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Old 11/10/2012, 02:07 PM   #1
cmaxwell39
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Meredithi or Scribbled

I purchased this fish ~10 months ago from Diver's Den. It was sold as a Scribbled angel (Chaetodontoplus duboulayi). Here is what it looked like at the time of purchase.





The second photo is just for size refrence. The fish was extremely small (1.75"). As it has matured over the last 10 months it has not developed the patterns that I was expecting, and I am now debating whether or not I was sold a Scrbbled or a false personifier ((Chaetodontoplus meredithi). Here are a couple of pictures of this fish today. He is currently 3.5-4".







What can you angel experts tell me about my fish? Thanks in advance.


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Old 11/10/2012, 03:36 PM   #2
geaux xman
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The bottom 3 fish pics indicate it is a false personifer. I have both fish.

I'm not good with really juvenile angels, but 3" scribbled looks adult except smaller.


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Old 11/10/2012, 03:52 PM   #3
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That sure looks like Chaetodontoplus meredithi to me.


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Old 11/10/2012, 08:29 PM   #4
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That's a nice looking angel, but definitely not a Scribbled Angel.

Like geaux man said, a 3" Scribbled will look like an adult.


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Old 11/11/2012, 05:13 AM   #5
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Thanks everyone. I was thinking the same thing, but as this is my first large angel I figured I would get some help from th experts. Thanks again for confirming what I had thought.


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Old 11/11/2012, 05:48 AM   #6
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so are you happy with the fish even though you were originally wanting a scribbled? they are very nice looking grown as well...


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Old 11/11/2012, 06:58 AM   #7
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Nice Personifer regardless! I have one and it's my favorite in my tank. Yours grew QUICK - about the only 'issue' I have with mine is how slow mine seems to grow.


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Old 11/11/2012, 08:06 AM   #8
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While it's not a scribbled (I'm sure LA will fix that for you) it is a beautiful meredithi! I hope you keep and enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine


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Old 11/11/2012, 08:44 AM   #9
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I have both and its definitely a Personifer. Did you let DD know because i believe Scribbled angels are more expensive so dont they technically owe you the difference in price if they sent the wrong fish!


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Old 11/11/2012, 10:05 AM   #10
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I have both too
That's a Meredithi its very nice one too


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Old 11/11/2012, 11:29 AM   #11
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I sent a message to Liveaquaria today. I will let you know what response I get from them. I have no doubt that they will make it right one way or another. They have always treated me very fairly.


I am not sure what I am going to do with the meredithi. While they are a good looking fish, I (actually my wife) was really wanting a scribbled. Since my tank is only a 150 (72x24x20) I don't think I have room for both, and the 14" mature size of the meredithi concerns me a little as well.

On the other hand, this angel gets along great with current tank inhabitants, and doesn't bother any corals (all sps tank). It might be tempting to keep a known entity rather than take a chance on something new.

Suggestions?


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Old 11/11/2012, 11:40 AM   #12
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Meredithis don't actually get that big. I think the max listed total length is 10". My male is about 8-9".


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Old 11/11/2012, 12:05 PM   #13
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Good to know. I have checked multiple sites for max size on the meredithi, including LA, and they all list max size at 14". If it won't get over 10" that would be good.


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Old 11/11/2012, 01:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmaxwell39 View Post
Good to know. I have checked multiple sites for max size on the meredithi, including LA, and they all list max size at 14". If it won't get over 10" that would be good.
Fishbase lists it at 25cm, not to be confused with the personifer and scribbled, which both get larger.


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Last edited by SDguy; 11/11/2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 11/11/2012, 01:46 PM   #15
cmaxwell39
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So much conflicting information out there. Live aquaria lists max size on the scribbled at 10", and the max size on the False personifier (Meredithi) as 1' 2". This is consistent with a couple of other sites that I checked. I will check fish base.


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Old 11/12/2012, 06:32 AM   #16
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Just wanted to let everyone know that LA has given me a refund of $100 to make up for the difference in cost between the False Personifier and the Scribbled. I love Live Aquaria for thier customer service. No questions asked, just do what they can to make things right. I have not dealt with any other company that is as easy to work with as they are.

For all of you that have False Personifiers and love them, what do you like about the fish? I like the adult coloration of the scribbled better, but don't think that I have room for both fish. Trying to decide whether to keep this fish, or sell it and try and get a Scribbled again. Thanks again for all your help.


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Old 11/12/2012, 06:53 AM   #17
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if its a male scribbled, then it looks awesome. male scribbled angels are very rare though. Mine is a changing male and has popeye.

http://youtu.be/T7a19h1S5Bk?hd=1

I know a guy that had to get rid of his scribbled b/c it ate up his reef.

My vote is to keep the fish that you kept it since it was a tiny juvenile.

Your tank, your fish though... G'luck.


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Old 11/12/2012, 09:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmaxwell39 View Post
For all of you that have False Personifiers and love them, what do you like about the fish? I like the adult coloration of the scribbled better, but don't think that I have room for both fish. Trying to decide whether to keep this fish, or sell it and try and get a Scribbled again. Thanks again for all your help.
Just personal preference. I don't think I could say my meredithis are better than scribbled angels for any other reason other than I like them better. I think you should get the fish that you want most. I can't comment on reef safeness - mine are in a FOWLR.


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Old 11/12/2012, 12:19 PM   #19
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I have a 10" Meredith I love the bright blue colors on its face
the 6" scribble very nice male or female it's always one of my favorite

That so nice of liveaquaria to give you that much in refund because the price difference is not that much specially for that size.


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Last edited by bullitr; 11/12/2012 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 11/12/2012, 06:20 PM   #20
cmaxwell39
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Yeah Live Aquaria is awesome. Their customer service is second to none.

Thanks for all the input. I am not in a huge hurry on this fish. It would be cool to be able to know that I have kept the fish since it was a tiny juvenile. Still not sure what I am going to do, but I appreciate everyone's input.


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Old 11/13/2012, 05:29 AM   #21
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I say keep your current fish, one because they are nice fish, and two because it is a model citizen in your reef so far.

As far as another fish, if you really like the scribbled then I would get it, BUT I think with sexually dichromatic fish like these angels you won't really appreciate either species unless you have a pair. The personifers get an awesome mask in the male, and the male scribbled has an intricate body pattern.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you want another personifer... and finding a pair of scribbleds that are reef safe may be a challenge.

I'd get another personifer.


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Old 11/13/2012, 09:45 AM   #22
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I won't keep this on a reef unless you have SPS only tank.
Also I might be a hybrid too because all of the baby personifer I have seen doesn't look like that


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Old 11/14/2012, 07:10 AM   #23
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I love the scribbled but from experience, raising juvi angels and watching them change is truly rewarding. Glad LA took care of the difference for you, I'd expect nothing less from them.


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Old 11/14/2012, 06:12 PM   #24
cmaxwell39
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I say keep your current fish, one because they are nice fish, and two because it is a model citizen in your reef so far.

As far as another fish, if you really like the scribbled then I would get it, BUT I think with sexually dichromatic fish like these angels you won't really appreciate either species unless you have a pair. The personifers get an awesome mask in the male, and the male scribbled has an intricate body pattern.

That being said, it doesn't seem like you want another personifer... and finding a pair of scribbleds that are reef safe may be a challenge.

I'd get another personifer.

Thanks for your input. I really don't think I have enough room in my tank for another large angel. It is the a 150 (72x24x20 same footprint as a 180, but four inches shorter.) I already have nearly 20 fish in this tank. While a lot of them are flasher wrasses, and smaller fish, I do have two tangs (whitecheek and Kole.) Just worried about bioload, otherwise having a pair of angels might be a possiblilty.

If I were to pair them, would I look for a larger fish to put with the one I currently have, or would I need to wait for this one to mature a little to see if I have a male or female? (do they change sexes, or are they either male or female their entire life)?


Quote:
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I won't keep this on a reef unless you have SPS only tank.
Also I might be a hybrid too because all of the baby personifer I have seen doesn't look like that
My tank is a 100% SPS reef, so I am not overly concerned with coral decimation. I do not have any softies or LPS that it could go after.

I hadn't considered it being a hybrid. What might it hybridize (I think that is a word) with? That would actually be really cool, as it would make it very unique. Would be really interesting to see what kind of colors develop.



Quote:
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I love the scribbled but from experience, raising juvi angels and watching them change is truly rewarding. Glad LA took care of the difference for you, I'd expect nothing less from them.

I agree. That is one of the reasons to buy a fish so small was to be able to watch its colors change as it matured.

And yes, while some people complain about the price of fish on LA, especially DD, their customer service is one of the reasons that I will gladly pay a little more for a fish. Very few companies would have stood behind the sale 10 months later. Says a lot for the kind of company they run.


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Old 11/14/2012, 08:05 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cmaxwell39 View Post
Thanks for your input. I really don't think I have enough room in my tank for another large angel. It is the a 150 (72x24x20 same footprint as a 180, but four inches shorter.) I already have nearly 20 fish in this tank. While a lot of them are flasher wrasses, and smaller fish, I do have two tangs (whitecheek and Kole.) Just worried about bioload, otherwise having a pair of angels might be a possiblilty.

If I were to pair them, would I look for a larger fish to put with the one I currently have, or would I need to wait for this one to mature a little to see if I have a male or female? (do they change sexes, or are they either male or female their entire life)?
I would get a smaller one. Angelfish are protogynous hermaphrodites, which means they are born female and have the ability to change to male later in life. Ideally I would get a juvenile as the adult will probably pay less attention to it.

Getting a larger fish, may cause problems as the one you currently have is the dominant angel in the tank right now. While it may not be exhibiting male coloration or even large enough to be a male, it probably won't want a competitor in it's territory.

As far as it being a hybrid, it is highly unlikely and I don't see any signs of it being a hybrid. The only thing that looks a little odd to me is the coloration of the yellow band behind the operculum, which is usually more white, but it looks like that could be a product of the picture because if you look closely at the pics there is a hint of white.

Just from the pictures of hybrid butterflyfish and angelfish I have seen, they usually exhibit quite dramatic and obvious color differences from either parent but usually (if you consider collection locale) can be identified by looking at characteristics they share with fish from that location.


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