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Old 03/14/2014, 12:40 AM   #1
kfisher109
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Sensor Mounting

I am looking for some pre-sales assistance. I'm considering both the renew & storm (with ROCv) systems, but without a physical model, I'm stumped trying to figure how the sensors would mount in my holding tanks. Suggestions?

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Old 03/14/2014, 12:47 AM   #2
kfisher109
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BTW, they are 20 gallon holding tanks. Dimensions are aprox 11" x 15" x 31". The top opening diameter is apox 4.5" wide


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Old 03/14/2014, 07:46 AM   #3
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Hi kfisher,

Those will be no problem at all. The level sensor shrouds will slide onto and hold themselves on standard 1/2" PVC pipe. All you'll need to do is cut a length of pipe the extends from just above the opening to the bottom of the bin, slide a sensor shroud with a sensor in it onto the bottom of the pipe and adjust its height to your desired minimum water level in the tank, and then install a level sensor shroud at the top end with the cover snapped onto the back side of the shroud to create a hanger. If you need additional sensors in the bin, simply slide them onto the PVC in the same manner or you can use the T-slots on the sides of the other shrouds.

I love these types of bins and use them myself. Their compact footprint makes them extremely convenient in my opinion. One thing to note: if you're using one for your top off bin (RO bin), you'll probably need to install a siphon break to prevent forward siphons since the water level in your top off bin will likely often be higher than the water level and end of the top off tubing in your sump. We offer siphon break kits in our Accessories section that are compatible with 1/2" PVC or 1/2" tubing using our Spigot x Barb adapters.

Have a great day,
Kevin


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Old 03/14/2014, 04:45 PM   #4
kfisher109
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Kevin,

Thanks for the prompt reply!

Relived to hear things will work out. You're right. The form factor of those tanks is ideal for me! if I had to choose between keeping the tanks or switching to a genesis system compatible alternative, chances are I wouldn't be getting a genesis system!!

If I'm understanding you correctly the sensor assembly will hang off the lip of the container, correct? I few other questions:

- if I need to cut a custom lengths of PVC, will I be better off buying the components a-la-cart from you rather than the bundled systems so as not to waste product?

-although all the diagrams in the manual show submersible pumps, I 'm assuming any external pump can be used as long as it meets the flow requirements, true?


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Old 03/15/2014, 01:00 AM   #5
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i have my ro/di bin 55 gal and saltwater mix bin also 55gal both on external pump. Ro/di bin have a external reeflow with an electronic solenoid that plugs into storm and opens/closes when storms judges water low in sump. 1/2 standard pvc pipe will do the job for you to place the sensors inside the holding tank.
i will post some pics.

here you should be able to see the sensors how i placed them inside the bin.




both reeflo pumps doing their jobs.


solenoid for ATO (attached to storm)


on left bin pvc ziptied to hold sensors


inside the bin i have pcv made in a way to stand up straight.


The final product



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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 03/15/2014, 05:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisher109 View Post
If I'm understanding you correctly the sensor assembly will hang off the lip of the container, correct? I few other questions:
This is correct. This works very well on this type of container because of the threaded lip, which the shroud can clamp down onto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisher109 View Post
- if I need to cut a custom lengths of PVC, will I be better off buying the components a-la-cart from you rather than the bundled systems so as not to waste product?
You'll still use everything we include with the units with the possible exception of the lengths of black PVC that are normally used in shorter tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisher109 View Post
-although all the diagrams in the manual show submersible pumps, I 'm assuming any external pump can be used as long as it meets the flow requirements, true?
External pumps can certainly be used. Submersibles are generally less expensive and easier to install though.

Have a great evening,
Kevin


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Old 03/15/2014, 05:50 PM   #7
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Hey bnumair,

The evolution of your entire aquarium system setup never ceases to impress! Great job!

Kevin


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Old 03/15/2014, 09:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenesisReefSys View Post
Hey bnumair,

The evolution of your entire aquarium system setup never ceases to impress! Great job!

Kevin
Thank you Kevin,
i am a technology junky and always evolving.
I try to post pics to guide newbies into understanding your Genesis system so they have a basic idea to a normal setup by a fellow reefer.
Anyways like always i am going to add this comment.

Best investment i made in my setup.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 03/19/2014, 04:28 PM   #9
kfisher109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnumair View Post
i have my ro/di bin 55 gal and saltwater mix bin also 55gal both on external pump. Ro/di bin have a external reeflow with an electronic solenoid that plugs into storm and opens/closes when storms judges water low in sump. 1/2 standard pvc pipe will do the job for you to place the sensors inside the holding tank.
i will post some pics.

here you should be able to see the sensors how i placed them inside the bin.




both reeflo pumps doing their jobs.


solenoid for ATO (attached to storm)


on left bin pvc ziptied to hold sensors


inside the bin i have pcv made in a way to stand up straight.


The final product

AWESOME SETUP!!

Thanks much for sharing!! Pics & diagram were EXTREMELY helpful!!


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Old 03/19/2014, 04:40 PM   #10
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Kevin,

What is the advantage of the ROCv module over a simple float valve (with back pressure cut off) on the ATO reservoir?

Am I missing something?


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Old 03/19/2014, 07:13 PM   #11
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This is the inside of the ro/di bin. Here you can see how i made the sensor holding pvc rectangle. hope it helps



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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 03/20/2014, 06:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisher109 View Post
Kevin,

What is the advantage of the ROCv module over a simple float valve (with back pressure cut off) on the ATO reservoir?

Am I missing something?
Hi kfisher,

There are a few advantages of using the ROCv™ rather than a simple float valve. The main difference that you'll see on a daily basis is the quality of water in your RO bin. Because the STORM™ and ROCv™ will refill your top off bin all at once, your RO unit will cycle only once per "RO binful" of water. In other words, if you have a 20 gallon bin, your RO unit will cycle only once per 20 gallons or so. This is important because it minimizes your TDS creep... Every time your RO unit turns on and starts producing water, the water quality is actually very low during the initial 30 seconds to one minute. After this time the water quality improves and becomes very high quality. However, if you use a mechanical float valve that tops off every time a small amount of water is used, your RO unit rarely stays on for much longer than a couple minutes. That means that what you're adding to your top off bin is not very high quality - sometimes only slightly better than your municipal supply. By refilling your top off bin all at once, the RO unit is cycled only once, meaning that almost all of the water added to the top off bin is ultra pure - and far better than water produced using the float valve method.

Second, by installing the ROCv™ between your municipal supply and your RO unit, you remove the municipal pressure from your RO membrane when it is not producing water. This extends the life of the membrane and improves the water quality during those initial minutes of the filling cycle.

Third, if you've ever had a cracked housing on an RO unit that resulted in a big wet mess on your floor, you'll appreciate the fact that the ROCv™ completely stops the flow of water to your RO unit when it is not filling your top off bin (when installed between the supply and your RO unit)... There's no longer and "endless" supply of water to your RO unit. This is why we recommend installing the ROCv™ between your supply and RO unit.

If you can't install the ROCv™ between your supply and your RO unit, you can certainly install it on the output in order to improve your water quality. It just won't provide the added benefits of extending your membrane life or completely shutting off the supply of water to your RO unit.
Hope this helps!

Kevin


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Old 03/21/2014, 04:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnumair View Post
This is the inside of the ro/di bin. Here you can see how i made the sensor holding pvc rectangle. hope it helps
The phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words" comes to mind.

Precisely what I needed to see!

Thanks!


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Old 03/22/2014, 03:35 AM   #14
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Hope this helps!



Kevin

Sold!!

I will be ordering the Renew Pro + Storm Pro Bundle next week thru my LFS

If you are able to spare another of your fantastic explanations, I could use one on the differences between the S2 & S3 modes on the Storm. Outside of the top off bin monitoring, and the "timeout" function on S2 why use one over the other?


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Old 03/23/2014, 10:25 AM   #15
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S3 Mode is really intended to be used only with very low flow rate pumps, like those you might use in conjunction with kalk reactors. Using S3 Mode will generally result in a bit more fluctuation in your sump level, depending on your particular setup. It also does not have a timeout function, so you do remove a bit of redundancy by using this mode.

In contrast, S2 Mode - the factory default mode, maintains your sump level very precisely and has multiple layers of redundancy to ensure that there are no mishaps. It will cycle numerous times per day on a typical setup to replace water that has evaporated. This is the mode that the large majority of users probably prefer.


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Old 03/23/2014, 08:48 PM   #16
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So the single low sensor in the sump in S2 mode controls both on & off?

Also, if I want to fill my salt mixing bin, can I do so by turning off the AUX outlet at the Storm module? Not clear if I can bypass the ROCv module this way. If not, I'll have to put the module on the outflow so I can run one line to ATO Bin and one to the salt bin.


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Old 03/24/2014, 06:45 AM   #17
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In S2 Mode the Sump Sensor does indeed control when the STORM™ begins a top off cycle and when it ends the cycle.

When you want to fill your mixing bin, you would turn the Auxiliary Mode to "ON" and then use a couple quarter turn valves on the output of your RO filter to divert the water from your top off bin to your mixing bin. A mechanical float valve can be installed in your mixing bin to automatically turn off your RO unit using its built in automatic shut off valve when full. The next time you walk by, simply turn the valves to direct the flow of water back to your top off bin and place the STORM™ in "ROCv™" auxiliary mode.

Have a great day,
Kevin


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Old 03/24/2014, 02:51 PM   #18
kfisher109
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In S2 Mode the Sump Sensor does indeed control when the STORM™ begins a top off cycle and when it ends the cycle.



When you want to fill your mixing bin, you would turn the Auxiliary Mode to "ON" and then use a couple quarter turn valves on the output of your RO filter to divert the water from your top off bin to your mixing bin. A mechanical float valve can be installed in your mixing bin to automatically turn off your RO unit using its built in automatic shut off valve when full. The next time you walk by, simply turn the valves to direct the flow of water back to your top off bin and place the STORM™ in "ROCv™" auxiliary mode.



Have a great day,

Kevin

Spot on, thanks!

Is there a similar work around with the Renew if I simply want to add saltwater to my sump?


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Old 03/26/2014, 11:56 AM   #19
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Hi kfisher,

There isn't a means of automatically accomplishing this via the RENEW™ at this time. Generally I think most people just pump it over manually on the occasions that require an unknown volume of salt water to be added to their sump.

Kevin


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Old 09/18/2016, 09:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnumair View Post
Thank you Kevin,
i am a technology junky and always evolving.
I try to post pics to guide newbies into understanding your Genesis system so they have a basic idea to a normal setup by a fellow reefer.
Anyways like always i am going to add this comment.

Best investment i made in my setup.
bnumair,

Where did you get your solenoid valves?

I have a pump in my sump now that feeds my UV sterilizer, I was thinking of tee'ing off this line to feed the waste water bin and just plugging the solenoid into the trigger switch on the bottom of the renew so when it was water change time it would open the valve and the existing pump would feed the waste water as well.

Thanks


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Old 09/18/2016, 08:32 PM   #21
bnumair
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http://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/
when i bought mine few yrs back they didnt have plastic valves nor bigger than 5/8" but now i looked on their site they have different sizes and plastic valves. for just RO water brass doesnt matter much but saltwater is a no no.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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