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Old 07/13/2015, 10:29 AM   #1276
ReyR
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I did it over a 2 week period, about 15% every other day and I dosed supplemental bacteria after each time.
I guess my concern (and it's obviously not the case for you) is that if I do it over a 2 week period, doesn't that increase the chance that the new sand may become seeded with Dinos over the course of that time? I have an order for pods and phytoplankton on the way from Algae Barn. That should help. This my burning question. Could I do the whole change safely over the course of a day with bacteria supplements. I don't want to rush and put the whole tank at risk. But I also don't want to seed new sand with dinos.


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Old 07/13/2015, 10:31 AM   #1277
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What kind of filter did you use?
I used a BRS 10" RO canister with a 5uM sediment filter in it and a maxijet pump, I kept the filter running in my sump between vacuums so it didn't go rotten and used 3 filters in total.


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Old 07/13/2015, 07:04 PM   #1278
natas
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There back!

Just when I thought I got rid of mine they are back.

Here is what happened. I tried everything in my tank. Peroxide, uv, lights out multiple times, no water changes, lots of water changes...nothing worked. So I basically abodoned my tank for 6 months. All I did was feed my fish and top off. No water changes. They went away after about three months. Over a month ago I decided to get the tank back in shape. I did a couple of 30% water changes then setup a continuous water change that does roughly 15% a week. So far all is well.

Not doing the water changes caused a pretty bad algae problem in the tank. I did a lights out for four days and got my cleaning crew updated. This helped and algae got better. Everything held steady for about a month after this. I started getting into my routines and out of the blue did my first phosphate test. It was .4 so I decided to go the quick fix route and run high capacity gfo from brs at half the recommended dose. Two days later now and I am seeing dinoflagellates on the sand (small patch) and a few areas on rocks. I checked my phosphates and they are at .2

I hate these things. I stopped the gfo just now. Hoping I can get control back. My guess is that removing the phosphates killed something else and allowed the dinoflagellates to come back.

Anyone else have ideas or theories on this? What really concerns me is how fast they appeared after bringing down phosphates.


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Old 07/13/2015, 07:39 PM   #1279
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There back!

Just when I thought I got rid of mine they are back.

Here is what happened. I tried everything in my tank. Peroxide, uv, lights out multiple times, no water changes, lots of water changes...nothing worked. So I basically abodoned my tank for 6 months. All I did was feed my fish and top off. No water changes. They went away after about three months. Over a month ago I decided to get the tank back in shape. I did a couple of 30% water changes then setup a continuous water change that does roughly 15% a week. So far all is well.

Not doing the water changes caused a pretty bad algae problem in the tank. I did a lights out for four days and got my cleaning crew updated. This helped and algae got better. Everything held steady for about a month after this. I started getting into my routines and out of the blue did my first phosphate test. It was .4 so I decided to go the quick fix route and run high capacity gfo from brs at half the recommended dose. Two days later now and I am seeing dinoflagellates on the sand (small patch) and a few areas on rocks. I checked my phosphates and they are at .2

I hate these things. I stopped the gfo just now. Hoping I can get control back. My guess is that removing the phosphates killed something else and allowed the dinoflagellates to come back.

Anyone else have ideas or theories on this? What really concerns me is how fast they appeared after bringing down phosphates.
Did you add any or have any plankton, ie pods, worms, critters? Did you have green algae growing on the glass or was it brown?
Lowering the po4 too quickly may have stressed your corals and they may have expelled them, corals host dinos, also you may have had cysts and lowering the po4 triggered them.
Are you correct on the numbers, .4 or .04 and .2 or .02? cuz .2 is a big drop.


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Old 07/13/2015, 07:48 PM   #1280
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I didn't add any pods, or worms. I got plenty of them. The algae on rock and glass was green. The drop was .2 not .02. I use the ulr phosphorus test. I was really surprise by that big of a drop. That brs high capacity gfo is very strong. And that was at almost half the recommended amount.

And this was not from corals I don't think. I lost almost all my corals from the dino and lack of water changes over six months. I do have some zoa but not many


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Old 07/13/2015, 07:52 PM   #1281
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I would stop the gfo and ease up on the water chgs and see if they subside.


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Old 07/13/2015, 08:15 PM   #1282
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For dinos ...
I had a very bad outbreak some years ago.
The only solution (and I tried everything including fauna Marin products) was:

Stop water changes during the treatment
Stop all carbon
Dose 1ml of peroxide oxigen 3% per each 40l of water once a day.
Repeat the treatment until three days after Dino's disappear.
All the best,
Rui


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Old 07/14/2015, 03:00 AM   #1283
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Did you add any or have any plankton, ie pods, worms, critters? Did you have green algae growing on the glass or was it brown?
Lowering the po4 too quickly may have stressed your corals and they may have expelled them, corals host dinos, also you may have had cysts and lowering the po4 triggered them.
Are you correct on the numbers, .4 or .04 and .2 or .02? cuz .2 is a big drop.
I fully agree.

Its about three months and a half I do not see ostreopsis in any of my tanks but I am sure that if I wanted them back the only thing I had to do is toss some phosphate resin (it does not mind if it is GFO or aluminium based).

If I want to get rid of them I just pull out the skimmer and start feeding frozen foods such as brine shrimp or lobster eggs. In about a week they won't be noticeable at all.


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Old 07/14/2015, 07:16 AM   #1284
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I fully agree.

Its about three months and a half I do not see ostreopsis in any of my tanks but I am sure that if I wanted them back the only thing I had to do is toss some phosphate resin (it does not mind if it is GFO or aluminium based).

If I want to get rid of them I just pull out the skimmer and start feeding frozen foods such as brine shrimp or lobster eggs. In about a week they won't be noticeable at all.
So that is interesting....same boat as me.

What do we do if we want to get parameters in check? I personally like a clean tank. I try to keep my phosphates to be in the 0.03-0.08 range. I won't be using GFO after this.

I am thinking what I may do is just start running UV on the tank at night or anytime I see signs of them.


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Old 07/14/2015, 09:47 AM   #1285
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Hi Natas,

I like to run the system with phosphates about 0,03 ppm and nitrates about 0,3 ppm. That's where I get the best colours and good growth rate.

If you place PO4 resins you will get dinos, that's for sure.
What I do to lower PO4 is toss a little bit of KNO3, just a pinch. Whenever I cannot get PO4 levels down, I know it is just because something is limiting anaerobic digestion and if I dose a carbon source, it must be NO3. Adding NO3 in the form of KNO3 is a safe way of doing away with this limiting element.

This "trick" is working fine, almost four months with no ostreopsis or amphidinium (I had both at the same time...). On my last Triton test I got NO3=0 ppm and PO4=0,03 ppm.

Anyway you have to bear in mind that I am talking about a big 650 Gal (2.500 l) system with about 350 acroporas and many other SPSs and LPSs. They are greedy NO3 and PO4 consumers so it does not mind how much I feed the fish (about 25, half of them tangs), nutrients are always undetectable.


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Old 07/14/2015, 01:39 PM   #1286
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Doesn't anyone subscribe to my 'clean' method?

Slow flow UV
Lights out
Constant skimming


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Old 07/14/2015, 01:44 PM   #1287
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Doesn't anyone subscribe to my 'clean' method?

Slow flow UV
Lights out
Constant skimming
You may get lucky and force them into encystment, but they'll remain in your system permanently.


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Dinoflagellates are the kiss of death.

Current Tank Info: Acquasole 60, IceCap 15 Sump, 2x Maxspect Ethereal, Coral Box D500 skimmer, Maxspect Gyre 150, Jecod DCS-5000
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Old 07/14/2015, 02:26 PM   #1288
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They're in every reef system permanently.

It's not about removing them. It's about getting to a healthy balance where they don't cause sickness. My method worked for me and keeps them out consistently.


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Old 07/14/2015, 02:31 PM   #1289
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I agree. I doubt that it's possible to remove all dinoflagellates from a system, and they likely are good at spreading.


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Old 07/14/2015, 02:46 PM   #1290
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I agree. I doubt that it's possible to remove all dinoflagellates from a system, and they likely are good at spreading.
Likely true but depressing. I think dinos (and cyano) are extremophiles, they have adapted to live in conditions where nothing much else can survive.

Today I realized the back wall of my tank was completely covered in dinos again. It's tougher to see them there against the black plastic. Siphoned them off. Got dead (or severely stunned) bristleworms all over the place now. I'm skimming wet, running carbon. Fish and hermit crab still ok. Am I going to end with a totally sterile tank? The weird smell is much more noticable also. Seriously considering a few tap water changes. My tap's got chloramine so it would add a hit of nitrate and ammonia.

ivy


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Old 07/14/2015, 02:47 PM   #1291
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I disagree:

- Clean method: Some dinoflagellates will make cysts. There are barely any other organism that may eat the cysts so they will eventually come back. Just a matter of time.

- Dirty method: Some dinoflagellates will make cysts. The system is teeming with lots of hungry microorganisms, such as ciliates, copepods, amphipods, snails, worms...that will eat every edible thing, specially cysts. There will come a time when all cysts have been eaten and your system free of those dinos. Maybe one month, or one year or one decade...but those crappy cysts will be eaten. I have seen on the microscope how fast a copepod can devour an ostreopsis cyst, it is awesome.


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Old 07/14/2015, 03:42 PM   #1292
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How do you know that the tank will not be reinfected?


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Old 07/14/2015, 04:18 PM   #1293
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Hi Natas,

I like to run the system with phosphates about 0,03 ppm and nitrates about 0,3 ppm. That's where I get the best colours and good growth rate.
.
..That's where I am now. Nitrates 'undetectable' on Salifert is probably about .3 Dinos are very happy. No green algae. Not much coralline, wonder if dinos inhibit them? I'm mostly LPS, and I have one clown goby. Perhaps that's the difference? I have tiny frags. Did you buy pure KNO3 or did you use a plant fertilizer?

ivy


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Old 07/14/2015, 07:52 PM   #1294
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"Clean" is not free of plankton or microorganisms.

I have a lot of planktonic life in my tank and no dino infestation. I don't use algae killing chemicals.

I use UV because it targets free swimming nighttime organisms like dinos while allowing benthic fauna to thrive in their place.

I use skimming because it's a natural scrubbing action and exports solid and liquid waste.

I use iron based GFO and the dinos don't come back.

I have no algae other than coralline in the DT and the macro in the sump.


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Old 07/15/2015, 09:35 AM   #1295
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Doesn't anyone subscribe to my 'clean' method?

Slow flow UV
Lights out
Constant skimming
not that it really matters but i think a couple of us tried this method and reported on our success before you even got your UV sterilizer


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Old 07/15/2015, 09:43 AM   #1296
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small update on my end:

I was dino free for a good 6 months using just the 55 watt UV sterilizer up until I got a new, larger tank with new sand. I transported all livestock and live rock over, just not the sand. I started a small cycle as I was expecting, first the diatoms, then cyano, then what looked like bryopsis. I made the mistake of not letting the cycle run it's course, instead choosing to try to pretty up my system as quickly as possible. Got NO3/PO4 down to 0 and got a small dino bloom even with the UV on. At that point I didn't want it to get any worse so I purchased a new bulb for my UV since it'd been over 6 months now and then when I received it I did a 3 day blackout. I also turned off the skimmer and fed really well. Upon uncovering I started to feed really heavily trying to induce some algae growth. I haven't seen the dinos again since. I have some cyano and some hair algae and I just bought an ATS as well to promote algae growth. Stocked up on copepods and feeding phyto as well.

So I think all these methods work. I think we just need to be mindful not to get our water too clean. Biodiversity is the key.


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Old 07/15/2015, 12:25 PM   #1297
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not that it really matters but i think a couple of us tried this method and reported on our success before you even got your UV sterilizer
Really? Ok. I thought the results were unsuccessful before. My key was running a very slow flow through the UV and a lot of skimming.

If it's not original, that's great! Just means more people are successfully killing the beasts with the clean method.

In my case, I didn't overfeed and I use a GFO. I've also cut back skimming at night again - no dinos. But the slow flow UV is still on 24/7. Thinking of cutting it back to evenings only... Dare I test fate?

Maybe when I get back from vacation in a couple of weeks.


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Old 07/15/2015, 01:38 PM   #1298
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The only thing that has worked for me was to remove my sand bed and add an algae scrubber. Lights out, no water changes, peroxide dosing, siphoning my sand into a filter sock in my sump, and removing the top layer of my sand bed didn't work. It would knock them back, but they would be right back after a couple of weeks. Since removing my sand bed and adding an algae scrubber, I haven't seen any signs of them for almost two months now.


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Old 07/15/2015, 03:43 PM   #1299
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Doesn't anyone subscribe to my 'clean' method?
I think it's your 'avatar' that is spooking everybody.lol.


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Old 07/15/2015, 04:41 PM   #1300
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I use a macro algae scrubber too.


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