr). My girl and I would very much rather put the tank in the living room. The area it will be going on is an outside load bearing wall right where the living room seperats from the kitchen. Here in lies the problem. I alway like to put my tanks perpendicular to the beams but in this case the beams will be running parallel with the tank but there is one main cross beam ,which is perpendicular, That I would center the tank over. So it would be, the tank sitting over the perpendicular cross beem but the sides of the tank would have normal beams going parallel with it (that attatch to the cross beam. I probably made the sound way more complicated then it is. what do you guys think.

Thanks
Rick

[bemenaker]

What is the base of you stand like? Is it a large continuous bottom, or multiple feet? You could lay 2 2x4's or 2x6's on the floor to span the joists if you're that concerned.

[NYinfamous2k2]

my stand is a DIY wood stand so it has a continuous bottom, so that would be the same thing was laying the 2x4s, I just dont know if that 2000 ish pounds will be ok on that one main beam,

[James77]

How big is this cross beam? Is this the/a main beam for the house?

If it is what I picturing, you would be fine. In my rental house where I used to live, there was one huge beam running in the middle that was the support for all of the joists. I would have loved to put my tank right over that....

[NYinfamous2k2]

Originally Posted by James77

How big is this cross beam? Is this the/a main beam for the house?

If it is what I picturing, you would be fine. In my rental house where I used to live, there was one huge beam running in the middle that was the support for all of the joists. I would have loved to put my tank right over that....

I opened up the ceiling downstairs and from what I can see it looks like at least two 2x4's stacked up

[Alex T.]

I don't know what the above statement means. I hope it's not two 2x4 joists. Not only would that be illegal in all 50 states, but wouldn't support much of anything set on it.

Are you talking about the top of the baring wall having two 2x4's? If the joists are 2x10's sitting on a load baring wall and you want to straddle the load baring wall but still keep the tank parallel with the joists you should be fine. I think this is what you're saying, am I right?

The only thing I would be concerned about is equal settling on each side of the baring wall. I'd put a 6 foot level on that area and see just how off it may be on either side of where the baring wall rests. Many baring walls will have a hump in the floor above them as the rest of the joist system around them settles. If this is the case, you must shim the ends very tightly. It's the humps in the floor that cause most problems, not the depressions. A humped floor in the middle of your tank could cause a catastrophic failure of the aquarium. Make sure you're plumb, level and shimmed securely in all the loose spots. I'd use the plastic shims instead of wood ones too so there's never any question.

HTH

[reefling]

i agree with alex. that would be illegal in 50 states. there should be 2x6's if i remember right. I would not do anything but perpendicular with a setup that size. with a 55g or something small it would probably be fine, but you are asking half the amount of floor joists to contribute double the load support by running with the joists. are they spaced 16" where you live? i forget if it is 12 or 16 as i have not been in the construction business for about 9 or 10 years now.

[James77]

Originally Posted by NYinfamous2k2

I opened up the ceiling downstairs and from what I can see it looks like at least two 2x4's stacked up

Thats definitely not what I was picturing. What I was picturing was your tank straddling a main support beam of the house. 2-2x4's are not that. The main support beam in my old place is a 12"x12" beam that is 40 feet long and supported by 3 brick footings.

Any chance of posting a photo of what you have opened up in the ceiling?

[Alex T.]

Actually, if the 2x4's are the joist system, someone has a lot of explaining to do. They can't even support the weight of the roof safely, let alone more floors above. I doubt this is what the OP is referring to as being made of 2x4's. A 2x6 floor system is not legal on an outside deck, and really not code anywhere near me. Subfloor systems everywhere I've worked (I'm a contractor) are 2x10 minimum, and when that span is greater than 12 feet, it's normally 2x12 or engineered beams like Silent Floor that you see in many new cookie cut home developments.

NYInfamous, if you could snap a picture and let us see what you're referring to as being the 2x4 material it would be much easier to give an accurate assessment on how to proceed. Many times clients will tell me things and make references using construction terms that are not applicable, and when first hearing them I'm alarmed. I've learned to calm down until I see what they're referring to, which is most times much less a problem than they originally made it out to be.

Understand that not even a child's tree house should be built with a 2x4 floor system. The weight of the roof alone (which would be 2x6 minimum) would be enough to make it buckle, and in a worst case scenario...fail.

[lighthouze08]

he might be talking about the open web truss joist, technically those are made out of 2x4 and have triangular 2x4 running between them to spread the load

[BeanAnimal]

Originally Posted by Alex T.

Actually, if the 2x4's are the joist system, someone has a lot of explaining to do. They can't even support the weight of the roof safely, let alone more floors above. I doubt this is what the OP is referring to as being made of 2x4's.

But floor trusses can be made of 2x4 material. Whithout a photo, we have no clue what he is talking about.

A 2x6 floor system is not legal on an outside deck, and really not code anywhere near me.

That is not correct. As long as the joists meet the span table requirements for the load in question, they can be used. The allowable span for ANY joist system is a function of the load (both live and dead) and the joist strength and spacing. My deck far exceeds code, and could hold an Abrams tank... it is constructed with 2x6 joists with roughly a 6' span and 12" spacing

Subfloor systems everywhere I've worked (I'm a contractor) are 2x10 minimum, and when that span is greater than 12 feet, it's normally 2x12 or engineered beams like Silent Floor that you see in many new cookie cut home developments.

See above The architect and engineer may have specified 2x10 for the SPAN and SPACING in question. It may meet or exceed code, but that does not mean that 2x8 or 2x6 joists are illegal

Understand that not even a child's tree house should be built with a 2x4 floor system. The weight of the roof alone (which would be 2x6 minimum) would be enough to make it buckle, and in a worst case scenario...fail.

Many (most) roof systems are built with 2x4 material, stick built, or trussed

A 2x4 floor in a "tree house" is fairly ambiguous but I imagine in most cases the short span of 2 -3 feet and 3 60 pound kids is not going to be a concern. Falling out of the tree on the way up the 2x4 steps nailed into the tree with 10d nails... now that is a concern.

I don't mean to sound so nit-piky, but I hate to see poor or partial information passed on.

[Alex T.]

^ I think you assume too much. I clearly stated that we need pictures, and you quoted it as well. As for 2 x 4 trusses, this is not what the OP said. He said he saw 2x4's stacked. As for a 2 x 4 joist system, we'd be talking about one heck of a small room now wouldn't we? I doubt someone would go through the trouble spanning them, so I doubt they are 2x4's. As for 2 x 6 span on a deck, that's one small deck without some ridiculously close OC 's (on center). Around here we call that a porch. As for roofs being 2x4's, I know that they use 2x4's in trusses. We are not talking about truss systems. Many things "can" be done. I don't know what it's like in Pittsburgh, but I've never seen a 2 x 4 roof framed out on anything other than a shed. Maybe because we're closer to the shore and see noreasters and hurricanes more often it's not done. Saying that there is 2 x 4 material in a roof structure is going to give the OP a false sense of what you and I are talking about. I've never seen a 2 x 4 used on a roof for anything other than a truss. If you have, I'd like to see a picture and the span of such a dwelling.

Again, until there's a visual...but saying that it's partial information or incorrect is a bit of a stretch don't ya think? I don't think that anybody who posts on any thread gives the permutations of every possible scenario when they offer advice. I've never been called back to a job for a failure or poor workmanship. Maybe that counts for something.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally Posted by Alex T.

^ I think you assume too much. I clearly stated that we need pictures, and you quoted it as well. As for 2 x 4 trusses, this is not what the OP said. He said he saw 2x4's stacked.

As you yourself pointed out, many folks often times don't use the right terminology. The point was, it could be anything and most of us know that it won't be 2x4 "joists".

As for 2 x 6 span on a deck, that's one small deck without some ridiculously close OC 's (on center). Around here we call that a porch.

There is no need to be flip. My deck is 16' x 36' with 2x6 joists and roughly 6' spans 16" OC. There are (3) 36' beams that are comprised of (3) laminated 2"x6"s and they rest on 21 sonotube piers that reach a depth of about 4' on 18"x3' 12" thick footers. It FAR exceeds both local, and BOCA codes for live and dead loads here in Western PA and was built with a higher than required live load calculation. That is, dead load + both regular snow loads and a drifting snow loads + increased live load. My deck joist system has a higher safety factor than most people living rooms. I know because, I engineered it using accepted engineering load calculations for wood joists of the species used in my build. I also built it, so I know that there were no shortcuts used in materials or construction.

As for roofs being 2x4's, I know that they use 2x4's in trusses. We are not talking about truss systems.

The point is (was) that we don't know what the OP is describing and that generalizations like "2x6 joists are illegal even for a deck", don't help anybody and only serve to spread misinformation.