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Unread 09/03/2012, 04:27 AM   #1
clowntrigger4
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Another sailfinfin tang found off Florida coast

Another sailfin tang was sighted off the Florida coast this year. I think that the sailfin tang could be a worse invasive species than the lionfish because there is so much algae over-growing the Caribbean reefs that there would be an endless supply of food for them and they could multiply rapidly. Zebrasoma species are excellent algae eaters and with all of the algae growing in the Caribbean the Zebrasoma species could become numerous.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 05:44 AM   #2
29144u
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I had not heard of this -was this an adult? do you have any more info?


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Unread 09/03/2012, 06:00 AM   #3
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http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/Speci...cimenID=286012


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Unread 09/03/2012, 06:19 AM   #4
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Why is this bad? Thanks.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 06:35 AM   #5
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I agree that this might not be as bad as the lionfish - and actually might solve a problem. You are right that algea is overgrowing the Florida Carribean reefs. However, the reason for that overgrowth was the virus/sickness/death of most of the longspine sea urchins late last century. Some say that the overgrowth of algea is ONE of the reasons for the decimation of the staghorn and elkhorn coral around Florida. That being said, a new species of fish to take over what the urchins used to do might actually help. Of course, we don't know what else they might effect . . .


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Unread 09/03/2012, 06:40 AM   #6
clowntrigger4
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Why is this bad? Thanks.
The sailfin tang is from the Indo-pacific and is not native to the Atlantic. This species is an excellent algae eater the Caribbean is covered with algae due to a plague that killed of almost all of the Diadema antillarum urchins. The huge amount of algae could provide a lot of food for a sailfin tang population to grow to huge numbers in terms of population.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 06:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by clowntrigger4 View Post
The sailfin tang is from the Indo-pacific and is not native to the Atlantic. This species is an excellent algae eater the Caribbean is covered with algae due to a plague that killed of almost all of the Diadema antillarum urchins. The huge amount of algae could provide a lot of food for a sailfin tang population to grow to huge numbers in terms of population.
I'm still not seeing a downside here.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 06:50 AM   #8
clowntrigger4
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I agree that this might not be as bad as the lionfish - and actually might solve a problem. You are right that algea is overgrowing the Florida Carribean reefs. However, the reason for that overgrowth was the virus/sickness/death of most of the longspine sea urchins late last century. Some say that the overgrowth of algea is ONE of the reasons for the decimation of the staghorn and elkhorn coral around Florida. That being said, a new species of fish to take over what the urchins used to do might actually help. Of course, we don't know what else they might effect . . .
The sailfin tangs might help reduce the amount of algae over growing the reefs but the you will have a large population of sailfin tangs. At least the algae is a native species.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 07:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by clowntrigger4 View Post
The sailfin tangs might help reduce the amount of algae over growing the reefs but the you will have a large population of sailfin tangs. At least the algae is a native species.
but I still dont see any major catastrophic downside.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 07:22 AM   #10
clowntrigger4
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but I still dont see any major catastrophic downside.
They are not a native species. They may help reduce the algae but they do not belong in the Caribbean/Atlantic.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 07:51 AM   #11
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The non-native species, humans, has already caused enough damage in North America! What is one more?


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Unread 09/03/2012, 08:09 AM   #12
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One potential bad effect of such an invasion would be the depletion, or extinction, of native species. Like the Atlantic blue tang.
The reality is that we can't, with any degree of certainty, predict what the outcome will be when we introduce a new species to an established ecosystem.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 08:13 AM   #13
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A non-native specie must be able to survive in an environment it is not adapted to and be able to survive native predators. If it survives, it will establish a niche in their new habitat and nature achieves a new equilibrium. This is how diverse species evolve to adjust to their new surroundings. They will perish if they are not able to fit in their new home. So, chill...


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Unread 09/03/2012, 10:21 AM   #14
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I saw a couple when snorkeling in the Jupiter, Palm Beach area this summer.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 10:25 AM   #15
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Off the topic sort of, but are you allowed to collect invasive species from Florida State parks? Such as collecting lionfish and sailfin tangs?


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Unread 09/03/2012, 10:31 AM   #16
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Won't they eat and grow and breed and then slow down once they don't have masses of algae to eat? I understand they don't belong there and may end up being a large population, but won't they be slowed down by the algae at some point?


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Unread 09/03/2012, 11:44 AM   #17
clowntrigger4
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Originally Posted by elegance coral View Post
One potential bad effect of such an invasion would be the depletion, or extinction, of native species. Like the Atlantic blue tang.
The reality is that we can't, with any degree of certainty, predict what the outcome will be when we introduce a new species to an established ecosystem.
That is very true. Plus the herbivores in the Indo-pacific are much better than in the Caribbean/Atlantic and they are far more numerous causing them to be specialists. The naso tang eats Lobophora algae that most others species do not touch. The scopas tang is a specialist as are the Kole tang and the unicorn fishes. Not to mention the Foxface rabbitfish and the lawnmower blenny. These species will see the Caribbean reefs as a buffet and grow in large numbers. The Atlantic blue tang likely does not care for the types of algae over-growing the Caribbean reefs and thus Indo-pacific species would grow huge in number due to all of the food available. I just think the sailfin tang could become numerous due to the fact that theycan eat different types of algae the Atlantic blue tang can not. That is what makes them a dangerous invasive species.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 12:50 PM   #18
elegance coral
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Won't they eat and grow and breed and then slow down once they don't have masses of algae to eat? I understand they don't belong there and may end up being a large population, but won't they be slowed down by the algae at some point?
Yes. You are correct.
The fear is for the native species that rely on that same food source, space, and other resources. What happens if the tangs wipe out all, or most, of the caulerpa and Royal Gramma's have a harder time finding nest building material? If the Royal Gramma's population is reduced, what happens to those organisms that may feed on Royal Gramma's? What happens to coral if there's a small crustacean that feeds on coral, but Royal Grammas keep their numbers in check? What happens to lettuce sea slugs if the abundance of caulerpa is reduced? What about the animals that may feed on lettuce sea slugs?
The only thing we can be sure of is that introducing a new species to an established ecosystem will result in changes to that ecosystem. It will create a domino effect. Where it stops, no one knows. It could have catastrophic results.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 01:14 PM   #19
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it is an interesting chain reaction situation... but as has been said... it will all equal out.. if they eat all the algae, their pop will slow down... maybe something will start eating them... this "invasive" doesnt seem to have a HUGE obvious downside...


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Unread 09/03/2012, 02:47 PM   #20
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can anyone say --cane toad


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Unread 09/03/2012, 03:08 PM   #21
elegance coral
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can anyone say --cane toad
Just a harmless little frog, right? After all, what harm could one little toad (or fish) cause? No one could have foreseen the amount of destruction this one little toad has caused.


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Unread 09/03/2012, 03:23 PM   #22
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A significant upside - more feeder fish for groupers and tuna - more sammiches for me!


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Unread 09/03/2012, 05:34 PM   #23
clowntrigger4
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90% of the coral reefs in the Caribbean have been killed due to algal over growth. If a species like the sailfin tang which is excellent algae eater gets established then amount of algae on the reefs will be reduced changing the environment of the species who live there. This couldccause a disaster to the fish on the reefs who have adapted to an algal environment as opposed to a coral environment


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Unread 09/03/2012, 06:34 PM   #24
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it is an interesting chain reaction situation... but as has been said... it will all equal out.. if they eat all the algae, their pop will slow down... maybe something will start eating them... this "invasive" doesnt seem to have a HUGE obvious downside...
The whole "it will all equal out" is the potential downside.

There is a established level of resources. Those resources are shared by the native species. An invasive coming in is not bringing its own food with it. So food remains constant. So for things to balance out either the invasive must vanish or the natives must diminish.

The concern is the unknowns. That balance could be with the Tangs filling in for the hole in the devastated urchin population. That assumes they get natural predators (plenty in the Caribbean so that should be a given). Or it could mean they decimate the food chain and make things even worse for the spiky fellas (and the other natives). It is impossible to judge. It may be nothing. It could be the apocalypse (pretty sure there was mention of a Sailfin invasion in there somewhere...).


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Unread 09/03/2012, 07:16 PM   #25
clowntrigger4
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The whole "it will all equal out" is the potential downside.

There is a established level of resources. Those resources are shared by the native species. An invasive coming in is not bringing its own food with it. So food remains constant. So for things to balance out either the invasive must vanish or the natives must diminish.

The concern is the unknowns. That balance could be with the Tangs filling in for the hole in the devastated urchin population. That assumes they get natural predators (plenty in the Caribbean so that should be a given). Or it could mean they decimate the food chain and make things even worse for the spiky fellas (and the other natives). It is impossible to judge. It may be nothing. It could be the apocalypse (pretty sure there was mention of a Sailfin invasion in there somewhere...).
To be fair a lot of the algae comes from human pollution so it is not entirely natural.


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