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Old 02/13/2017, 05:48 AM   #4101
taricha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Keeper82 View Post
It looks like Prorocentrum to me.

http://www.algaeid.com/identification/


+1 on prorocentrum. The only common kind I haven't had bloom in my system.


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Old 02/13/2017, 06:15 AM   #4102
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Originally Posted by Fish Keeper82 View Post
It looks like Prorocentrum to me.
http://www.algaeid.com/identification/
Will dino x or peroxide work on it?


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Old 02/13/2017, 07:49 AM   #4103
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Will dino x or peroxide work on it?
It may be worth a shot. Dino X did absolutely nothing on my Amphidinium or Ostreopsis..... only major one left from the algaeid site is Prorocentrum. You would think Dino X works on something
An LFS in my area uses Dino X and swears by it. I have seen their tanks go from clean to Dino invasion time and time again though. So it seems to not fix the main issue. Again I have no experiance with Prorocentrum type.


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Old 02/13/2017, 08:58 AM   #4104
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Can someone with a video microscope put a drop of vibrant in a sample of dinos?


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Old 02/13/2017, 10:00 AM   #4105
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I thought someone over on the other website did that, and the microscope saw bunch of moving bacteria.


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Old 02/13/2017, 10:53 AM   #4106
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But what were they doing to the dinos? Eating them? Outcompeting them?


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Old 02/13/2017, 05:44 PM   #4107
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I thought the whole idea of Vibrant was to add a bacteria that out competed the dinos for nutrients. Thus starving the Dinos. I don't think the bacteria is there to attack the Dinos.


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Old 02/13/2017, 06:09 PM   #4108
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I thought the whole idea of Vibrant was to add a bacteria that out competed the dinos for nutrients. Thus starving the Dinos. I don't think the bacteria is there to attack the Dinos.
Been using vibrant for over 2 months, zero luck on the dinos. I know there are some that have had luck


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Old 02/13/2017, 06:32 PM   #4109
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Been using vibrant for over 2 months, zero luck on the dinos. I know there are some that have had luck
I can't confirm that my tank has dinos (no microscope) although from reading tons of threads and looking at the pictures, I believe I have them.

That said, my most recent tank restart (siphoned old sand out, removed rock and replaced with clean white-dead rock, and scraped siphoned as much out of the tank) is going great with the Vibrant: I'm on my second dose and the stuff that I couldn't or didn't remove from the back wall has receded to almost 90% right now.

Like you said I think it's slowly dying because the Bacteria in the Vibrant is taking it's food source. Either way appears to working for me...


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Old 02/13/2017, 06:49 PM   #4110
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Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
But what were they doing to the dinos? Eating them? Outcompeting them?
Outcompete. But won't wipe out at least not in my case.

In the small sample of vibrant it did do something to some algae physically. Nothing that I could see against the dinos.

However, vibrant didn't effect my hair algae but eventually out competed cyano and dinos so they were knocked back to not being visually in the tank. The microscope shows both are still there.


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Old 02/14/2017, 01:13 PM   #4111
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If it's a healthy bacteria, I would support it. How would it compete with dinos but not hair algae? Not clear on why that would work.


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Old 02/16/2017, 07:58 PM   #4112
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Vibrant is worth a try, worked for me. No dinos evident 1st time in over a year! Only other changes were reduced whites from 100% to 80% and cut back amount of daily food a little. I'm happy with the tank. Took about a month totally.


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Old 03/02/2017, 05:43 PM   #4113
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I am finding this thread fascinating. "Marine Snow" is something that i had not considered before. Has anyone used a Vortex Diatom filter on tanks infested with cyano or just as a way to polish the water and remove the "Marine Snow". Has this helped with the problem?


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Old 03/02/2017, 06:35 PM   #4114
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I don't remember anyone using a diatom filter for that purpose, but it's a reasonable idea. The diatom filters are a bit tedious to use, I have been told, which might be why more people don't try them. It's possible that some searching might turn up a thread with some results.


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Old 03/18/2017, 09:16 AM   #4115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
taricha - maybe you should put a matrix table together ... name the dinos on top (left to right), and then the control variables/properties on the left (up down)...

armor
vulnerability to UV
vulnerability to Peroxide
vulnerability to Cilliate predation
Toxicity
benthic vs. night floating
Mixotrophic
.....

then we can add to the table as we learn more
Been thinking about this for a while, and as this 4000+ post thread is sorta catching it's breath, I think maybe it's a good time to take stock of what we know, and put in a somewhat accessible form.

Here's a Shared Google doc. Currently it's just an outline: I've set it to be editable by any interested party. I intend to work on filling in the outline as time permits with what we know, and hopefully convincing others to help out. It's not going to be any "new" revelations, just collection of what's out there. (but there's more success out there than people realize)
I feel like we have all the information to fill this out, it's just that the information in this guide currently exists as posts and papers and links scattered in many threads across several places connected together by the brains of users who've been following this battle.

My questions are:
#1 do we think this would be worth doing?
#2 anything about the outline that any can think should be added? other treatment methods I've overlooked? Other things people mistake for dinos, but aren't?
#3 organization of the outline, Does this make sense? Is it going to be so big it's useless? My idea is that most users would go straight to the "types of Dinos" part, figure out from pics/vids which of "the big 3" they have, and there would be a list of recommended treatment methods at the bottom of each kind of dino, then jump down to those treatments, and decide which ones they want to attempt.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

I'm gonna post the outline here just this once so people can see without clicking the link.

Quote:
Introduction
  • What are Dinoflagellates?
  • What causes them?
Types of Dinoflagellates
  • The Big 3
-Ostreopsis Ovata
-Amphidinium Sp.
-Prorocentrum Sp.
  • Others Rarely Found in Aquaria
-Amphidinium Carterae
-Symbiodinium-like (no-ID)
-Ostreopsis Lenticularis
-Coolia Sp.
-Spherical quick-spinning (no-ID)
  • Sometimes confused for Dinoflagellates
-Cyanobacteria
-Diatoms
-Ciliates
Treatment Methods
  • Mechanical
-Siphoning
-UV
-Skimming
-Dino Scrubber Floss
-Sandbed Removal
-Microfiltration/Marine Snow Removal
  • Chemical
-GFO
-Metronidazole
-Peroxide
-Vibrant
-Dino-X
-Chemi-clean
-Bleach
-Fresh Water
  • Biological/Environmental
-Live Phyto
-Pods
-Macroalgae
-High Nitrate
-High Phosphate
-Sandbed Transplant
-Algae Scrubber
  • Other
-Lights out
  • Combination Protocols
-Dirty
-Clean
-Other
Prevention



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Old 03/18/2017, 09:23 AM   #4116
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I'm done fighting mine. Tried vibrant, didn't work. Tried clean method, didn't work. Tried dirty method, didn't work. Tried live phyto and pods, didn't help. Tried a few other methods and they didn't help. At this point I'm tired of
spinning my wheels. Been fighting these things for 10 months. Most of my corals are dead and all my snails are dead. Luckily my fish are still totally healthy. So I've decided to transplant my fish and some rock to a 20 gallon, totally tear down my 120, kill and sterilize the rock and let it dry, then start over with that sterilized rock and some new live rock. Then after quarantining the fish I'll move them back. I'll get rid of the few remaining corals I have and start new. If my corals were still ok I'd hold on but really I'm fighting dinos in a mostly bare tank at this point so I don't see why I don't just start over.


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Old 03/18/2017, 11:34 AM   #4117
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I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. Good luck with your restart!


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Old 03/18/2017, 11:43 AM   #4118
taricha
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Thanks for the link. I'm not sure mine looks like any of those three. I took a video at various magnifications if anyone wants to see (forgive my daughter watching Elf in the background ). Mine move more like bumper cars, they are all over the place

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2sikyw914...AW0Sqfn5a?dl=0


and here is another pic i snapped

http://i.imgur.com/gXDEaZ6.jpg


Wow. Just went back and looked at your vids.
These were the first dinos I had in my tank. The co-occurred with amphidinium at same time in different spots on my sand.
Here they are in my tank.
https://youtu.be/HLakMav9rRw

I looked for months and saw no one else with this kind, but now you and another reefer have both posted these in 2 days.

Anyway, my best ID for these is Coolia monotonis. Some YouTube vids of Coolia that seem to match shape and motion pretty well.

Also here's a google animation I did of changing focal plane to look at structure. https://goo.gl/photos/xmpYxEUWjo9sSrin7

Have you done UV? I don't know if these go into water column at night.


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Old 03/18/2017, 12:42 PM   #4119
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I haven't tried UV. They certainly lighten up on the rocks and sand at night so they may go partially into the water column.


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Old 03/18/2017, 12:57 PM   #4120
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I did try Vibrant for the tiny patches left and I'd say it has no effect on ostis.
That can not be said for my well thought out method that actually works.
No luck involved and I still feel like a superhero.


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Old 03/18/2017, 01:11 PM   #4121
taricha
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I haven't tried UV. They certainly lighten up on the rocks and sand at night so they may go partially into the water column.
Yeah, this thread is big and we've forgotten a lot of things that were effective for some cases.

If there's still anything in your tank that might be done in by dino toxin, run carbon and skim heavy just in case UV works.


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Old 03/18/2017, 01:24 PM   #4122
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I did try Vibrant for the tiny patches left and I'd say it has no effect on ostis.
That can not be said for my well thought out method that actually works.
No luck involved and I still feel like a superhero.
I think your sand bed removal, plus marine snow prevention is probably effective against several different kinds of dinos.
It would also increase effectiveness of other methods as well.
Sand beds offer mechanical protection to buried dino cysts, and likely a level of chemical protection from oxidizers, and other chemical treatments.
Twillard reported elsewhere that osti cysts in sand bed survived bleach(!) treatment.
We definitely need to have other people try your method.

(Personally, my tank would have to be pretty far gone before I'd pull my sand bed out.)


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Old 03/19/2017, 10:06 PM   #4123
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just spent the last 5 weeks doing large water changes with a shop/wet vac removing all my sand (crushed coral). As the last 10 or so page of this thread convinced me that removing my sandbed would be essential. Tons of detritus in there, etc. - but this did nothing to the dino population...if anything, the dinos are now all over the rock where as before they were staying in the sand more.

I am seriously shaken by all this - removing the sand was my last straw - this has taken so much of my time and caused a great deal of stress where my previous reef tanks had been so enjoyable. Not sure what to do at this point - tried dirty method, tried clean method, which seems to reduce them quite a bit, but corals pale and fish go hungry, so when you up the food some they explode again. I think my battle is over, and dinos have won. Maybe Ill try to see how bad I can get them in my tank for fun...


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Old 03/19/2017, 11:38 PM   #4124
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try ignoring the tank and letting algae take over. what do you have to lose? just continue dosing ca and alk and wait.


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Old 03/20/2017, 02:46 AM   #4125
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I may be lucky but I dosed 3ml/gal of h2o2 and the bloom has significantly subsided. I did this before the whole tank was taken over and it seems to have done the trick


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