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Old 09/05/2015, 11:44 PM   #1726
Adrnalnrsh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
in order...

Stop chemicals + stop carbon dosing = stop killing their competition
lights off + slow flow high power uv + heavy skim ... Dead dinos + export dead dinos
pods + phyto + refugium = rebalanced nature
feed more = healthy bacteria & algae reset.
+1


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Old 09/06/2015, 08:36 AM   #1727
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I will bet you a Canadian 2-dollar coin that the square will get covered within a day or two. ivy
Today the dinos have settled once more and the square is still there, just like yesterday, shining bright in contrast to the rusty surroundings.

---

Nice suggestions on the live rock by the way.


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Old 09/06/2015, 03:28 PM   #1728
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Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Today the dinos have settled once more and the square is still there, just like yesterday, shining bright in contrast to the rusty surroundings.
If you've invented dino-repelling plastic you can retire rich.

Hm, I wonder if I can tape some plastic to my glass.

Ivy


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 09/06/2015, 03:35 PM   #1729
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Just saw this and had to share. Looks to me like Dinos harbouring Bacteria

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/35761...unk/?p=4956666
Wow, that's some freaky..whatever that is. The margins are so clear and defined it looks like a sponge or other bigger organism, with dinos on top. I'd love to see that stuff under a microscope. Did you direct them to this thread?

My dinos look a bit similar (but way messier):
[IMG][/IMG]

Ivy


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 09/06/2015, 10:07 PM   #1730
Adrnalnrsh
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Wow, that's some freaky..whatever that is. The margins are so clear and defined it looks like a sponge or other bigger organism, with dinos on top. I'd love to see that stuff under a microscope. Did you direct them to this thread?

My dinos look a bit similar (but way messier):
[IMG][/IMG]

Ivy
Mine was very similar with but more dark.

I might of mentioned it.



Last edited by Adrnalnrsh; 09/06/2015 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 09/06/2015, 11:47 PM   #1731
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Is 3 days lights out sufficient or should I go for 4


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Old 09/07/2015, 01:49 AM   #1732
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Is 3 days lights out sufficient or should I go for 4
3 to start with, depending what else you have in there. Sk8r recommends not going 100% dark if you have fish. I'd also set your skimmer to run wet and possibly add carbon. If you can't find filter socks locally, the stuffing sold for plush animals works really well to catch everything. You will want to replace it pretty much daily if there's a huge die off.

Did the aiptasia x do anything good?

hth
ivy


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15

Last edited by Quiet_Ivy; 09/07/2015 at 01:53 AM. Reason: filters!
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Old 09/07/2015, 08:24 AM   #1733
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Maybe you folks on this thread can help me out. What algae is it that you can see when you shut all the pumps off and inject air bubbles? I can't see it with my eyes, but if I inject a bunch of microbubbles and shut the pumps off you can see the bubbles form strands.

Any help would be appreciated

v/r

Jason


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Old 09/07/2015, 11:47 AM   #1734
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Maybe you folks on this thread can help me out. What algae is it that you can see when you shut all the pumps off and inject air bubbles? I can't see it with my eyes, but if I inject a bunch of microbubbles and shut the pumps off you can see the bubbles form strands.

Any help would be appreciated

v/r

Jason
Well, I get a clear snot like formation with very short strands on my glass. It's NOT the usual yellow tinted stuff I have everywhere else and I can only see it when my skimmer's having conniptions and ejecting microbubbles. It's impossible to get a good picture of it and it doesn't really feel like anything.

That said, I don't know that it's dinoflagellates. Many types of green algae can be clear before they get going with the chlorophyll. Hydroids can be clear and have long filaments. It could even be a bacterial overgrowth (not likely in my tank but if you are carbon dosing perhaps in yours). Is it bothering any of the animals in your tank?

not too specific on a rainy, cold Labour Day
Ivy


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 09/07/2015, 01:13 PM   #1735
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.
The square is still there.

Last year I did jet another of my brilliant tests.
I siphoned off the top layer of sand into a bucket and let it dry out killing loads of dinos.
Some months later I dumped all the sand back into the tank, knowing there were lots of toxins going in with it.
A Royal Gramma and a pair of Mandarins died in the days that followed.
Much of the dino population disappeared as well.

The square test and the dead dino tests are virtually the same.
I'm theorizing that Ostreopsis dinoflagellates can't tolerate their own toxins.
This is the limiting factor on dino densities I've been looking for since day one.
In the ocean dino blooms get much denser than in reef tanks because the vast ocean carries and dilutes the toxins from the dead dinos.

Did we just reach another milestone?


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Old 09/07/2015, 01:44 PM   #1736
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Not convinced yet?

Many of us have seen their dinos bloom right after water changes.
The toxins got dilluted.

The dirty method: Turn off the skimmer and filters and let the toxins build up.
The clean method: Kill the dinos with UV and let the toxins build up.


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Old 09/07/2015, 01:50 PM   #1737
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
3 to start with, depending what else you have in there. Sk8r recommends not going 100% dark if you have fish. I'd also set your skimmer to run wet and possibly add carbon. If you can't find filter socks locally, the stuffing sold for plush animals works really well to catch everything. You will want to replace it pretty much daily if there's a huge die off.

Did the aiptasia x do anything good?

hth
ivy
Aiptasia X Killed the Dino sections that I treated.


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Old 09/07/2015, 01:51 PM   #1738
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After 3 days lights out, sand bed is free of dinos. However, after 3 hours of lights on today, I am starting to notice bubbles on my rocks starting to form. It held them back a little, but they will come again.


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Old 09/07/2015, 02:46 PM   #1739
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They're opportunistic feeders. They live on light and killing other plankton or eating waste.

They can go without light indefinitely- certainly outlast anything you're trying to keep alive.

Lights out just forces them into the water column so you can take action on them.

What are you doing to extract them during the lights out?


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Old 09/07/2015, 02:52 PM   #1740
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They're opportunistic feeders. They live on light and killing other plankton or eating waste.

They can go without light indefinitely- certainly outlast anything you're trying to keep alive.

Lights out just forces them into the water column so you can take action on them.

What are you doing to extract them during the lights out?
Skimmer and carbon..

Before I did lights on, I did a water change also.

I see brown formation on rocks now. No bubble. But drown formation, looks like diatoms. But I know it's not. It's the beginning of hell.


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Old 09/07/2015, 03:01 PM   #1741
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I don't think that's enough... Use UV or something else to kill them before the skimmer... Or use a large fine filter net. You need to break their critical mass long enough for other life to take their place.


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Old 09/07/2015, 05:14 PM   #1742
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UPdate.

bad:
Sucks to be me! 3 day blackout..actually made them *worse*. I see very suspicious brown stuff on my sandbed for the first time. Also there's some goo on a previously clean rock that needs attention. I think the blackouts are just providing a strong evolutionary pressure to go mixotrophic/non photosynthetic. The yellow haze didn't get knocked back at all.

good:
Sacrificial cowrie is still ok. (Got from someone who had a population explosion and thought they'd starve) Only been 5 days tho. Serpent star and hermit still hanging in there.

So tldr version..I've done all the inexpensive things. Reduced lights/blackouts, no filtration (except some carbon), overfeeding, using tap water for top offs (yes, really), adding skimmate from a tank with no dinos, dosing tiny amounts of ammonia, Phyto and pods have failed.

Spend close to 200$ on 6kg of live rock? I can't get real live sand. Spend about $30 on dinoX? It's a lot of money to spend on my empty tank that I can't even have animals in. I'm nearing the end of my patience I think. Brilliant ideas anyone?

blah,
Ivy


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 09/07/2015, 05:31 PM   #1743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
.
The square is still there.

Last year I did jet another of my brilliant tests.
I siphoned off the top layer of sand into a bucket and let it dry out killing loads of dinos.
Some months later I dumped all the sand back into the tank, knowing there were lots of toxins going in with it. A Royal Gramma and a pair of Mandarins died in the days that followed. Much of the dino population disappeared as well.

The square test and the dead dino tests are virtually the same.
I'm theorizing that Ostreopsis dinoflagellates can't tolerate their own toxins.
This is the limiting factor on dino densities I've been looking for since day one.

Did we just reach another milestone?

Most of the authors (Borneman, Calfo, Fenner) I've read on dinos say the bloom will burn itself out. That would be consistent with your toxin theory, and what happens in nature. Sure isn't happening in my tank though. Possibly 'burn out' doesn't happen until every living thing in there is dead and the nutrients are gone. Many natural dino blooms are seasonal- we may not have the cues, light or temp or whatever, that tells them to knock it off.

You lost fish that depend heavily/solely on pod population. Significant? Or were they just the smallest fish you had? I would have predicted worsening of dinos as the sand might have contained cysts.

Scraping and siphoning anything in my tank has been very dangerous; I've had animals die every time I got carried away with cleaning. You didn't have success with the recycled skimmate additions though, did you? I tried it on my tank and it made things much worse immediately.

The most frustrating thing is we just don't know if everyone on this thread is dealing with the same genus of dinos. Both of us seem to have more toxicity problems than 'usual' and measures others have had good success with aren't working. Do you know your dinos are Ostreopsis? I'm borrowing a scope Wed. with some luck I'll get some pics up for id.

Ivy on a rainy cold Labour day


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 09/07/2015, 06:48 PM   #1744
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can ID this? found long string of this on one rock

thank you!!!

i've attached a photo from a microscope


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Old 09/07/2015, 07:07 PM   #1745
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These look like dinos to me.
It is late over here and I don't have the time now to look into it, but they don't look like the most common ones on Algaeid.com.

You can see the groves they have and those appear to be circular.




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Old 09/07/2015, 07:14 PM   #1746
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Originally Posted by mathman7728 View Post
thank you!!!

i've attached a photo from a microscope
I see what could be possibly 1 dino in that pic and I don't think it is, all I see is algae.

could be diatoms


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Old 09/07/2015, 07:26 PM   #1747
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
UPdate.

bad:
Sucks to be me! 3 day blackout..actually made them *worse*. I see very suspicious brown stuff on my sandbed for the first time. Also there's some goo on a previously clean rock that needs attention. I think the blackouts are just providing a strong evolutionary pressure to go mixotrophic/non photosynthetic. The yellow haze didn't get knocked back at all.

good:
Sacrificial cowrie is still ok. (Got from someone who had a population explosion and thought they'd starve) Only been 5 days tho. Serpent star and hermit still hanging in there.

So tldr version..I've done all the inexpensive things. Reduced lights/blackouts, no filtration (except some carbon), overfeeding, using tap water for top offs (yes, really), adding skimmate from a tank with no dinos, dosing tiny amounts of ammonia, Phyto and pods have failed.

Spend close to 200$ on 6kg of live rock? I can't get real live sand. Spend about $30 on dinoX? It's a lot of money to spend on my empty tank that I can't even have animals in. I'm nearing the end of my patience I think. Brilliant ideas anyone?

blah,
Ivy
Black out and reduced photo periods don't work.
Dinos love the sand so remove it, at least where the light shines on it.
Leave the skimmer, phos media off til green algae is growing on the glass.
Run a small amount of carbon.
10uM filter socks.
No water changes.
Run tank water through a 5uM sediment filter with a pump and change the filter every 5 days.
Keep dosing phyto.


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Old 09/07/2015, 09:36 PM   #1748
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Been awhile since I have posted any updates on my battle with dinos. Slow flow UV (57 watt aquaUV) did not kill them but does seem to help in controlling the populations. I have since tried dirty method no GFO, skimmer off for a period of time and then even tried dumping skim mate back in the tank as was suggested earlier in the thread and turning skimmer back off. Also utilize 3 day lights out periods as that knock them back for me and helps keep them in check. Have been feeding photo and have added pods as well. Tank does look better but has only been a week since the last lights out period and still have some dinos present especially on my (previously) large red dragon that I had to cut up due to stn/rtn.

So now I am getting ready to close on a house and do not have a good place for an 8 foot tank. I am going to use this move as an opportunity to do a reset. Am in the process of ordering a custom tank and stand. Plan to use all new live rock and sand from TBS so I don't just move dinos to the new tank and will have plenty of microfauna. I do want to keep my corals and fish. Any suggestions on ways to prevent dinos from hitching a ride into the new tank on my corals? I will have to move a few pieces of rock over that my few remaining larger corals are heavily encrusted on. Thanks in advance.


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Old 09/07/2015, 10:03 PM   #1749
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They will transfer. The only place your rock and corals can survive is a well established mature tank. Start a new tank with the rock you have and they will have a clean slate... And be back more powerful than ever.


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Old 09/07/2015, 10:56 PM   #1750
Quiet_Ivy
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Originally Posted by mathman7728 View Post
thank you!!!

i've attached a photo from a microscope

That looks a whole lot like coral zooxanthellae (Symbiodinium iirc). Have you been annoying your corals?


Link (can't get this to paste in, sorry): Zooxanthellae


Poking through planktonnet (fun for the whole family it also looks a bit like a Lepidodinium aka Gymnodinium spp.
Here's a pic:

Anyway does look like a dinoflagellate..

hth a bit,
Ivy


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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