Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Reef Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 11/10/2017, 05:43 AM   #276
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timfish View Post

Tim,
I think I may be getting ill. This stuff is beginning to make sense and I am enjoying immersion into it.

Help a brother out. The beautiful Chilli Coral which I received three days ago is in shock. After the first day, I went to bed with Chilli flying all his feathers. When I woke in the morning, like a kid at Christmas, I peaked into tank with a red led flashlight. It was collateral damage. The complete rock wall with ledge for shade had fallen down on Chilli. With no external abrasions, I brushed off detritus on Chilli and remounted in a different place. After 24 hours he showed a few feathers, but not so this morning. He is covered in detritus that seems to stick to outer skin.

Because of the aggressive sand bed maintenance that is ongoing, Detritus is getting stirred up more than normal. In the case of the Sea Apple, he worked overtime to capture detritus as food. Do the feeding requirements of Chilli and Sea Apple contradict each other? Surprisingly, with all the sand bed maintenances on Jaubert Plenum, the refugium is crystal clear with no carry over of detritus. I credit that to the first chamber on this eco-system mud/macro refugium. In looking at the rocks in refugium, there is no detritus to blow off.

IMO, this might be the best hospital for Chilli.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 07:43 AM   #277
Timfish
Registered Member
 
Timfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
. . . Here is a Orange Encrusting Sponge that looks red to me. What kind of DOC does it eat? . . .
I wish we knew that answer to that! (Maybe Steve has some thoughts?) As a group sponges are going to be just like stoney corals and soft corals - some do well in our systems but most are still beyond our ability to keep because we still do not know the specifics of their husbandry. And I suspect it's likely a lot of sponges eat something else besides or in addition to DOC. De Goeij showed certain cryptic sponges in his thesis removed bacterioplankton from the water, what if these are "omnivorus" and some sponge species need specific types of bacterioplankton or DOC?. Just like we can't keep a lot of Acro species because we don't know enough to replicate their environment most of the sponge species are still beyond our reach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
Tim,
I think I may be getting ill. This stuff is beginning to make sense and I am enjoying immersion into it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
. . . The beautiful Chilli Coral which I received three days ago is in shock. . . .
Sorry to hear about that! Chilli's are still beyond our reach, it's not one I know any one has been able to grow and frag.


__________________
"Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek
Timfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 10:35 AM   #278
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,783
“Chili’s are still beyond our reach”. Does that mean it was better to die in a rock slid and not be prolonged to death by starvation?

The two NPS Gogorgions are looking good, particularly the Yelliw Tree Gorgonion.

https://www.live-plants.com/yellowfinger.htm


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 10:59 AM   #279
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,783
Chilli Coral in hospital

Chilli is looking better after 6 hours in cryptic zone refugium


Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (65.3 KB, 22 views)
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 08:39 PM   #280
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
Feed!


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 08:50 PM   #281
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,783
Cryptic Zone Hospital

After 16 hours in the unlit mud / cryptic zone refugium, Chilli is looking good under old macro refugium bulbs.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (44.0 KB, 22 views)
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/11/2017, 08:01 PM   #282
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,783
Red Hot Chilli Pepper

Chilli update

After nearly 48hour in cryptic zone refugium, Chilliís color has gone from maroon to a vibrant red, as he was in shipping bag.

Due to continued sand bed maintenance, detritus continues to be stirred up. Not good for Chilli. Chilli stays down under for another week.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (46.6 KB, 22 views)
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/11/2017, 08:25 PM   #283
Twinfallz
Registered Member
 
Twinfallz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
Chilli update

After nearly 48hour in cryptic zone refugium, Chilliís color has gone from maroon to a vibrant red, as he was in shipping bag.

Due to continued sand bed maintenance, detritus continues to be stirred up. Not good for Chilli. Chilli stays down under for another week.
Chilli might think its cool in the cryptic zone & might like to make it his home?


Twinfallz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/11/2017, 08:42 PM   #284
Twinfallz
Registered Member
 
Twinfallz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 391
Just started on a cryptic zone sump design.

Have built a permeable dividing wall - semi cryptic/cryptic zones

Made from coral rock, coral gravel, white cement & rocksalt.




Twinfallz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/11/2017, 09:16 PM   #285
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinfallz View Post
Chilli might think its cool in the cryptic zone & might like to make it his home?

Maybe for a short time of < 3 months. By then my algae feeding platform will have filled in providing the shade that Chilli requires. Also, my sand bed maintenance should be completed eliminating particulates clogging up Chilliís feathers.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 10:47 PM   #286
Twinfallz
Registered Member
 
Twinfallz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tyree View Post

Exposed sponges tend to be very distinctive. Its relatively easy to tell the
difference. Unfortunately, most of the sponges that have been historically
offered for sale in the hobby are from exposed zones. These sponges do not
survive well in cryptic habitats. In general, if a sponge grows out of a rock
that is held in a cryptic zone, chances are real good it is a cryptic sponge.
Exposed sponges need strong current flows and some need light. Also, sponges
growing under corals tend to be semi-cryptic.
Hi steve, I've read cmat vol 1 & 2, at least the parts that apply to what I'm attempting to do. I'm using a permeable coral rock dividing wall to seperate a semi cryptic / cryptic zone in my sump. I was planning to slightly illuminate the semi section.

My problem is I have no access to dedicated cryptic sponge rock.
The best I can do is to use some rock from within my display that has sponge life on it to seed the cryptic zone. These sponges get zero direct light, but some indirect illumination. Will these sponges be ok or not?

I don't want tp place them in a cryptic zone only for them to die & possible pollute the system. Should I perhaps just make the sump fully semi cryptic??

cheers


Twinfallz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/15/2017, 11:05 AM   #287
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,783
Twin,
I feel that my mud cryptic refugium is semi-cryptic because the whole back of stand is open to air flow and ambient light.

I have also included a 3G chaeto refugium in display tank overflow box. I figure the production of DOC and micro algae, a type of phytoplankton.

“Marine phytoplankton are mainly composed of micro algae known as dinoflagellates and diatoms, though other algae and cynobacteria can be present”.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/24/2017, 12:22 PM   #288
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
Day one of taking down the cryptic... its composed of three layers and sits in the middle of my sump.

The topmost layer is the algae zone. It's made of eggcrate and nylon mesh (like used for ATS). The water mostly flows over this zone from end to end

The second layer creates a baffle zone between the algae zone and the deep zone. Again- eggcrate and mesh. This channels any remaining medium flow to the other end but allows some exchange into the lowest zone.

The last layer is made up of 2quart buckets of sand/mud. Two layers of these buckets separated by eggcrate and mesh.

In this lowest zone, water trickles through the surface layers but does so slowly.

Today, I removed the first two zones...

Here's what I found.. fast zones have feather dusters... thousands clumped together to make "rock"...

In the top eggcrate squares, sand collected forming tiny sand beds protected from flow. These had.... tiny sea cucumbers! Less than 3/4" long! They we so small I thought they were sponges.

Lower down ... three kinds of sponges... first white, then yellow, then on the bottom pinkish purple?. These aren't "attractive" sponges. They look like wet napkin paper with holes and striations. Inside and around them are tiny serpent stars..

I haven't gotten to the buckets but here are the pics:

 photo 4FE51C9B-B97D-4EA9-A962-6E50A040A804_zpswutoexae.jpg

 photo CFB83A82-1EFF-4D19-A89A-6A70059948BE_zpsu49vqk0z.jpg

 photo CA2C89E8-67F3-475A-86F4-2EE58D82D8DA_zpsakodsq0e.jpg

 photo FB954E77-D3AE-4C73-8847-8C8EE8B15559_zpsrf3xkebp.jpg

 photo 3CB190DE-9F9E-44DE-9D80-5D4F6976714B_zpsh9kaisho.jpg

 photo C6631907-0CD1-4FFD-9ADC-07B1B5BE8491_zps5n42ix2h.jpg

 photo 5F0C59CB-7DC7-45EB-A848-3E6381C9DA26_zpsufoogrh6.jpg

 photo 02EB6DE2-5BBC-41FD-9900-00FD29DB892A_zpssuqrgqov.jpg


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/25/2017, 02:12 AM   #289
Twinfallz
Registered Member
 
Twinfallz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 391
Thanks for going to the trouble of posting that info karim.


Twinfallz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/25/2017, 06:50 AM   #290
Timfish
Registered Member
 
Timfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,601
+1 Cool grungy stuff.


__________________
"Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek
Timfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 10:45 AM   #291
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
Ok. Last layer.. the very low flow sand/mud buckets. Here's the view before removing anything

 photo 61111066-5015-479B-BDA3-047DEDD0A9FB_zpsdxsvplyo.jpg

 photo 4694424C-0476-4451-90BB-0D08E9D431EA_zps8sprp2le.jpg

There's a layer of muddy silt covering the bucket tops and the feather duster clusters are solid chunks here


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 10:54 AM   #292
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
The surface has a thin layer of sponge with raised bumps
 photo 9EFCACF6-BBA8-4103-BB02-2A47453021DD_zps9tajrmp5.jpg

 photo F80FF29D-8834-4355-B1B8-D4186BE91BDE_zpsczjxgcrx.jpg

Some we white or pink


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 10:55 AM   #293
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
This one was much thicker and yellow
 photo 9747BA8E-47F8-455A-9855-2F2BDD69AD0A_zpsmf39ev09.jpg


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 10:55 AM   #294
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
Where the flow was higher, sponges gave way to worms

 photo BDB7FD38-002B-41E1-B2CB-7508EACE0C1F_zpsdssw7kjo.jpg


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 10:59 AM   #295
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
The eggcrate between layers had some impressive sponge growth

I'm inclined to believe that eggcrate is an ideal sponge habitat

 photo 72D180BC-7F85-433F-96EB-0BD2952D3BB2_zpssbsg5ekq.jpg

 photo 0709E266-9AB8-40B1-BF04-0592068B055E_zpszxfrgsel.jpg

That was about 6" long


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 11:00 AM   #296
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
Literally a birdsnest of worms

 photo 37907DA8-3586-4074-941A-5A6F651A5E5D_zpscs27kfrs.jpg


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 11:01 AM   #297
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
And more sponges

 photo 142EFF7B-D6BE-47D6-8C8C-C7C982E2167D_zps0k440y9v.jpg

 photo 3DF4ABDA-0D74-4108-846E-BC2808E57521_zpssr5iup9x.jpg

I wonder if these can be cultivated and shared... maybe a beehive like eggcrate structure...


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 05:00 PM   #298
Twinfallz
Registered Member
 
Twinfallz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 391
what exactly was the sand & mud used?


Twinfallz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 10:21 PM   #299
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
I used different substrates in each of the different 18 buckets... basically a shotgun approach.

3 had miracle mud
3 had fine sand
4 had sugar size sand
4 had coarse sand
4 had gravel

I didn't correct better data than that


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/26/2017, 10:35 PM   #300
Twinfallz
Registered Member
 
Twinfallz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I used different substrates in each of the different 18 buckets... basically a shotgun approach.

3 had miracle mud
3 had fine sand
4 had sugar size sand
4 had coarse sand
4 had gravel

I didn't correct better data than that
I take it the sands were all from coral?


Twinfallz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:44 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.