Reef Central Online Community
Marine Depot

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 11/27/2015, 11:10 AM   #2251
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,650
They don't like swings in most any parameter like salinity, nitrates, phosphates, etc. They also may not like higher nutrient levels like nitrates.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2015, 01:28 PM   #2252
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Any recommendations



Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2015, 07:50 PM   #2253
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Anyone ever use cuprisorb for dinoflagellate problem


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2015, 08:17 PM   #2254
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,731
why would copper have a role here?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2015, 09:00 PM   #2255
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
why would copper have a role here?
Just researched and came across this thread
http://166.78.194.236/forums/showthread.php?t=2395870


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2015, 09:38 PM   #2256
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
Just researched and came across this thread
http://166.78.194.236/forums/showthread.php?t=2395870
All I got out of that was the potential to use other methods and it wont hurt to try. Which, it would not hurt to try. Polyfilter then should work as well. However, if it was coper or iron I have my doubts that cuprisorb, polyfilter, or any media that absorbs heavy metals would work especially in the long run.

That is if we can trust Tritons results which detected no heavy metals with in their limits of detection in my system at the same time I was experiencing the dinos blooming. I'll have a second round of triton test results back again soon at the same time the dinos were in full bloom.

So, if they need a very small trace amount under what Triton could detect and if cuprisorb could possibly remove that very small trace amount of what ever heavy metal the dinos consume like iron then you would be fighting a loosing battle. As all saltmixes, including ocean saltwater, and the food you feed has very small trace amounts of those heavy metals. In fact that's a good thing as they are necessary. Even copper is used but only at very small trace amounts.

Also, I just started dosing iron about a week ago to help feed my turf scrubber. The past week my dinos have been dying back. If they really wanted Iron they should be getting strong now that I'm dosing it.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2015, 10:30 PM   #2257
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,731
Sounds like coincidence more than causation on the cuprisorb... IMO


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/28/2015, 04:42 PM   #2258
mathman7728
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 230
use chemiclean first (wonder if the stuff on the sand is cyno), then go with dirty method as described in this thread


mathman7728 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 08:14 AM   #2259
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,512
We agree on that dinos can be brought in by treatments, events and mistakes.
At first glance it seems like we are removing something that suppresses dinos, but what is it?

Microfauna, bacteria, plankton, chemical or nutrient balance or something else?
In a closed system like our tanks a decimated organism is simply gone for good while in the ocean the currents keep the organic soup mixed.

None of us has gone all the way in replacing the microfauna and small changes do only good temporarily.
Someone with a small tank is an excellent candidate for this. New live sand and live rock and water from the ocean is what I have in mind.

.

It is close to half a year since I added 80 pounds of live rock and now I'm seeing a decline in my SPS corals, just like I predicted.
I've seen it so many times it was simply inevitable. Only this time it took a bit longer than usual.
During this period I saw corals that were long dead come back to live and it only took a week for things to improve from when the rock was added.
About half of corals, this condition brings down, escape with a few polylps and a small hope for a recovery.

.

Since I restarted the tank around two years ago my SPS are dead or doing really poorly while a single head of hammer coral has grown to the size of a basketball.
Another strange thing is that Turbinaria and Acroporas take turn in growing well. While one grows the other declines.

Peace - DNA


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 08:34 AM   #2260
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,731
I think we also connected the dinos to bacteria.

So, depending on who's winning the bacterial war, that may influence the ability of dinos to gain ground.

I don't know if there's a bacterial strain that stacks the odds in our favor.

Have we tried nuking with antibacterial (erythromycin) and/or antiseptics (hydrogen peroxide) and then adding a heavy cocktail of bacteria from known sources (Fritz TurboStart 900, Safestart, MicroBacter, Cycle, BioSpira, Colony, Stability, TSS, etc...)?

It would certainly take out the red slime, but the unknown consequences (side effects) could (& probably would) wreck the tank. The biggest hit would be to non-nitrifying coral-biome bacteria that wouldn't come from a bottle.

If it's do or die...


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

Last edited by karimwassef; 11/29/2015 at 08:43 AM.
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 03:20 PM   #2261
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,512
Dino time lapse tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2vtlygKENo


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 03:28 PM   #2262
acabgd
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
Anyone ever use cuprisorb for dinoflagellate problem
I'm trying Cuprisorb as most other methods didn't work. Well, not most - all.

I've also read several threads about Cuprisorb and dinos. It's not directly connected to copper, but rather to iron, or some other unknown that Cuprisorb seems to absorb and get out of the tank.

I just started last Thursday in high-flow area in the sump (Seachem says no reactor!) and I can see a small change. Some places like the back wall have visibly less dinos, even some totally clean patches.

However, it's still early to say if it's really due to Cuprisorb. From what I've read, it takes at least a month to see significant results - and whether it works at all.


acabgd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 05:11 PM   #2263
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,731
If metals were the problem, a macroalgae refugium (chaeto) would have fixed it as long as the chaeto is actively exported.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 05:17 PM   #2264
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,731
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/

What Randy said ..


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 10:12 PM   #2265
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by acabgd View Post
I'm trying Cuprisorb as most other methods didn't work. Well, not most - all.

I've also read several threads about Cuprisorb and dinos. It's not directly connected to copper, but rather to iron, or some other unknown that Cuprisorb seems to absorb and get out of the tank.

.
I can't tell what that is in the pics. The colour sure looks like dinos or diatoms, but I've currently got a cyano vs dinos battle happening and the stupid things are exactly the same colour. (Checked with my microscope. Are the dinos eating cyano and picking up the colour? I think the cyano is actually winning)

Yea, I saw that thread on cuprisorb when researching around. I'm dubious. Plants love iron, sure. But I've had enormous clumps of actively growing chaeto during the worst of the dinos. I've also run a lot of Polyfilter (to take out dino toxins), and it should have depleted any heavy metals in my tank given no water changes.

@jason Well, I'd expect a bad attack of anything algae, dinos, cyano, to take everything below the detection limit.

@karimwassef I've tried dosing Stability and it removed the cyano very well, but only if I added enough to provoke a small bacterial bloom. I got nervous about the hazy water and stopped. I *think* it reduced the dinos as well but my pics from that time don't show much of a change. You couldn't pay me to deliberately nuke my tank's microbio, that's how people get unkillable dino infestations! You'll never hit all the cysts.

hth
ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 10:21 PM   #2266
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post

It is close to half a year since I added 80 pounds of live rock and now I'm seeing a decline in my SPS corals, just like I predicted.
I've seen it so many times it was simply inevitable. Only this time it took a bit longer than usual.
Do you have any theories as to why your tank declines so fast after you add rock? It just seems awfully fast.

I'm still convinced dinos are an ecosystem problem at the micro level. All the factors you mention are interrelated and our tiny tanks just don't have redundant capacity. So perhaps in your tank you can't keep a particular strain of bacteria going because something is taking it out, while in my tank I lost that little Oxyrrhis guy and the pods couldn't eat enough dinos to stop the takeover. That's why imho various methods work, they're different approaches to the same thing: increasing microbiodiversity. Take out one leg of the stool and I'm going to fall on my behind. If I'm sitting in a dining room chair, take out one leg and I'm still good. So I think it's not all doom and gloom, even though we're missing something, another bacteria/animal may come along to take its place.

I wish I lived closer to the sea; it's 2000km to the Pacific, and the reefs out there are cold water.

ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 10:54 PM   #2267
Mikefromaz
Registered Member
 
Mikefromaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Arizona (well it was an ocean once :)
Posts: 331
Back in the middle of dino paradise again....sheesh! My last outbreak was stopped through aggressive tank maintenance, UV sterilizer and a lot of phyto and pods. This time I have decided to use daily siphoning and hydrogen peroxide. Any input or personal experiences with H2O2 against dinos would be appreciated.


Mikefromaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/2015, 11:39 PM   #2268
Jewilson83
Registered Member
 
Jewilson83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rochester, N.Y.
Posts: 415
I tried to do the glass test to determine if I have Dino. I can't find the link anywhere that I found. I remember it saying that if you put a napkin on the top of the glass and add your tank water through it. With ambient lighting in about an hour the Dino will connect to each other. I'm wondering if comparing to the glass test, is the Dino?


__________________
If you knew better, you would do better....... 😏

Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon: Coralife Aqualife Pro 492W MH, Proflex Model 3 Refugium Sump, Jabeo WP-25 wavemaker, Bubble Magnus NAC6, Finnex 500W heater w/controller, Mag 9.5 Pump, SPS, LPS, Zoas, RBTAs, Fishes, Shrimps, Crabs, CUC, and Snails
Jewilson83 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2015, 11:32 AM   #2269
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefromaz View Post
This time I have decided to use daily siphoning and hydrogen peroxide.
I've tried that with Ostreopsis and it's a complete waist of time.
Siphoning I still do but only when doing water changes. It will leave at big dent for a few hours.


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2015, 11:34 AM   #2270
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewilson83 View Post
I'm wondering if comparing to the glass test, is the Dino?
Dinos will not always react the same way so I think this test is not a good one even though it can give a good indication if they do connect. Mine used to do just that, but it's a rare sight today.


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2015, 11:39 AM   #2271
Jewilson83
Registered Member
 
Jewilson83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rochester, N.Y.
Posts: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Dinos will not always react the same way so I think this test is not a good one even though it can give a good indication if they do connect. Mine used to do just that, but it's a rare sight today.

Cool thanks


__________________
If you knew better, you would do better....... 😏

Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon: Coralife Aqualife Pro 492W MH, Proflex Model 3 Refugium Sump, Jabeo WP-25 wavemaker, Bubble Magnus NAC6, Finnex 500W heater w/controller, Mag 9.5 Pump, SPS, LPS, Zoas, RBTAs, Fishes, Shrimps, Crabs, CUC, and Snails
Jewilson83 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2015, 02:30 PM   #2272
Dfee
Registered Member
 
Dfee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 105
DNA- you have sps, right? Why do you do water changes? Have you tried carbon dosing? I want to try carbon dosing , but haven't found a good answer yet for how Dino will behave

Billy- have you tried dirty method plus daily siphoning? Put the hose into you sump in a filter sock. That worked for me - they came back less and less everyday. ... Plus over feeding and pods and phyto.

Definitely still need to stay away from water changes - they come back every time. But now I somehow got my nitrates high and unsure what to do about them. Chaeto won't grow- probably cause no po4. Thinking about carbon dosing still


Dfee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2015, 07:43 PM   #2273
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewilson83 View Post
I tried to do the glass test to determine if I have Dino. I can't find the link anywhere that I found. I remember it saying that if you put a napkin on the top of the glass and add your tank water through it. With ambient lighting in about an hour the Dino will connect to each other. I'm wondering if comparing to the glass test, is the Dino?
Doesn't look like dinos, but Sonnus' test has a few 'buts'. I know I have Ostreopsis, confirmed with a microscope, and the test doesn't work for me anymore because my dinos are in a thin film rather than big clumps. It used to be scary when I siphoned the tank. To get a really strong result you have to have about a tablespoon of suspect gunk, it has to be shaken until it's blended almost smooth, and it may take stronger light to see definite results.

Here's the link to his/her post: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2531708

hth
ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2015, 07:50 PM   #2274
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefromaz View Post
Back in the middle of dino paradise again....sheesh! My last outbreak was stopped through aggressive tank maintenance, UV sterilizer and a lot of phyto and pods. This time I have decided to use daily siphoning and hydrogen peroxide. Any input or personal experiences with H2O2 against dinos would be appreciated.
Sorry to hear you're back for round 2. Do you know what brought on the attack? Peroxide didn't do squat for me, even at much higher than recommended doses, but I also have Ostreopsis. (I didn't have fish or inverts at the time I was dosing it.) It's extremely dangerous to decorative shrimp and small fish. If you still have the UV you should be able to knock them down again with your previous method..

hth
ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2015, 07:54 PM   #2275
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
[QUOTE=Dfee;24156896] I want to try carbon dosing , but haven't found a good answer yet for how Dino will behave
QUOTE]

Why don't you add phosphate? Or add biospira/stability/etc. Carbon dosing is supposed to increase bacterial populations, but may feed the dinos. Adding bacteria directly should skip the middle man so to speak, and still drop nitrate.

hth
ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:38 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014