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Old 10/14/2017, 07:13 AM   #1
Subsea
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Christmas in a Macro Lagoon

I like bright & bold colors. Red & green are two of my favorite colors. I call the combo my Christmas theme.

Greens are supplied by Grape Caulerpa, GSP and Green Sinularia.

Reds are supplied by Red Grapes and Dragons Breath.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
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Old 10/17/2017, 07:10 PM   #2
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Don't you mean 'salad bar'? Kidding!

I agree, it's nice to have both green and red. I'm currently a bit low on greens and my reds just don't pop without them.


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our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 10/18/2017, 11:09 AM   #3
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Green & Red Grapes

I like this Grape Caulerpa making shade for Red Grapes.

Note the pale look to the Red Grapes on diver collected Gulf live rock on the right. This is what Red Grapes look like when moved from dim to intense light. The cuttings on the left are a dark burgundy.


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Old 10/18/2017, 12:32 PM   #4
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That's a good comparison. I'm still hoping my red grapes come back, in the dim end of my tank. I wonder if too bright light has been the reason I haven't had good luck with these plants.


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 10/18/2017, 03:11 PM   #5
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For certain, with red grapes that is the case. I sometimes wonder if Red Grapes grow at >60’ depth to avoid competition. The reason I say this is because I recently have had an explosion of red grape sprigs everywhere, including high light area. Can red grapes photo adapt to different or more intense PAR, I don’t know. I have moved a bracket with red grape starts to a different place with more light. We shall see how it responds. Same light just a different place with more of the same light spectrum.


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Old 10/24/2017, 09:18 AM   #6
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Cool tank Subsea!


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Old 10/25/2017, 07:17 PM   #7
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Thanks. I like your CheasPeak Bay biotheme.


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Old 10/31/2017, 12:00 AM   #8
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Subsea , what lights, additives are u using ?


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Old 10/31/2017, 05:52 AM   #9
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4’ Chinese light bar with green, white and heavy blue for a 12,000 kelvin color. On all my tanks I add iron, iodine and vinegar as a carbon source. No skimming.

On my 55G tumble culture, I load it up: amonia, miracle grow, fish emulsion as well as iron, iodine and vinegar. Because of the fast growing macro in tumble culture, I dose three times a week. On frag growout and 75G display, I dose twice a week.

I have expanded the cultivars of macro in tumble culture. Initially, I grew Gracilaria Hayi with 6’ of LED light bar (fifty four 3W diodes). Because I wanted a different color macro, I reduced the lighting by removing a 3’ light bar to produce a dark burgundy color. Then, I added cuttings from Halymenia digitata, Dragons Tongue, that I am pampering to get into production. This species of Halymenia should grow very well in tumble culture. Two very good reasons for tumble culture is it is a self pruning/cleaning process that produces symmetrical bushes. That saves labor. From my point of view, the biggest advantage of tumble culture is that all surfaces of macro are subject to light and all surfaces take in nutrients. So, in my case, I was able to reduce electric bill and produce a more desirable product with a dark burgundy color.

I like it when everybody wins.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

Last edited by Subsea; 10/31/2017 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 10/31/2017, 07:02 AM   #10
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Subsea, very cool stuff. What do you mean by tumble culture? Specifically, how do you accomplish it? I get the general idea, but can't picture the mechanics involved.

What fish do you keep in those tanks? I think that I see black mollies in the pics...any others? If you add fish, will that alter your dosing regimen?


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Old 10/31/2017, 08:40 AM   #11
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Vertical loop current

Because of the energy in the mass of inertia, a tumble culture has a source and an end. The trick is to get them into the same vertical plane. Long narrow tanks work best but there are other techniques for larger scale operations.

In a 55G tank, I start the energy at top left with two MaxiJet 1200. Current travels on surface from left to right. Current hits right vertical wall, then makes a u turn and flows from right to left at bottom of tank. To assist with uplift on left side of tank, I make a 45 degree ramp with course aroggonite at 3-5mm in diameter. The ramp starts out 6” before vertical wall. Four inches in front of wall, a curtain of air bubbles accelerate macro bushes up to MaxiJet discharge where the journey repeats itself.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

Last edited by Subsea; 10/31/2017 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 10/31/2017, 08:48 AM   #12
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In 55G growout tanks, I prefer only mollies. They are active herbivores but not destructive like Rabbits and Tangs. They are just like “big pods”.

I feed heavily. It is fun to watch the tank feed. With respect to changing feeding protocol with different fish loads. Not so much as watching the tank and seeing what it tells me to do. An obvious bio indicator would be GHA or cynobacteria.


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Old 11/03/2017, 10:49 AM   #13
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Tumble culture

Tumble culture


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Old 11/28/2017, 06:22 AM   #14
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Subsea, I like the idea of the tumble culture. Is that eggcrate on the left side to hide the heater and whatnot? Have you used the tumble culture to grow anything other then the reds? Maybe I'm wrong but isn't vinegar dosing counterproductive because it's used to lower nitrates? I realize your using it as a carbon source instead of CO2. Interested in your thoughts on this.

Thanks Jason


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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 11/28/2017, 01:27 PM   #15
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While the eggcrate hides heater and pumps, it is there because of how Dynamic “fluid mechanics” work. To avoid turbulent flow the eggcrate provides channels to allow water into pump void, without piling up macro. It is a somewhat hit/miss process.

Vinegar lowering nitrates is incomplete and misleading. Because SPS reefkeepers have preached a religion of nutrient export, to them the purpose of adding a carbon source is to remove nutrients via protein skimming. I add carbon because it is an essential building block for macro, coral, fish and the list goes on.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

Last edited by Subsea; 11/28/2017 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 11/28/2017, 02:54 PM   #16
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Very interesting stuff Patrick. I'll be following for sure. Hopefully, I'll learn a thing or to and bring some of these techniques into my system.


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Old 11/28/2017, 06:50 PM   #17
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I don't remember reading but do you dose anything for nitrates? Essentially algae uses the carbon before the bacteria does.

Jason


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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 11/28/2017, 08:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlobstor View Post
I don't remember reading but do you dose anything for nitrates? Essentially algae uses the carbon before the bacteria does.

Jason
Don’t agree with the last sentence. They both use carbon. Plants prefer to take it as a gas during photosynthesis. This is the definition of “carbon fixation”; carbon dioxide gas in solution combining with photosynthesis to make glucose, which feeds the ocean.

Jason,

It depends on the tank. Feeding fish in a tank doses nitrate and phosphate already.

On my 55G tumble culture of Dragons Tongue, Halymenia digitata, I feed inorganic nutrients heavily.
Three days a week, I dose iron, iodine, miracle grow, kelp fertilizer, ammonia and 1ml of vinegar for each gallon of tank water.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
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Old 11/28/2017, 09:08 PM   #19
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Don’t agree with the last sentence. They both use carbon. Plants prefer to take it as a gas during photosynthesis. This is the definition of “carbon fixation”; carbon dioxide gas in solution combining with photosynthesis to make glucose, which feeds the ocean.

Sorry it must be these long nights. I was paraphrasing something I thought you had said but when I reread it I was mistaken.

It depends on the tank. Feeding fish in a tank doses nitrate and phosphate already.

That's why I want to put some eels, lionfish, or the like in with some macros.


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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 11/29/2017, 04:00 PM   #20
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I bought some fertilizer, I think, that contain bacteria. I'll post some pictures later to see what you think. I'll also post this on your intelligent design thread once I finish reading it. You say you use Miracle-Gro is that liquid or granular.

Thanks Jason


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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 11/30/2017, 11:36 AM   #21
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I couldn't figure out how to post pictures so I'm doing it through Tapatalk. These were on sale at Walmart for $5 so I'm going to try them and see how well they work out.

Jason

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 11/30/2017, 11:58 PM   #22
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First. The super bloom has a higher ratio of phosphate. I would stay away from that.

Second. Why do you feel you need to add inorganic nutrients when you will have plenty of waste from lionfish.

The reason that I add beaucoup inorganic nutrients is because I am cultivating fast grow decorative macros with a production rate of 7-10 volumes per month. Don’t do that in your reef tank. I have 45 years experience.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
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Old 12/01/2017, 05:07 AM   #23
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Second. Why do you feel you need to add inorganic nutrients when you will have plenty of waste from lionfish.

I got it more for the bacteria that is inside there rather than to use as a fertilizer and I like to experiment around. I have so many different tanks that I can set up to play around with experiment see what they like see what they don't like.


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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 12/01/2017, 06:51 AM   #24
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I doubt that your fertilizer has bacteria in it. Unless you have access to a scientific lab, you will never know what you are actually doing at the micro level. Any healthy, mature reef tank will introduce bacteria with some water and/or handful of substrate. There are proper probiotics made for reef tanks if you want to get scientific, but I don’t think that they are necessary.


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Old 12/01/2017, 09:39 AM   #25
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It's hard to see but the bottle states that it has 7 different microbes in it. Do you use liquid or granular miracle grow?


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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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