Reef Central Online Community
Blue Zoo Aquatics

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 08/08/2015, 05:28 PM   #1501
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Don't think so, looks like same stuff that was all over my frags


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/08/2015, 06:40 PM   #1502
cal_stir
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: corunna,ontario,canada
Posts: 263
I wonder if you went too fast, I let my cyano go for about 4 weeks before I chemicleaned it, I controlled it by sucking it up with a baster when it was getting too heavy. I also let the green micro algae grow on the glass until I could barely see through it, about 3 or 4 days. I turned my skimmer on when hair algae was starting to grow on the back glass, scraped it off with a scraper.
I maintained my no3 @ 3ppm (sulphur denitrator) and po4 @ .03 (lanthanum chloride)

I sample my socks every change under the scope and can't find dinos, I also let the bucket stand for awhile when I vacuum the sand and sample it at the bottom, middle and top and nothing.


cal_stir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 11:34 AM   #1503
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_stir View Post
I wonder if you went too fast, I let my cyano go for about 4 weeks before I chemicleaned it, I controlled it by sucking it up with a baster when it was getting too heavy. I also let the green micro algae grow on the glass until I could barely see through it, about 3 or 4 days. I turned my skimmer on when hair algae was starting to grow on the back glass, scraped it off with a scraper.
I maintained my no3 @ 3ppm (sulphur denitrator) and po4 @ .03 (lanthanum chloride)

I sample my socks every change under the scope and can't find dinos, I also let the bucket stand for awhile when I vacuum the sand and sample it at the bottom, middle and top and nothing.
Some of it could be diatoms the more I think about it. However, there's still some dinos.



I've had dinos and cyano for months. The cyano actually went from being purple to green and I thought it was actually green algae but it was matted like Cyano and turned black as soon as I dose chmiclean. I did not remove it first. I killed it, then sucked it all up via water change. Perhaps that caused a mini cycle. Snails are all over the brown stuff however.


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 11:50 AM   #1504
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,567
I think chemicals only help dinos. Other than absorbing media, I'm very cautious of using algae killers or removers.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 11:53 AM   #1505
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
definitely, but Dinos and Cyano have a symbiotic relationship so I wanted to terminate the cyano.


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 12:48 PM   #1506
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_stir View Post
I maintained my no3 @ 3ppm (sulphur denitrator) and po4 @ .03 (lanthanum chloride)
Where did you get these things?


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 04:34 PM   #1507
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,516
I don't know that it's generally true that cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates have some sort of symbiotic relation. That's possible, but I think we see a lot of blooms that are fairly heavily dominated by one or the other.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 04:46 PM   #1508
EvMiBo
VictoriaConcordiaCrescit
 
EvMiBo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Posts: 2,022
Question about dosing micro fauna: are Copepods and amphipods actively eating cyano, Dino's etc? Would it be better to not dose as much phytoplankton initially to force the pods to eat undesirable things like cyano, Dino's, algae?


__________________
Evan | DSA 135g Peninsula
EvMiBo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 05:05 PM   #1509
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
I don't know that it's generally true that cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates have some sort of symbiotic relation. That's possible, but I think we see a lot of blooms that are fairly heavily dominated by one or the other.
Correct, I don't think its generally across the board. But it does happen. I have to find the article I read. Don't know if its related to specific types.


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 05:08 PM   #1510
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvMiBo View Post
Question about dosing micro fauna: are Copepods and amphipods actively eating cyano, Dino's etc? Would it be better to not dose as much phytoplankton initially to force the pods to eat undesirable things like cyano, Dino's, algae?
Could be a combination of eating and the phyto out competing them. After all, diatoms, cyano, dinos and green phyto are all types of "phyto plankton".


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 05:09 PM   #1511
cal_stir
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: corunna,ontario,canada
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrnalnrsh View Post
Where did you get these things?
I use Brightwell Aquatic Posphat-e and dose it in a 10Um filter sock.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Brightwel...ADSAPR-vi.html

I have a diy sulphur denitrator, similar to this
http://www.marinedepot.com/Korallin_...FRISDN-vi.html


cal_stir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 05:45 PM   #1512
cal_stir
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: corunna,ontario,canada
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvMiBo View Post
Question about dosing micro fauna: are Copepods and amphipods actively eating cyano, Dino's etc? Would it be better to not dose as much phytoplankton initially to force the pods to eat undesirable things like cyano, Dino's, algae?
There's a lot more to micro fauna than copepods and amphipods, the phyto feeds most of it and being live I believe it competes directly with dinos and the nutrients the dinos are thriving on.


cal_stir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 05:56 PM   #1513
EvMiBo
VictoriaConcordiaCrescit
 
EvMiBo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Posts: 2,022
I know there's a lot more to micro fauna but amphipods, Copepods and phyto is really all I'm willing to try and culture.

I just wonder if adding Copepods and amphipods before feeding phyto would work better in initially getting rid of cyano, Dino's, etc. then when the population out competes cyano and Dino's start feeding phyto. Improbably over thinking it hah.


__________________
Evan | DSA 135g Peninsula
EvMiBo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 06:29 PM   #1514
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,516
History seems to indicate that most people don't find animals that eat cyanobacteria or dinoflagellates, at least not enough to solve the problem. You might get lucky, though.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 07:13 PM   #1515
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
History seems to indicate that most people don't find animals that eat cyanobacteria or dinoflagellates, at least not enough to solve the problem. You might get lucky, though.
This is why I support a multi-prong approach. Increasing bio-fauna is great. I got fresh live rock, pods, etc...

But I also went on the offensive with UV


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 07:22 PM   #1516
cal_stir
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: corunna,ontario,canada
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvMiBo View Post
I know there's a lot more to micro fauna but amphipods, Copepods and phyto is really all I'm willing to try and culture.

I just wonder if adding Copepods and amphipods before feeding phyto would work better in initially getting rid of cyano, Dino's, etc. then when the population out competes cyano and Dino's start feeding phyto. Improbably over thinking it hah.
I did add pods and pods+ prior to dosing phyto, about 4 weeks prior, but once I started the phyto it was like the final nail in the coffin.


cal_stir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2015, 07:26 PM   #1517
EvMiBo
VictoriaConcordiaCrescit
 
EvMiBo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Posts: 2,022
Okay good to know. Great info here.


__________________
Evan | DSA 135g Peninsula
EvMiBo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/10/2015, 08:29 AM   #1518
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,511
It's been two weeks since I added more live rock and sand.
Since there was no visible sign of anything positive after a week I did another test.

I added a dead shrimp in a plastic mesh to the tank and let it rot.
That has been going on for a week and now I'm on my second shrimp.

This was done to see if the dinos disliked the additional ammonia.
They don't seem to care at all, but there is a pleasant side effect going on.

The rest of my SPS, fingernail sized brown leftovers, are showing their polyps for the first time in months.
There is some color also showing in their tissue.

My tank has been going through phases like this for years so ...


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/10/2015, 08:30 AM   #1519
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,511
Maybe I should look into diatoms as my weapon of choice?


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/10/2015, 09:26 AM   #1520
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
It's been two weeks since I added more live rock and sand.
Since there was no visible sign of anything positive after a week I did another test.

I added a dead shrimp in a plastic mesh to the tank and let it rot.
That has been going on for a week and now I'm on my second shrimp.

This was done to see if the dinos disliked the additional ammonia.
They don't seem to care at all, but there is a pleasant side effect going on.

The rest of my SPS, fingernail sized brown leftovers, are showing their polyps for the first time in months.
There is some color also showing in their tissue.

My tank has been going through phases like this for years so ...
I was reading something yesterday where the person raised their nitrates to beat back the dinos. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1620464


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/10/2015, 09:33 AM   #1521
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,567
I think there's a misconception about nutrients and corals. I had it for a long time and I'm convinced that it's a myth. I could be wrong, but here goes.

Nitrates and Phosphates are not evil. They don't kill corals on contact and they are actually necessary for a healthy thriving system. In nature, the export mechanisms are so healthy that the flow of nutrients is balanced (in and out) that the corals can grow with little competition from algae or dinos, etc...

It's like dieting by eliminating all fat and sugars. It's extreme and not healthy.

There is a happy middle place.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/10/2015, 07:03 PM   #1522
Adrnalnrsh
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
So good news is most of the brown stuff I recently saw was in fact diatoms. Now I'm starting to see very short patches of green hair algae.

What dinos I did see have disappeared and only ones left appear to be fading away and don't have any bubbles.

Phosphates were at .1 on Saturday and am waiting on new Nitrate kit as I am not sure what they are.


Adrnalnrsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/10/2015, 07:16 PM   #1523
cal_stir
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: corunna,ontario,canada
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrnalnrsh View Post
So good news is most of the brown stuff I recently saw was in fact diatoms. Now I'm starting to see very short patches of green hair algae.

What dinos I did see have disappeared and only ones left appear to be fading away and don't have any bubbles.

Phosphates were at .1 on Saturday and am waiting on new Nitrate kit as I am not sure what they are.
I went until the hair algae was starting on the back glass, let it go for a couple days, scraped it off and started my skimmer back up.


cal_stir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/12/2015, 07:09 AM   #1524
EvMiBo
VictoriaConcordiaCrescit
 
EvMiBo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Posts: 2,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I think there's a misconception about nutrients and corals. I had it for a long time and I'm convinced that it's a myth. I could be wrong, but here goes.

Nitrates and Phosphates are not evil. They don't kill corals on contact and they are actually necessary for a healthy thriving system. In nature, the export mechanisms are so healthy that the flow of nutrients is balanced (in and out) that the corals can grow with little competition from algae or dinos, etc...

It's like dieting by eliminating all fat and sugars. It's extreme and not healthy.

There is a happy middle place.
furthermore, there are several thriving, well established/mature systems that have what most would consider "high" nitrates and phosphates.


__________________
Evan | DSA 135g Peninsula
EvMiBo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/12/2015, 11:38 AM   #1525
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,567
This is posted in another thread. Just passing it along here

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/phosphate-cycle


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:36 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014