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Old 08/14/2017, 01:07 AM   #1
extendedmango
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College nano plan!

I thought I would repost this question here because it relates to this section of the forum.

"Are seahorses a possibility for a college nano? I know about dwarf seahorses and while I think I can dedicate time to raise brine shrimp right now, I think it would be too much for me during college. Has anyone tried? There is also hippocampus capensis (sold as zu lulus on ocean rider), which supposedly eats misis and fits in any tank that is at least 12 inches high. Any thoughts?"


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Old 08/14/2017, 01:11 AM   #2
extendedmango
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College nano plan!

I'm planning a ~10g tank for college and am discussing my options for fish on my thread. I love seahorses, I setup my current tank to house them but got distracted by other fish . I was so set on having them I took the ocean rider seahorse training on how to keep them. For more info checkout my thread in the nano reef Sig.

Thanks in advance!


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Old 08/14/2017, 01:37 AM   #3
farfromsea
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I wouldn't do seahorses they need such pristine water quality. There is so much you could and should be doing during college. Just go with something less challenging for now (and presuming you haven't started yet) reward yourself with a seahorse tank senior year once you see how stuff goes. You can always sell your original tank and get seahorses haha


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Old 08/14/2017, 10:25 AM   #4
rayjay
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I don't recommend it.
Seahorses have specific needs different from the needs of a reef tank.
Water quality is a BIG issue with them in terms of things that no hobbyist test kit is going to be of any help to you as it relates to conditions that enable the nasty bacteria to thrive. The recommendation for one pair of standard sized seahorses is 29/30g and anything less helps make bacteria conditions thrive.
H. capensis can get to 4 to 4.5 inches and that will tax even a 20g tank unless you are extremely diligent with husbandry and water changes.
They are also best kept at 68 to 72F, lower preferred, so can you provide for that need also?
At $165 apiece, I wouldn't want to chance loosing them due to a setup that lacks the capability of best for their chances of survival.
While OR ships them in the 2-3" range, they don't stay that size for long.
Lastly, have you checked to see when they may have them available? I haven't seen them in stock for some time.


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Old 08/14/2017, 12:49 PM   #5
extendedmango
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjay View Post
I don't recommend it.

Seahorses have specific needs different from the needs of a reef tank.

Water quality is a BIG issue with them in terms of things that no hobbyist test kit is going to be of any help to you as it relates to conditions that enable the nasty bacteria to thrive. The recommendation for one pair of standard sized seahorses is 29/30g and anything less helps make bacteria conditions thrive.

H. capensis can get to 4 to 4.5 inches and that will tax even a 20g tank unless you are extremely diligent with husbandry and water changes.

They are also best kept at 68 to 72F, lower preferred, so can you provide for that need also?

At $165 apiece, I wouldn't want to chance loosing them due to a setup that lacks the capability of best for their chances of survival.

While OR ships them in the 2-3" range, they don't stay that size for long.

Lastly, have you checked to see when they may have them available? I haven't seen them in stock for some time.


This is about what I expected to hear, I was only hopeful that there was something I didn't know. What about the dwarf seahorses? I know they are supposedly expert only due to feeding habits, but according to seahorse.org they only require a simple setup. Think they would be okay if I am able to provide for their feeding requirements?


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Old 08/14/2017, 03:15 PM   #6
rayjay
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I'd bet there is something you don't know about seahorses. I've been in the hobby for about 14 yrs now and I'm still learning.
While a dwarf setup can be simple, the needs are still the same. Excellent water quality.
I'd suggest before getting into dwarfs, to first get artemia cysts and start hatching them out and then simulate enriching them. It will give you an idea of how much is involved before you get to the point you have to do it.
Many dwarf keepers end up getting out because the feeding/enriching chore becomes too much of a chore.
A great site to check out on seahorses with some more up to date info than the org is https://fusedjaw.com/ where Tami has spent much time on assembling all this information.


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Old 08/14/2017, 05:35 PM   #7
extendedmango
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College nano plan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjay View Post
I'd bet there is something you don't know about seahorses. I've been in the hobby for about 14 yrs now and I'm still learning.

While a dwarf setup can be simple, the needs are still the same. Excellent water quality.

I'd suggest before getting into dwarfs, to first get artemia cysts and start hatching them out and then simulate enriching them. It will give you an idea of how much is involved before you get to the point you have to do it.

Many dwarf keepers end up getting out because the feeding/enriching chore becomes too much of a chore.

A great site to check out on seahorses with some more up to date info than the org is https://fusedjaw.com/ where Tami has spent much time on assembling all this information.

I'm so sorry if I'm coming across as a know it all, I really know nothing compared to anyone who has kept seahorses. I have also never raised brine shrimp.

The only reason it seemed easy to me was the video that the king of diy made. His stand seems to make raising brine shrimp easy but I will give it a try before buying the tank (I'm sure my wrasse would love a snack )

Thanks for the advice!!!


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Old 08/14/2017, 06:03 PM   #8
rayjay
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You haven't come across as a know it all. I just didn't word my remark properly to give you that feeling.
I'm not the best at putting what I'm thinking into words. In this case it was just a remark about "I was only hopeful that there was something I didn't know" that I didn't express well.
Hatching brine shrimp is easy, but it's best for seahorses to either sterilize the cysts or decap them before hatching out. Artemia cysts are known to harbour nasty bacteria.
After hatching, the artemia cannot feed for their first instar stage, but can at the second instar where their digestive tract is completed. Depending on the setup, this can be anywhere from 8 hours to 24 or more hours. I use 24 hours as the general guide for myself.
Once they reach the second instar stage, then it's time to enrich with a high DHA component. Probably the most used enrichment I hear about is Selco/Selcon products, but I'm not partial to emulsions so I prefer to use Algamac 3050 (now upgraded but I don't remember the new product name) which is a powder, stores well in a freezer for long times, and, is higher in DHA than even high DHA Selco.
Enrichment should be done, the gut loading stage in one 12 hour period, but it's even better to do a second 12 hour stage with new water and enrichment and at this time, the nauplii are not only gut loaded, but the nutrition will also have become assimilated into their flesh.
Because I'm basically lazy, I tend to go simple with my DIY things and that goes for my Hatcher/Enricher as well.
Many don't find it quite so easy to raise brine shrimp to adult but for dwarfs that is not needed.
My Artemia Raising Page


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Old 08/14/2017, 09:01 PM   #9
extendedmango
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjay View Post
You haven't come across as a know it all. I just didn't word my remark properly to give you that feeling.

I'm not the best at putting what I'm thinking into words. In this case it was just a remark about "I was only hopeful that there was something I didn't know" that I didn't express well.

Hatching brine shrimp is easy, but it's best for seahorses to either sterilize the cysts or decap them before hatching out. Artemia cysts are known to harbour nasty bacteria.

After hatching, the artemia cannot feed for their first instar stage, but can at the second instar where their digestive tract is completed. Depending on the setup, this can be anywhere from 8 hours to 24 or more hours. I use 24 hours as the general guide for myself.

Once they reach the second instar stage, then it's time to enrich with a high DHA component. Probably the most used enrichment I hear about is Selco/Selcon products, but I'm not partial to emulsions so I prefer to use Algamac 3050 (now upgraded but I don't remember the new product name) which is a powder, stores well in a freezer for long times, and, is higher in DHA than even high DHA Selco.

Enrichment should be done, the gut loading stage in one 12 hour period, but it's even better to do a second 12 hour stage with new water and enrichment and at this time, the nauplii are not only gut loaded, but the nutrition will also have become assimilated into their flesh.

Because I'm basically lazy, I tend to go simple with my DIY things and that goes for my Hatcher/Enricher as well.

Many don't find it quite so easy to raise brine shrimp to adult but for dwarfs that is not needed.

My Artemia Raising Page

I tend to be the same when it comes to writing posts.

Does this setup work for raising the artema and enrichment? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...HFkxD2ON_GWg7A

Also, do you know of any brands that sell decapsulated eggs? Also is the second enrichment nessesary for the seahorses health?

All said, this seems to be more complex than I had originally imagined. I may need to rethink having seahorses.


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Old 08/14/2017, 11:15 PM   #10
extendedmango
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College nano plan!

After further thought, I think seahorses are best left for later in life, thanks again for the help!


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Old 08/15/2017, 09:57 AM   #11
rayjay
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As the narrator says in your video link above, there are many ways to hatch out artemia cysts.
To differ with his procedure, I hydrate the cysts in the water for 1/2 hour before aerating for 1 hour and then sterilizing a few minutes with some bleach. The bleach for obvious reasons of bacteria control but the hydrating procedure will mean a lot less of the cysts being carried above the water line when you start. You will still get residue later from the hatched shell remains but that isn't a problem.
A big problem for me is the harvesting as he explains.
Unfortunately, not all cysts will hatch, and while the hatched shell remains will mostly go to the top, the unhatched ones remain at the bottom and so when you open that valve, you are collecting cysts and nauplii at the same time.
I recommend separation of these unhatched cysts first. One way is to slowly open the valve and let a slow flow run, and most of the unhatched cysts will come out first. Discard this portion and then continue to harvest. You will never get complete separation but you try for the best anyway.
There are several sources of decapped cysts, including Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com. However, read closely because a lot of the decapped cysts sold are NOT viable for hatching and are meant only for direct feeding to non seahorse tanks.
I think you are making a wise decision, and, leaving yourself open to rethinking the hobby after college.


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