Algae Scrubber Basics

[Eurobeaner]

thanks!

the hinge consists of a piece of acrylic on edge, that has been rounded, and 2 pieces of acrylic on the bottom of the tray to keep it from moving back and forth.


heres it in the sump.



and video. still have changes to make, like put a glob of silicone down so the tray isnt loud when it dumps, and also get some loc-line for it so the water does not go everywhere like it is now. lol.

[one clownfish]

I have all of my LEDs and started the build today. My question is, what is the ratio of 660nm to 630nm? I've read the recommendation for red to blue is 7:1 but nothing for the red to red ratio. I'm putting (2-3) 420nm in there too. I've been using the 2700k 40watt cfl's and there not growing anything, after 2weeks. The screen is green all over when I clean it but turns brown/black after a few days. My lights are 3.5" away from the screen, are they to close and burning the alage causing it to turn brown/black?

[srusso]

Originally Posted by one clownfish

I have all of my LEDs and started the build today. My question is, what is the ratio of 660nm to 630nm? I've read the recommendation for red to blue is 7:1 but nothing for the red to red ratio. I'm putting (2-3) 420nm in there too. I've been using the 2700k 40watt cfl's and there not growing anything, after 2weeks. The screen is green all over when I clean it but turns brown/black after a few days. My lights are 3.5" away from the screen, are they to close and burning the alage causing it to turn brown/black?

Good growth can take about a month or longer depending on the available nutrients in your tank. It should be cleaned every seven days even in the beginning. If you have other filter methods it can extend this even longer.

That said, what size screen, how much are you feeding?

As for the LEDs red 660 and 630... I think your playing in uncharted territory.. That said, a mix of both reds should in theory help...? In the end, you tell us. Thank you for contributing! Keep us posted!

[JHawlz9989]

Alright guys I'm planning an ATS for my personal tank (20g) as well, and I would like you guys to double check everything and make sure I'm doing it right.

I measured 80 gph from the overflow, which gives me around 2 1/4" of screen width to play with. I was going to make it 6" long, lit from one side. Right now, I have:
-3 Phillips 660nm and 2 Cree 630 nm
-Dimmable nano driver w/ potentiometer
-1.4"x12" heatsink. (All of this is from RapidLED if you're not sure what some of it is.)

Does the driver take care of the AC/DC voltage switch? It looks like it takes 100-240 AC input, but I'm not 100% certain.

Where do you guys get your diffusers from? Since the screen is so narrow and with 3W chips, does that necessitate putting them closer and using a diffuser? I would also think the diffuser would be good since I'm using two different wavelengths...

Thanks in advance,

Josh

[Floyd R Turbo]

I use the Plaskolite Clear Prismatic Ceiling Panel from Lowe's, I believe it's this one:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_18427-1638-1...RL=&facetInfo=

Just make sure it's not "frosted" or whitish in any way, the one I buy has a white & green sticker on it.

As far as the driver, any LED driver should take universal voltage input and convert this to DC current, that is the basic principle of all constant current LED drivers.

About the screen, 2.25 x 6 = 13.5 call it 12, single sided means it's a 1/2 cube/day scrubber, and for that you would want all 12-13 watts (CFL) on one side, or half to equal (rated) wattage of LEDs, so that would be 2 to 4 3W LEDs. So with that taken into consideration, I would say you would be fine with 3 or 4 reds, 5 may be a bit much. But who is to say for sure, it might work great for you, if it's too much light, add another diffuser, or reduce hours.

But yeah I would put close and diffuse

[one clownfish]

I just finished my Led build (9) 660nm, (6) 630nm, (2) 420nm and (2) 455nm all on a MW lpc-35-700. I wasn't sure if the driver would fire all of them, I'm pushing it to the max plus a little bit. I'm replacing (2) 40 watt cfl's, they've been running 2.5 weeks, 18hrs/day. I'm getting a little growth on the scrubber screen but nothing great. My question is, how many hours a day should I run the Led fixture and how far away should the fixture be from the screen?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Sounds like too much for the driver, not sure what Vf and If you're getting, so I would check that. However if they are firing then you are probably getting enough light to compare/replace the CFLs. Is this all on one side? Pictures would help a lot.

[stevetcg]

I just rebuilt my skimmer to use the overflow feed instead of a pump (which constantly had to be cleaned or flow would die). My screen is 6 wide by 8 long. I am pushing as much through it as it will take - the slotted tube has an overflow so anything that cant get out the slot goes through a seperate filter.

I was lighting it with 1 23w CFL per side, but have decided to switch to LEDs. I accidentally ordered the 620nm reds.

I feed about 1 cube every 2-3 days.

Am I ok?

[srusso]

Originally Posted by stevetcg

I just rebuilt my skimmer to use the overflow feed instead of a pump (which constantly had to be cleaned or flow would die). My screen is 6 wide by 8 long. I am pushing as much through it as it will take - the slotted tube has an overflow so anything that cant get out the slot goes through a seperate filter.

I was lighting it with 1 23w CFL per side, but have decided to switch to LEDs. I accidentally ordered the 620nm reds.

I feed about 1 cube every 2-3 days.

Am I ok?

I think the 620nm should grow well enough. You should consider feeding at least once a day, but that said, I have no clue what's in your tank... So grain of salt...

[stevetcg]

Originally Posted by srusso

I think the 620nm should grow well enough. You should consider feeding at least once a day, but that said, I have no clue what's in your tank... So grain of salt...

A 1 inch maroon clownfish, a mandarin goby, 2 3-4 inch BTAs and then assorted zoa, leathers and LPS, in a 44 pentagon with 8gal fuge, LED lit.

Edit: I do feed every day, but it comes to < 1/2 cube a day.

[Floyd R Turbo]

stevetcg, your screen is pretty large - sized for the tank vs for feeding. How is your growth? More importantly, how does your tank look, and how does the water test?

[srusso]

Originally Posted by stevetcg

A 1 inch maroon clownfish, a mandarin goby, 2 3-4 inch BTAs and then assorted zoa, leathers and LPS, in a 44 pentagon with 8gal fuge, LED lit.

Edit: I do feed every day, but it comes to < 1/2 cube a day.

Oh I see, thank you for clarifying.

[stevetcg]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

stevetcg, your screen is pretty large - sized for the tank vs for feeding. How is your growth? More importantly, how does your tank look, and how does the water test?

Water tests perfect - tank looks like garbage. Ive only been running this scrubber for 2 weeks. I had neglected my tank before, went on vacation, overfed, ignored the scrubber and basically crashed the tank. Im in recovery mode now. I rebuilt the scrubber with a new screen and plumbing. I am swapping out CFLs for the LEDs today. There is some decent growth on the screen already, dark green, with the CFLs.

[stevetcg]

So... good news bad news... the bad news... as I was hooking up my LEDs in the sump I guess I got the connector wet. When I plugged it in, spark, flash, pop, LEDs all dead.

Good news... I can replace them with the 660nm now. :/

[Reg the reefer]

Ok forgive the NOOB in the room but do folks running ATS still run protein skimmers, ozone, GFO, and/or carbon dosing? I am still of the mindset of not giving up my protein skimmer and ozone however I would like to start controlling phosphates with ATS and a larger refugium.

[Floyd R Turbo]

It's mixed bag, some running only a scrubber, many still run a skimmer (it will tend to skim less/lighter over time, and you may not need to run it 24/7), usually GFO gets ditched once P is under control but depending on the specific situation (GFO also takes the P out that algae needs to grow, so too much can inhibit screen growth, leading to N), some GFO may be needed (much smaller amount, run for much shorter time), ozone is fine AFAIK, carbon dosing/biopellets are sort of the opposite on the filtration spectrum and tend to compete with scrubbers, but you can do both

[srusso]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

It's mixed bag, some running only a scrubber, many still run a skimmer (it will tend to skim less/lighter over time, and you may not need to run it 24/7), usually GFO gets ditched once P is under control but depending on the specific situation (GFO also takes the P out that algae needs to grow, so too much can inhibit screen growth, leading to N), some GFO may be needed (much smaller amount, run for much shorter time), ozone is fine AFAIK, carbon dosing/biopellets are sort of the opposite on the filtration spectrum and tend to compete with scrubbers, but you can do both

Well said

+1

[Reg the reefer]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

It's mixed bag, some running only a scrubber, many still run a skimmer (it will tend to skim less/lighter over time, and you may not need to run it 24/7), usually GFO gets ditched once P is under control but depending on the specific situation (GFO also takes the P out that algae needs to grow, so too much can inhibit screen growth, leading to N), some GFO may be needed (much smaller amount, run for much shorter time), ozone is fine AFAIK, carbon dosing/biopellets are sort of the opposite on the filtration spectrum and tend to compete with scrubbers, but you can do both

Thanks, for your reply.

[percula99]

I have been running my waterfall type ATS (which I need to stick with due to space limitations) for over a year now. I get strong algae growth, but of the dark matted variety, not a green hair algae. I clean the screen once a week. My screen is 13X13, lit both sides with 150 watt 2700K CFL bulbs. I use a Red Sea skimmer pump rated for 525 GPH, although I think it is only giving me 300 GPH after my last test today. My nitrates are between 20-40, depending on how long it has been since my last water change, and phosphates are around 0.25.

A year and a half ago I cooked my LR due to soaring phos and nitrate readings. Once finished both were reading 0. That is when I implemented my ATS. Over time readings have slowly creeped up, even with the use of my ATS. Is my screen too big, not enough flow, low lighting?? Any suggestions at all would be appreciated.

[percula99]

I forgot to mention I feed 2.5 sheets of nori per day as well as 3 cubes. The sheets are 7.5 X 7.5 = 56.25 sq. in. X 2.5 sheets = 140 sq. in. I minus 30% because there is that much stuck in the veggie clip that the fish don't eat which equals 98 sq. in. That would be equivalent to 10 cubes, plus the 3 cubes equalls an equivalent of 13 cuber per day.

I have read through the guideleines but I find it confusing, which is why I am askling. Sorry...and thanks if you can help.

[srusso]

without seeing it, sounds like a lighting issue. Can you post a picture?

[percula99]

Hopefully a picture will help. Here's two, front and back of sump. I am not a great photographer, so let me know if you need more. In the second picture you can see the pipe on the right coming up from the pump and taking a 90° turn to go horizontally across to the waterfall. The lights are on 18 hours/day on a reverse cycle from the main tank lights. The screens were cleaned a couple of days ago.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Are you using 150W equivalent lamps? It looks to me like those are 23W actual, if that is the case, you're way underlit. You're right on for the screen size calculation. But you would want a total of 169W on the screen, minimum. Also your flow would need to be 13x35=455 GPH so that may be contributing as well.

It looks to me like you need more flow and more light, both in total and evenness across the whole screen - because you're only hitting the middle of the screen.

[percula99]

Yes, I am using 150 watt equivalent bulbs, but they are 43 watt actual. When you say I would want a total of 169W on the screen, minimum, do you mean per side, or total for both sides?

The water flow is falling across the entire screen. It may not look like it in the picture, but it is. There wouldn't be algae across the entire screen if it wasn't. I am retired now and trying to keep aquarium costs down. Gotta keep the wife happy. I have a MAG 3.5 which is only 350 GPH. If I cut the screen down to match this flow, would this work?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by percula99

Yes, I am using 150 watt equivalent bulbs, but they are 43 watt actual. When you say I would want a total of 169W on the screen, minimum, do you mean per side, or total for both sides?

You go by actual, not equivalent wattage. Generally, you want total wattage to match or exceed screen dimensions. This means 170/2=85W per side, minimum. So I would add another 43W on each side. To get this to work in the space you have, you might need to cut the reflectors so that they can overlap like a figure 8. You might need to also back them off about 1". That will help green it up. You are using nice big reflectors so that is also good. Nice setup.

Originally Posted by percula99

The water flow is falling across the entire screen. It may not look like it in the picture, but it is. There wouldn't be algae across the entire screen if it wasn't. I am retired now and trying to keep aquarium costs down. Gotta keep the wife happy. I have a MAG 3.5 which is only 350 GPH. If I cut the screen down to match this flow, would this work?

You could do that, but at the expense of losing filtration. The water flowing evenly across the screen is important, so you have that going for you. I ran one scrubber with 20 GPH/in and it did relatively well, but when I increased the water flow it grow tremendously better. When you increase the light, the lower flow may become more apparent as an issue, as the algae may turn yellow, in which case you would run the lights a few hours less. But I would pop for a Mag 5 or an Eheim Compact Plus pump because they are quieter and cooler (Mag pumps are basically a tank heater, I took mine off and it dropped 2-3 degrees)

Flow across the entire screen is one thing, if you can lift the screen out of the water and you get a continuous sheet of water falling off of it (no channelling or rivering off the bottom edge) then that's enough flow. If it streams and trickles off, that's not enough flow. Not only does the flow provide nutrients and CO2 to the algae, it also draws away the O2 it produces so that the algae can grow more. So you want a lot of flow, it is very important.