Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 08/18/2017, 02:23 PM   #251
netsequent
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 18
The same relationship between oxygen and alkalinity is true.
Holmes-Farley, R. (2004). Low pH: Causes and Cures. In Reef Alchemy: Reefkeeping Magazine. Retrieved from http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/


netsequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/18/2017, 02:27 PM   #252
bif24701
Registered Member
 
bif24701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida, FWB
Posts: 3,346
Saltmix Parameters bring on the test results

Quote:
Originally Posted by netsequent View Post
These tests seem to lack any accounting for oxygen? There are relationships between dissolved oxygen and Ph. Shouldn't DO be held constant across these tests?


Measuring O2, CO2, and pH must be at point of collection within minutes. After that the gasses and pH in a sample will not be as that when it was collected. Also because pH is so dependent on the levels of CO2 which is outside the control of the salt mix makes it virtually a useless tool for comparison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


__________________
180 Mixed Reef
SRO-5000 Skimmer
Neptune APEX Gold
Kessil AP700/ MP60+6105
Kalk+2 part/ Cheato Fuge

Current Tank Info: 180 SPS Dominant

Last edited by bif24701; 08/18/2017 at 04:18 PM.
bif24701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/18/2017, 02:57 PM   #253
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by netsequent View Post
The same relationship between oxygen and alkalinity is true.
Holmes-Farley, R. (2004). Low pH: Causes and Cures. In Reef Alchemy: Reefkeeping Magazine. Retrieved from http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/
It's CO2 driven. Alkalinity (loose term) will help buffer the pH levels and if a source that will increase the alkalinity level will temporarily increase the pH until pH is driven back down by CO2.

O doesn't directly influence pH.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/18/2017, 04:07 PM   #254
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by netsequent View Post
These tests seem to lack any accounting for oxygen? There are relationships between dissolved oxygen and Ph. Shouldn't DO be held constant across these tests?
There isn't any practical correlation between DO and pH in our tanks. Most tanks (and water samples) will be at full saturation after a bit of aeration, in any case.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08/19/2017, 09:09 PM   #255
netsequent
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
Most tanks (and water samples) will be at full saturation after a bit of aeration, in any case.
My concern here is that when we're starting to use these tests to compare vendor salt mix, the RO/DI water mix is not at full saturation, nor has it been run through a protein skimmer for days. But, certainly a useful test as intended. I personally still hold the opinion DO, Salinity, and temperature would need to be held constant for a fair comparison.


netsequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/19/2017, 09:13 PM   #256
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by netsequent View Post
My concern here is that when we're starting to use these tests to compare vendor salt mix, the RO/DI water mix is not at full saturation, nor has it been run through a protein skimmer for days. But, certainly a useful test as intended. I personally still hold the opinion DO, Salinity, and temperature would need to be held constant for a fair comparison.

But if it's in your system with a skimmer, carbon, life, organics, etc. Then it's not new saltmix. This thread is about getting a general idea of what to expect when mixing up a new saltmix and before it's added to the tank.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/20/2017, 02:33 PM   #257
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,839
Well, DO does not affect the pH level in our systems. I'm more concerned about carbon dioxide equilibration, which definitely can make a difference.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09/18/2017, 08:59 PM   #258
NY_Caveman
Registered Member
 
NY_Caveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: New York
Posts: 4
Not to hijack but since everyone here seems experienced with salts I have a quick related question. My experience seems to show the average reefer keeps alkalinity around 8.3 dkh (natural sea water level) but some of the widely used salt brands have alkalinity as high as 11 dkh with few salt mixes around 8-8.5 dkh. Am I missing something? This seems askew to me.


NY_Caveman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/18/2017, 11:23 PM   #259
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,839

To Reef Central

The parameters in our salt products give people trouble in various ways. There are some lower-alkalinity products, and it's possible to reduce the alkalinity in a salt mix by dosing a mineral acid. Also, backing off on the alkalinity supplementation after a water change will keep the alkalinity from rising.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09/21/2017, 03:54 PM   #260
homer1475
Registered Member
 
homer1475's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,986
Over the course of 5 200G boxes of regular IO I average these numbers:

Alk 9.9 - pretty much dead on this number every batch.
Cal 400
Mag 1250

Calibrated refractomter(35ppt solution) @ 1.026
78 F
All tests done with salifert.


__________________
80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
homer1475 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/29/2017, 12:08 PM   #261
James404
I <3 Acros
 
James404's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,572
Started my new tank with Fritz RPM after hearing some good things on here. Just tested alk and it came back at 10 via Red Sea Titration.

Disappointed since I was hoping it to be 8-8.5 or less. I'll double check with Salifert when I get a new kit, but probably will switch to TMPR after the box is done.


__________________
80g Deep Blue Rimless - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651295
225g Reef Savvy SPS Dominant - Retired http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1945361

Last edited by James404; 09/29/2017 at 12:17 PM.
James404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/08/2017, 10:26 PM   #262
rtparty
Raise The Reef!
 
rtparty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 7,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by James404 View Post
Started my new tank with Fritz RPM after hearing some good things on here. Just tested alk and it came back at 10 via Red Sea Titration.

Disappointed since I was hoping it to be 8-8.5 or less. I'll double check with Salifert when I get a new kit, but probably will switch to TMPR after the box is done.
This is becoming very common with Fritz. Their parameters are all over the place.


__________________
Ryan

Click on my user name and check out my homepage!

Current Tank Info: 50g Cadlights/Giesemann Spectra (250w Radium, 2 ATI Blue Plus, 2 ATI Actinic)/2 x Vortech MP10wQD/Skimz SN123/Eheim Compact 3000+
rtparty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10/10/2017, 09:24 PM   #263
mav3rick478
Registered Member
 
mav3rick478's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: California
Posts: 647
Had anyone gotten their hands on the Live Aquaria salt?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


mav3rick478 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2017, 05:32 PM   #264
Psyops
Still Learning
 
Psyops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Where my wife decides
Posts: 707
The parameters in our salt products give people trouble in various ways. There are some lower-alkalinity products, and it's possible to reduce the alkalinity in a salt mix by dosing a mineral acid. Also, backing off on the alkalinity supplementation after a water change will keep the alkalinity from rising.[/QUOTE]

Just retired from active duty and getting back into this great hobby. Can you give me a link or maybe elaborate on the mineral acid dosing? Reason I ask this is that my 5 year old put a soap bar in my sump. So I started to do large water changes witch spiked my alk from 8.3 or so to near 11. Killed a couple of montis. Do you recommend mineral acid dosing when you have to alter alk with large water changes in emergency situations? Sorry don't want to deter from the main topic.

Alex


__________________
GOT REEF!

One tank short of a trial separation.

Current Tank Info: 180 Gallon reef. Just starting to convert to mainly SPS.
Psyops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2017, 05:49 PM   #265
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,839
Dosing water for changes with a mineral acid is fine if you watch the pH and aerate the water sufficiently before adding it to the tank. The pH should bounce back up fairly quickly, but if you are making large water changes, I think it's worth making sure that the pH is acceptable when the change is done.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:14 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014