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Old 03/23/2016, 08:41 PM   #3426
Billybatz9
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Tank was doing good today. Dosed cal And alk, end of day, entire left panel was filled with dinos. All brown. Wtfff


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Old 03/23/2016, 09:35 PM   #3427
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That's what I used: 10 micron sock .. it was disgusting and got clogged constantly... it was POOL size too.

I won't try that again.


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Old 03/23/2016, 09:58 PM   #3428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertifly View Post
Ok who was wanting some live dinos shipped to them to experiment on, I'll be glad to send some if you can tell me how to ship,, I'll even pay the charges just tell me how you like to have them, what kind to I have? UGLY seriously I haven't a clue. Robert
I do still want live dinos - even more if they are toxic. I'll send you a PM with my shipping info.

Dfee,thanks so much. I got your sample a few days ago, put it under the scope that night.
Saw almost exclusively diatoms. almost nothing living.
https://goo.gl/photos/fwjbcZ67QqobamDm6
the brown discoloration in the rag was also diatoms
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...4pC1XxD1NGe9KG

took many samples, and after a lot of looking I am uncertain. I did find a few weird clear shapes of similar size and shape repeated often enough to make me wonder if it was the theca (armor) that came off of a dead dino.
https://goo.gl/photos/5xmgsmBBcHLUpu9E9

then I found a brown pigmented blob of similar size and shape that bore resemblance to a dino
https://goo.gl/photos/HTW1iWNQnnhtKFBL6
zoomed in
https://goo.gl/photos/HVByH74DrFdZDXuJ6

short vid changing focal plane. there's some sort of dino-like structure to it.
https://goo.gl/photos/9oDznmRqkZtohY9bA

I didn't post while I tried to look for possible IDs. Didn't have much luck there. While it's an unusual shape, there are a lot of lumpy shaped dinos...
like (that's an amphidiniopsis)


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Old 03/23/2016, 10:18 PM   #3429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
I dug one of these reports up again and it said benthic, and by that I think they mean short turf like algae and that I have seen plenty of.

I've never seen dinos on my caulerpa, chaeato or other algae that does not stay close to the ground.
Saw some slight brown strings from the exposed "roots" of my caulerpa


And under the scope, dinos!




So many weird shapes. Like an artichoke?


Lots of reports of "epiphytic" dinos in the literature, all kinds of funky shapes.


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Old 03/24/2016, 04:50 AM   #3430
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Of course we have endless species of microscopic life in our tanks which is good.
We just don't want them to bloom, that's it.

I like this cooperation that's going on here.
Unfortunate that you didn't get a definite outcome.


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Old 03/24/2016, 06:34 AM   #3431
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Over the last 3 weeks or so I've done around 10 siphons of the sandbed.
One would expect to get less and less gunk out when it's done this frequently, but that is not the case.
The amounts are simply amazing every time.

I took a closer look at the lightest particles and found one type of special interest.
It has the color and similar shape to my ostis but is more uniform, larger and they don't move.
I kept wondering if these are cysts so I melted all the calcium based particles off just to get that possibility out of the way.
It surely looks organic.

Being in their millions in the sand that is close to solely inhabited with dinos it's tempting to assume they are cysts.


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Old 03/24/2016, 07:03 AM   #3432
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Has anyone had any issues with a bubble tip and blacking out their tank for 3 days? It is nicely puffed up and settled in it's spot so don't want it wandering?


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Old 03/25/2016, 08:29 AM   #3433
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Hmm , interesting. I guess that's good news. Thanks again, Taricha. The reason I thought Dino and not diatom was because they get worse throughout the day and also after water changes. I guess water changes could fuel diatoms and I just found out diatoms are photosynthetic. I didn't think they were


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Old 03/25/2016, 11:03 AM   #3434
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Hmm , interesting. I guess that's good news. Thanks again, Taricha. The reason I thought Dino and not diatom was because they get worse throughout the day and also after water changes. I guess water changes could fuel diatoms and I just found out diatoms are photosynthetic. I didn't think they were
My take is that you indeed had a dino bloom at one point, and they have since receded, to be replaced - on the glass at least - by diatoms and green film algae. I take it as signs that your tank has turned the corner on your pest. All good news.

But, I would expect any soon attempt to starve out the diatoms/green film would cause dinos to reassert themselves.


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Old 03/25/2016, 02:36 PM   #3435
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My take is that you indeed had a dino bloom at one point, and they have since receded, to be replaced - on the glass at least - by diatoms and green film algae. I take it as signs that your tank has turned the corner on your pest. All good news.



But, I would expect any soon attempt to starve out the diatoms/green film would cause dinos to reassert themselves.

Well, I haven't had long brown snotty dinos in about a year. So if they are indeed diatoms, how have they not consumed all their food (silicates) and died out by now?


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Old 03/25/2016, 03:00 PM   #3436
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when they die, they release the silicates back? It's a closed system unless you extract them with skimming or water changes.


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Old 03/25/2016, 09:25 PM   #3437
taricha
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Originally Posted by robertifly View Post
... what kind do I have? UGLY seriously I haven't a clue. Robert
I'll get pics up soon, but it looks like majority ostreopsis, although the first one I got pics of was actually prorocentrum now that I look carefully at it.


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Old 03/25/2016, 10:33 PM   #3438
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In the sample from robertifly, found some prorocentrum


One of those elaborate shaped dinophysis(?) that we never get to see in our aquariums


But mostly lots of ostreopsis. Likely o. Ovata. They were pretty well scattered from the shipping, but there were lots of them all over.



Video
https://youtu.be/mSWkI7deXk0

Full gallery here
https://goo.gl/photos/keZ7ZeXLygyhQCvU6


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Old 03/26/2016, 12:51 AM   #3439
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three days since lights have been back on...no dinos in sight...yet!

hoping I have gotten rid of them for a while...two sps rtn'd during the 4 day lights out, I suppose it was worth it though, if I can keep them from returning. On day three, vaccumed out sump/detritus with shop vac and did large water change. Also bumped my alk up to 10, to try to keep Ph up. I can't say what has resulted in my small success so far...last time I did lights out they came back like crazy a day later...will let all know if they return. Oddly enough, my coraline algae has exploded during the lights out period.


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Old 03/26/2016, 03:33 AM   #3440
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three days since lights have been back on...no dinos in sight...yet!

hoping I have gotten rid of them for a while...two sps rtn'd during the 4 day lights out, I suppose it was worth it though, if I can keep them from returning. On day three, vaccumed out sump/detritus with shop vac and did large water change. Also bumped my alk up to 10, to try to keep Ph up. I can't say what has resulted in my small success so far...last time I did lights out they came back like crazy a day later...will let all know if they return. Oddly enough, my coraline algae has exploded during the lights out period.
I'd guess your coraline is doing good because you corals are miserable and most likely not growing at all.
Two of them were is such a bad shape that a short darkness finished them.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfee View Post
Well, I haven't had long brown snotty dinos in about a year. So if they are indeed diatoms, how have they not consumed all their food (silicates) and died out by now?
It's been a few years for me.

---

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Nice pictures.
I've got hundreds, after way to many years, from a futile battlle.


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Old 03/26/2016, 07:18 AM   #3441
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when they die, they release the silicates back? It's a closed system unless you extract them with skimming or water changes.
No, their shells are not soluble at the pressure levels in our tanks. They will dissolve deeper in the ocean.


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Old 03/26/2016, 02:06 PM   #3442
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Over the last 3 weeks or so I've done around 10 siphons of the sandbed.
One would expect to get less and less gunk out when it's done this frequently, but that is not the case.
The amounts are simply amazing every time.

I took a closer look at the lightest particles and found one type of special interest.
It has the color and similar shape to my ostis but is more uniform, larger and they don't move.
I kept wondering if these are cysts so I melted all the calcium based particles off just to get that possibility out of the way.
It surely looks organic.

Being in their millions in the sand that is close to solely inhabited with dinos it's tempting to assume they are cysts.
I calculated the average size of these particles to 44 microns, examined the photographs further and compared to material found on the web.
The size is good for both cysts and cells and since they come in various sizes it's not a dead giveaway.

The shape is a close, but not a perfect match to cysts so I think what I have are regular dinos that have lost their cell wall. (theca)
If that is the case all dead dinos do that since there is no other form found in the sample of thousands.


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Old 03/27/2016, 02:29 PM   #3443
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After reading this thread twice I got no answers.
So over the course of 3 weeks I;
Weekly 100% water changes with IO (no organics)
Loaded up my carbon reactor.
Double the gfo I was running.
Raised my ph to 11
Ran my tank with blue lights only
Changed my felt socks 3 times a day.
Removed all sand.

Today I can find not a trace. Corals look good even they were exposed to the air for 30 minutes. Dinos are probably still there so I will continue this process for another two weeks.


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Old 03/27/2016, 04:17 PM   #3444
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Mike I applaud you for taking affirmative action and I certainly hope continued (Dino Free) success. I know we are all as frustrated as you are, seems like someone should have found a tried and true method to eliminate these things by now. I only hope we can all keep trying and sharing as you have, maybe we'll have an answer soon.


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Old 03/27/2016, 04:24 PM   #3445
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Hope so. I meant raised alk to 11.


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Old 03/27/2016, 10:32 PM   #3446
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I've definitely confirmed what I already knew and that dinos (not just the good kinds) still live in my tank. They just don't flourish or at least show that they do in my display tank.

And I have doubts that any tank that has shown dino issues in the past are ever truly pest dino free.


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Old 03/28/2016, 01:40 AM   #3447
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Originally Posted by jason2459 View Post
I've definitely confirmed what I already knew and that dinos (not just the good kinds) still live in my tank. They just don't flourish or at least show that they do in my display tank.

And I have doubts that any tank that has shown dino issues in the past are ever truly pest dino free.
I doubt any tank is dino or dino cyst free. It's like saying that a tank is bacteria free.


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Old 03/28/2016, 07:14 AM   #3448
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Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I doubt any tank is dino or dino cyst free. It's like saying that a tank is bacteria free.
I agree but I don't like all encompassing ALL statements.


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Old 03/28/2016, 10:10 AM   #3449
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Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Over the last 3 weeks or so I've done around 10 siphons of the sandbed.
One would expect to get less and less gunk out when it's done this frequently, but that is not the case.
The amounts are simply amazing every time.

I took a closer look at the lightest particles and found one type of special interest.
It has the color and similar shape to my ostis but is more uniform, larger and they don't move.
I kept wondering if these are cysts so I melted all the calcium based particles off just to get that possibility out of the way.
It surely looks organic.

Being in their millions in the sand that is close to solely inhabited with dinos it's tempting to assume they are cysts.
I calculated the average size of these particles to 44 microns, examined the photographs further and compared to material found on the web.
The size is good for both cysts and cells and since they come in various sizes it's not a dead giveaway.

The shape is a close, but not a perfect match to cysts so I think what I have are regular dinos that have lost their cell wall. (theca)
If that is the case all dead dinos do that since there is no other form found in the sample of thousands.
Detritus collects in my overflow box.
Today I took a sample from the bottom of it and at least 95% are these particles.
Of the rest I assume 4% to be the same particles broken up and 1% unknown.

A quick conclusion could be that 99% of the drifting ditritus in my tank is dino related.

---

Now turn on your brains and think for a while. I see this as another milestone.

.


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Old 03/28/2016, 10:29 AM   #3450
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A day of discovery.
This is the first time I see on print why the dinos and cyano like to hang out together.
+
---

Most dinoflagellates are encased in plates of armor.

Dinoflagellates are surrounded by a complex covering called the amphiesma, which consists of outer and inner continuous membranes, and between which lie a series of flattened vesicles. In armored forms, these vesicles contain the thecal plates, cellulose plates that are the "armor". This armor may be lacking (the cells are "naked"), and some species shed their theca under certain environmental conditions.

Armored dinoflagellates have two major plate regions composed of two to 100 individual plates. The edges of the plates overlap, sliding apart as the cell increases in size and allowing the cell to expand. The plates come in many varied shapes, from spherical forms like Peridinium to elongate horn-like forms such as Ceratium. In addition, some species have ridges or crests -- especially members of the Dinophysiales, such as the one shown at right. In some, the crests may be hollow and house cyanobacteria which provide fixed nitrogen to the host. This is most common in nitrogen-poor waters.


Source: http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/protista/dinoflagmm.html


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