Guess the Phosphate level - Page 2

Thales · 01/09/2014, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzman7838

So the phosphate concentration is 100 times higher than the "limiting" concentration and yet you have no algae problems? What's your secret?

Ha!

Allmost · 01/09/2014, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzman7838

So the phosphate concentration is 100 times higher than the "limiting" concentration and yet you have no algae problems? What's your secret?

what is this limiting thing u speak of ?

sahin · 01/09/2014, 07:01 PM

0.1-0.3ppm regardless of how much GFO is used or how much feeding is reduced and water changes are increased.

So my questions to you are:

1. How do you not have nuisance algae?

2. At such a "high" PO4 level, why do your SPS stay coloured up?

3. Which leads to: is our understanding of PO4 level and SPS colouration somehow wrong?

Beautiful tank.

galleon · 01/09/2014, 07:27 PM

Awesome!!! How do we nominate for TOTM?

sahin · 01/09/2014, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allmost

what is this limiting thing u speak of ?

0.03ppm?

sahin · 01/09/2014, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galleon

awesome!!! How do we nominate for totm?

+1

reefmutt · 01/09/2014, 08:37 PM

I think its clear that sps can handle some po4.
Thales' beautiful tank is proof of that. I have the same problem but .1 seems to be my insurmountable number.
if one were to compare the colours of thales' acros to a zeo tank, where p is extremely low, one could say that the colours are nicer in the zeo tank, if one preferred the pastel look of a zeo tank..

i get it that we often 'chase the numbers' too much instead of practicing good husbandry and watching our corals thrive..

I second sahin's 3 questions..

thales, where do you keep your no3? is there a golden ratio between no3 and p04 (redfield related?..) which allows them to stay well coloured and not turn all brown?

very interesting..

Clownemone · 01/09/2014, 10:57 PM

so what's the phosphate level? did I totally miss it? : ( don't keep us hanging, some of us (more like me) might not be able to sleep! lol!

Fail_sh3d · 01/09/2014, 11:10 PM

I'm going to say...

.03

dirtycontour · 01/09/2014, 11:16 PM

It was in the article he linked. .1-.3 ppm.

Clownemone · 01/10/2014, 12:37 AM

ha! thanks dirtycontour!

Thales · 01/10/2014, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtycontour

It was in the article he linked. .1-.3 ppm.

Nope! That is where it was running when that article came out, July 2012 - which is why I said linking to the article wouldn't spoil the game.

There has been one guess so far that is pretty close....

ssscuz · 01/10/2014, 06:52 AM

How many sps frags do you lose that come from ulns?

If u pick all coral that like the same parameters, or are tank hardened to higher nutrient it will survive.

Regardless this is a stunning tank, I just hope a heap of ppl don't go feeding their tanks up to try "copycat" this and lose the lot

sahin · 01/10/2014, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thales

Nope! That is where it was running when that article came out, July 2012 - which is why I said linking to the article wouldn't spoil the game.

There has been one guess so far that is pretty close....

Dont be implying that the PO4 level is even higher!

Well, now I'd say that the PO4 must be like 3ppm! ???

Or is that too extreme?

cnforellik · 01/10/2014, 07:03 AM

.6 ... Which is where mine is as well...

jBugg · 01/10/2014, 07:10 AM

I thought my recent .25 was high!! Great tank btw. My guess is .65. =)

KafudaFish · 01/10/2014, 07:32 AM

.54

What percent of the rock was lr?

88rxna · 01/10/2014, 07:51 AM

I am so confused...my po4 is around .04 and everytime my gfo is wasted, Algae takes over..glass gets green, dino pops up,lha grows on the rock. Then i read this??

ormet · 01/10/2014, 07:55 AM

Well since the po4 rises when gfo is exhausted and then drops with new gfo you get unstable po4. Algae loves instability.

Read this by Tom Barr, planted tank guru:
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...n-marine-tanks

cnforellik · 01/10/2014, 07:56 AM

Lol I only personally know 1 person who has there phosphates at a .0something at all...but everyone I know has thriving tanks and really don't have algae problems..I think remaining a constant level is more important than chasing a number and fluctuations all the time.. If I could ever get that low I would def strive to keep it..and I do as much as I can to lower mine...but seems to stay at .6 or so..have recently installed a ats to try to use the po4..but I do not have a battle going on with algae either

Thales · 01/10/2014, 08:45 AM

The last Nitrate test was 9.5

Thales · 01/10/2014, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88rxna

I am so confused...my po4 is around .04 and everytime my gfo is wasted, Algae takes over..glass gets green, dino pops up,lha grows on the rock. Then i read this??

How old is your system and what herbivores do you have in there?

dvanacker · 01/10/2014, 09:16 AM

Can you just come out with it so we can have a real discussion?

You know what, I think I have to be skeptical either way. I'm a true believer I. Bending the curve and more than one to do thi.gs in this hobby but with 10ppm NO3 it's going be hard to believe that PO4 is higher than 0.1ppm and your implying it's above 0.3ppm. This is so far off most people's personal experience it's I can't believe it unless I witnessed it.

Is this your tank Thale? What are the test kits used? A video of testing would make me a believer but than again how do we know the test kit isn't faulty? Sorry I'm not usually so skeptical but....

Thales · 01/10/2014, 09:37 AM

I'm having fun with this, and I would like to have fun at RC again, so please allow me this.
You should be skeptical - I am so happy you are!
The next Skeptical Reefkeeping article is about Testing Kits, Chasing Numbers, and Phosphate, will answer most questions and should be published this soon. In the meantime, I am interested in peoples reactions and the discussions that are starting to shake out.

And yeah, its above .3.

dvanacker · 01/10/2014, 09:40 AM

Is this your tank?

01/09/2014, 07:01 PM	#28
sahin Ultimate Reefer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,540	0.1-0.3ppm regardless of how much GFO is used or how much feeding is reduced and water changes are increased. So my questions to you are: 1. How do you not have nuisance algae? 2. At such a "high" PO4 level, why do your SPS stay coloured up? 3. Which leads to: is our understanding of PO4 level and SPS colouration somehow wrong? Beautiful tank. Last edited by sahin; 01/09/2014 at 07:09 PM.

01/09/2014, 08:37 PM	#32
reefmutt Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mtl. Canada Posts: 7,824	I think its clear that sps can handle some po4. Thales' beautiful tank is proof of that. I have the same problem but .1 seems to be my insurmountable number. if one were to compare the colours of thales' acros to a zeo tank, where p is extremely low, one could say that the colours are nicer in the zeo tank, if one preferred the pastel look of a zeo tank.. i get it that we often 'chase the numbers' too much instead of practicing good husbandry and watching our corals thrive.. I second sahin's 3 questions.. thales, where do you keep your no3? is there a golden ratio between no3 and p04 (redfield related?..) which allows them to stay well coloured and not turn all brown? very interesting.. __________________ Matt. Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

01/09/2014, 11:10 PM	#34
Fail_sh3d Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Miami-Orlando Posts: 417	I'm going to say... .03 __________________ Jon Current Tank Info: Custom drilled 20L with sump/refugium, BM 3 Plus skimmer, 2 MP10, mixed reef.

01/10/2014, 07:32 AM	#42
KafudaFish Cyprinius carpio Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,496	.54 What percent of the rock was lr? Last edited by KafudaFish; 01/10/2014 at 07:56 AM.

01/10/2014, 07:51 AM	#43
88rxna Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: ludlow,PA Posts: 605	I am so confused...my po4 is around .04 and everytime my gfo is wasted, Algae takes over..glass gets green, dino pops up,lha grows on the rock. Then i read this?? __________________ 90 gallon display, CSC bean animal overflow/30 gallon sump (in basement) SWC 160 skimmer reeflow dart external pump reefkeeper lite a pair of ocean revive S026 led fixtures

01/09/2014, 07:27 PM	#29
galleon Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,003	Awesome!!! How do we nominate for TOTM?

01/09/2014, 10:57 PM	#33
Clownemone Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 51	so what's the phosphate level? did I totally miss it? : ( don't keep us hanging, some of us (more like me) might not be able to sleep! lol!

01/09/2014, 11:16 PM	#35
dirtycontour Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 256	It was in the article he linked. .1-.3 ppm.

01/10/2014, 12:37 AM	#36
Clownemone Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 51	ha! thanks dirtycontour!

01/10/2014, 06:52 AM	#38
ssscuz Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 150	How many sps frags do you lose that come from ulns? If u pick all coral that like the same parameters, or are tank hardened to higher nutrient it will survive. Regardless this is a stunning tank, I just hope a heap of ppl don't go feeding their tanks up to try "copycat" this and lose the lot

01/10/2014, 07:03 AM	#40
cnforellik Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 35	.6 ... Which is where mine is as well...

01/10/2014, 07:10 AM	#41
jBugg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 140	I thought my recent .25 was high!! Great tank btw. My guess is .65. =)

01/10/2014, 07:55 AM	#44
ormet Just one more frag Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 332	Well since the po4 rises when gfo is exhausted and then drops with new gfo you get unstable po4. Algae loves instability. Read this by Tom Barr, planted tank guru: http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...n-marine-tanks __________________ 345g tank in planning. Current Tank Info: 225 litres SPS

01/10/2014, 07:56 AM	#45
cnforellik Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 35	Lol I only personally know 1 person who has there phosphates at a .0something at all...but everyone I know has thriving tanks and really don't have algae problems..I think remaining a constant level is more important than chasing a number and fluctuations all the time.. If I could ever get that low I would def strive to keep it..and I do as much as I can to lower mine...but seems to stay at .6 or so..have recently installed a ats to try to use the po4..but I do not have a battle going on with algae either

01/10/2014, 08:45 AM	#46
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	The last Nitrate test was 9.5 __________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work

01/10/2014, 09:16 AM	#48
dvanacker DID I SOUNDS SMRT?? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ontario, CAN Posts: 3,690	Can you just come out with it so we can have a real discussion? You know what, I think I have to be skeptical either way. I'm a true believer I. Bending the curve and more than one to do thi.gs in this hobby but with 10ppm NO3 it's going be hard to believe that PO4 is higher than 0.1ppm and your implying it's above 0.3ppm. This is so far off most people's personal experience it's I can't believe it unless I witnessed it. Is this your tank Thale? What are the test kits used? A video of testing would make me a believer but than again how do we know the test kit isn't faulty? Sorry I'm not usually so skeptical but.... __________________ --DARRYL-- Current Tank Info: 200g SPS dominant Mixed Reef

01/10/2014, 09:37 AM	#49
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	I'm having fun with this, and I would like to have fun at RC again, so please allow me this. You should be skeptical - I am so happy you are! The next Skeptical Reefkeeping article is about Testing Kits, Chasing Numbers, and Phosphate, will answer most questions and should be published this soon. In the meantime, I am interested in peoples reactions and the discussions that are starting to shake out. And yeah, its above .3. __________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work Last edited by Thales; 01/10/2014 at 09:44 AM.

01/10/2014, 09:40 AM	#50
dvanacker DID I SOUNDS SMRT?? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ontario, CAN Posts: 3,690	Is this your tank? __________________ --DARRYL-- Current Tank Info: 200g SPS dominant Mixed Reef