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Old 05/02/2015, 03:13 PM   #1026
raidendex
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Well, I just do not want to really change the environment for the corals. Which is why I am keeping the same high flow and light schedule. But it seem to be working. While no corals really were suffering I do have some small anemones that were shrunk down for a while ever since dinos came into bloom, but in the past few days they've opened back up and look normal.


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Old 05/02/2015, 03:16 PM   #1027
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Phytoplankton or marine microalgae are microscopic vegetable cells that can be found dispersed in the sea.

New vegetable!

Sounds interesting, but I would guess be somewhat similar to those green water things, just easier to store etc.? Do not see which plankton is in it.


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Old 05/02/2015, 03:28 PM   #1028
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A mix of nanochloropsys, isochyris, tetraselmis and another one I don't recall.
This stuff makes copepods and featherdusters breed like crazy and those become an awesome source of food for fishes and corals (besides that they guzzle tons of dinoflagellates)


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Old 05/02/2015, 03:37 PM   #1029
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Sounds good.

I do have a lot of pods, mini brittle starfish, feather dusters, bristle worms etc. so there is plenty of life other than the fish and corals

Here is a quick video of the tank as of today. Do not have a before video, but there are few shots in the earlier posts where you can see heavy dusting of dinos in the tank. Sorry for being shacky, I just hand held the DSLR to quickly make a video.




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Old 05/06/2015, 12:57 AM   #1030
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Mine are back.

I added a lot of new coral and fish from a buddy who was breaking his down. He didn't have them.

I was feeding a little heavy for a week. Suddenly - bubbles all over. And mucusy.

UV is back on and I'm skimming 24hrs a day. I believe this is what worked before for me, so here we go again.


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Old 05/06/2015, 10:50 AM   #1031
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And I made a 100g water change (on my 660g system) and stopped feeding. I'm also increasing my water flow and turbulence.

I know this is violating the rules of Dino killing, but I think once there's enough bad guys, you need to eradicate the plankton ecosystem and start over. Hence the heavy UV, skimming, water change, no feeding, and excessive flow. I want to move the water column and get as much of the gunk flowing through my UV (to kill it) and skimmer (to export it).

Not raising pH or going dark this time.


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Old 05/06/2015, 01:09 PM   #1032
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Does anyone know if there are any natural predators? I was debating on adding a few wrasses see if that would reduce the Dino's numbers.


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Old 05/06/2015, 03:46 PM   #1033
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They're like poisonous bacterial strings. Predators are other zooplankton. I tried that and then decided to nuke all plankton.


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Old 05/06/2015, 07:00 PM   #1034
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Believe it or not. This is better
 photo 313CA88D-1ACA-4DE9-A65C-E9B6CEA761ED_zpskuwa0ku9.jpg


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Old 05/06/2015, 07:10 PM   #1035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
 photo 313CA88D-1ACA-4DE9-A65C-E9B6CEA761ED_zpskuwa0ku9.jpg
My tank has the same issue except that mine is mostly on the sand which turns that brownish rust color. I have noticed a reduction in the Dinos over the last several days since I started dosing vodka (1ml/day) with stability. I don't know how it will work out long term but for now, my bubble algae is starting to die off, the Dinos are making a retreat and it is looking better overall.


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Old 05/06/2015, 10:31 PM   #1036
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I was dosing nopox to control mine. I stopped for a week and it came back. On some advice I tried pure L-ascorbic acid/vitamin C. That wasn't effective. I started dosing white distilled vinegar at 50mL/100g and 500mg of vitamin C daily. I was able to grow turf algae a few days ago. Looking promising so far. The true test will be if i let off the carbon dosing what happens. But honestly, this combo is looking so good - i'm not sure i want to test it. SPS and acans are showing some significant growth and my fish that used to flash on surfaces from time to time have stopped.

Ostereoposis


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Old 05/08/2015, 03:34 PM   #1037
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Over one month dino-free.
The best thing is that now I can easily control them. If I ever watch any dino evidence, I will just stop the skimmer and increase the phytoplankton dose.

I have so many pods that I can maintain six synchiropus in the same bare bottom tank and they are getting fat, lol


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Old 05/08/2015, 03:36 PM   #1038
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Encouraging biodiversity is the way to go.


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Old 05/08/2015, 11:36 PM   #1039
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Sure. But if you're not lucky enough to get the right bug to kill the dinos, then you need to destroy the plankton phase long enough for a complete dino cycle.
Unless someone has bottled the right bugs, it's a crapshoot.

This is my second flare up and I mostly killed it in a week. Going to maintain it until they're eradicated.

 photo B4C7E0F5-7355-4773-9467-BF2070F5D0E6_zpshyxhisxh.jpg


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Old 05/08/2015, 11:52 PM   #1040
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Oh. Here's my approach.
1. 100% on time Low flow 400gph UV 40W
2. 100% on time chaeto refugium
3. 100% on time skimmer
4. One day lights off and 15% water change
5. High flow in the DT
6. pH at 8.3 with a kalk drip

Here's my theory:

The UV destroys the dinos but it must be low flow and the tank water must be highly agitated to get them into the sterilizer.
The skimmer removes the waste product and pulls living dinos too.
The chaeto consumes the waste product too.
The lights off and water change flushes them out.
The kalk drip isn't about raising pH or alkalinity for the whole tank. I think it effects the water surface at night - plankton disruption.

Not sure about the theory, but it's worked twice now. The stuff that's not in the water column is the stubborn remnant but my crabs are slowly dislodging it.

No cure, but it suppresses the symptoms well enough.


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Old 05/09/2015, 06:23 AM   #1041
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My first dino outbreak and observations. I recently had an ever worsening hair algae problem. I dosed Marine Algaefix for the HA which worked. Just as the tank was looking good, in came the dinos in an incredible rush. What I didn't catch is that my normal nitrate level of less than 5ppm jumped up to 20ppm. I am assuming the total algae kill left plenty of nutrients behind. I do regular weekly 10% water changes. The only "new" things in my 1 1/2 year old reef was the slow buildup of hair algae, the algaefix to get rid of it and now the dinos. I have two new bags of Purigen and replaced what was probably stale Rowaphos in my phosphate reactor with Phosguard. It seems like I am in for a huge battle. Any comments or advice gladly appreciated..


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Old 05/09/2015, 07:35 AM   #1042
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My first dino outbreak and observations. I recently had an ever worsening hair algae problem. I dosed Marine Algaefix for the HA which worked. Just as the tank was looking good, in came the dinos in an incredible rush. What I didn't catch is that my normal nitrate level of less than 5ppm jumped up to 20ppm. I am assuming the total algae kill left plenty of nutrients behind. I do regular weekly 10% water changes. The only "new" things in my 1 1/2 year old reef was the slow buildup of hair algae, the algaefix to get rid of it and now the dinos. I have two new bags of Purigen and replaced what was probably stale Rowaphos in my phosphate reactor with Phosguard. It seems like I am in for a huge battle. Any comments or advice gladly appreciated..
My dinos were the result of algaefix as well, the algaefix decimated all the micro fauna and micro critters in my tank. I agree with Montireef, biodiversity is the key, I've added pods, phyto and garf grunge and am looking to get a piece of live rock from a fellow reefer with some tube worms on it. I've also seen results from not running my skimmer and allowing the nutrients to climb up resulting in green micro algae and cyano which seem to be out competing
the dinos, tank looks good but I can still see dinos under the microscope.


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Old 05/09/2015, 08:26 AM   #1043
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Mikefromaz. What I read from your post.

Your dinos were there all along.
They got the upper hand with the eradication of plant matter or the organisms that eats it.
Montireef is sort of heading back from the opposite direction and claims some success.

Sadly a permanent dino solution does not exists and reefers are not uniting to move towards it.


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Old 05/09/2015, 08:42 AM   #1044
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There are two solutions, but they're mutually exclusive.

The natural solution is to move the ecosystem in a direction with competition (algae) and predators (zooplankton). This is the dirty tank method. It takes time and luck (until someone bottles the predators).

The second is the nuclear option - like Noah's flood: kill everything and biodiversity be damned! I don't have a tank for plankton- I have it for corals, inverts and fish. The UV may destroy the natural food chainbutI can supplement that until these invaders are eradicated. This is the clean tank method (strip nutrients and UV bomb the plankton).

I think both work and both can recover to a healthy ecosystem in the long term. I don't like the intentional growth of turf algae and haven't been able to find the right predators.

There may be a third option - heavy UV and overfeeding/underskimming. Let the algae grow faster but nuke the plankton too! Only the algae already in the rocks will survive since anything in the water column will be nuked.


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Old 05/09/2015, 09:34 AM   #1045
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It makes perfect sense that the Marine Algaefix would kill all of the algae including the micro algae. With no competition for normal level of nutrients the dinos stepped right up to the "lunch counter". My local LFS sells a pod mixture which besides pods, rotifers etc. it has live phytoplankton. Seems like as good a place as any to begin rebuilding. I have one coral loss within a week of algaefix dosing. My otherwise healthy trumpet coral disentegrated. I will post regularly on my progress or lack of same.


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Old 05/09/2015, 11:05 AM   #1046
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Quote:
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Mikefromaz. What I read from your post.

Your dinos were there all along.
They got the upper hand with the eradication of plant matter or the organisms that eats it.
Montireef is sort of heading back from the opposite direction and claims some success.

Sadly a permanent dino solution does not exists and reefers are not uniting to move towards it.
That is right, I have tried many ways and this is the one that gave me best and longest results. Even with the natural parasite (parvilucifera) couldn't get such a success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
There are two solutions, but they're mutually exclusive.

The natural solution is to move the ecosystem in a direction with competition (algae) and predators (zooplankton). This is the dirty tank method. It takes time and luck (until someone bottles the predators).

The second is the nuclear option - like Noah's flood: kill everything and biodiversity be damned! I don't have a tank for plankton- I have it for corals, inverts and fish. The UV may destroy the natural food chainbutI can supplement that until these invaders are eradicated. This is the clean tank method (strip nutrients and UV bomb the plankton).

I think both work and both can recover to a healthy ecosystem in the long term. I don't like the intentional growth of turf algae and haven't been able to find the right predators.

There may be a third option - heavy UV and overfeeding/underskimming. Let the algae grow faster but nuke the plankton too! Only the algae already in the rocks will survive since anything in the water column will be nuked.
I agree. Mine is the second approach but water is absolutely pristine and polyp extension in my acros is awesome 24h a day. About a fortnight since the last time I had to clean the glass, no algae anywhere and the little mulm is quickly eaten by thousands of little snails (yes, thousands). I have made out at least four kinds of copepods and many small worms. In many shaded areas I can find clumps of featherdusters.


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It makes perfect sense that the Marine Algaefix would kill all of the algae including the micro algae. With no competition for normal level of nutrients the dinos stepped right up to the "lunch counter". My local LFS sells a pod mixture which besides pods, rotifers etc. it has live phytoplankton. Seems like as good a place as any to begin rebuilding. I have one coral loss within a week of algaefix dosing. My otherwise healthy trumpet coral disentegrated. I will post regularly on my progress or lack of same.
Seed the tank with those pods and whatever you find. Almost every creature will feed on dinoflagellates. They are the first step in the food chain and they are delicate. They only thrive when they find the perfect conditions: no competition and just a little nutrients (so little than any other organism could not live on it). The outbreak comes when being alone (after that Algaefix dose for example) a nutrient spike takes place.


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Old 05/10/2015, 07:46 AM   #1047
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All my dinos would fit in a volume less than the block marked 10 in the picture below.
The big cube farthest to the left is 66% of my tanks volume.

All my Acroporas are dead and the Montiporas look like zombies.
Do we think their poison is in the water column or that SPS die or suffer due to dinos entering their tissue?

Think of that for a moment.





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Old 05/10/2015, 08:37 AM   #1048
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I have to say that I am believing the variety of dino in my tank is not especially toxic, at least from a chemical standpoint. I can see how they would smother corals though. I can't help but wonder if they have an extremely short lifespan? Every morning the sand seems way less covered by brown, only to have the "bloom" rush back bigger and badder than before. If on the other hand they simply launch themselves into the water column at night perhaps UV would help? It does seem like I killed off one of their limiting factors, specifically competition. The simple green algae like you might expect to scrape off the glass seemed to disappear when the dinos showed up.


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Old 05/10/2015, 08:50 AM   #1049
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I am trying a multi-pronged approach to reduce the dinos by dosing Stability to increase the good bacteria population, vodka to reduce the bubble algae and zooplankton to increase the dinos natural predators and to build a better pod population for a future mandarin. All of that plus increased water changes and sand vacuuming to remove as much as possible from the sand bed. It is still too early to tell if this approach is going to work, but it is the cheaper alternative to a quality UV setup.

@Mike, I have that same "bloom" that you speak of but my bloom has been slowed by the approach listed above. I even added a Diamond Goby to keep the sand bed in a constant state of being turned over but he has made a burrow under some rocks and hasn't come out since I bout him last week. Only time will tell if he has any impact on the situation.


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Old 05/10/2015, 09:01 AM   #1050
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The center section of my 20g. fuge contains about 30pcs of live rock and two bags of Seachem matrix. The section is a low flow area and a LOT of detritus settles out on the bare bottom. When my nitrates get back to less than 5ppm. I am going to slowly remove the rock and see if the matrix is sufficient. My logic is if I don't have to pull the rock and rinse it I might do better husbandry. That seems like a more realistic kption than my hit and miss routine. I have begun removing my oolite sand bed and replacing it in thirds with coarser sand which I can actually vacuum. I replaced the first section about 2 months ago allowing the new stuff to populate before continuing.


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