Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 01/01/2018, 10:44 AM   #2626
slief
RC Sponsor

 
slief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Simi Valley, Ca
Posts: 12,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thank you for that info and yes minimum should be 17ml/min. Cannot get it below 30

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshsmit56001 View Post
Doc says 17 at 6 rpm. Lowest he can go is 10 RPM. Could be the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You hit the nail on the head.

His pump is a 10-600 RPM motor, not a 6-600 RPM. That head flows at 2.8 ml per revolution with LS24 tubing. At 10 RPM minimum on his pump, that is 28 ml/min minimum with LS24 tubing on that pump.

LS-15 tubing is 1.5 ml per revolution which would get him down to a minimum of 15 ml/min. Seems a change of tubing is in order if the target flow is below 28 ml/min.


__________________
Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA
For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745

Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
slief is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/01/2018, 02:29 PM   #2627
hkgar
Registered Member
 
hkgar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dewitt MI
Posts: 3,882
What is the PSI, bubble count and effluent pH of your reactor? The flow rate may be just fine.

Tank Alk and is it raising or falling?


__________________
Gary


180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 3 250W Radiums,4 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: Yellow/Purple, Red Head, Hoevans, Possum Wrasses, 2 Barred Rabbit, Cherub & Spotbreast Angle, Kole, Purple & Atlantic Blue Tangs, Matted Filefish, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals
hkgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2018, 10:40 PM   #2628
thefuz
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Norwalk, CT
Posts: 760
Hello all. Been lurking for a long time - thanks for all the contributions along the way to this thread. I'm getting going on my CaRX after a year or so gathering dust beneath my work space.

Reactor: MTC Procal
Masterflex: 7550-30 | 40mL/min
CO2: aquariumplants.com bubble counter | 12psi at 4 seconds/bubble
pH monitored by APEX in line via the feed to the effluent chamber

I wanted to monitor how the pH varies in the reactor prior to starting to make sure my setup is in order.

I've set the bubble counter to cycle at a pH of 7.3. With that setting, pH swings from 7.31 down to 7.13.

This pH swing seems rather large. Should I be making adjustments to tighten this range? I'm considering starting at 6.9 but I do have zeomag loaded also. Just want to make sure I don't make mush before I get things going in earnest.

Thx in advance for the assist!!


Attached Images
File Type: jpg phCRx-thefuz-02jan2018.jpg (28.3 KB, 15 views)
thefuz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2018, 10:52 PM   #2629
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 16,578
Hey neighbor, same CaRx running reborn at 6.6 - no mush. I adjust the bubble rate to maintain 6.6 without triggering the solenoid. More stable that way.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2018, 11:54 PM   #2630
[email protected]
Registered Member
 
Frank@wall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by slief View Post
You hit the nail on the head.

His pump is a 10-600 RPM motor, not a 6-600 RPM. That head flows at 2.8 ml per revolution with LS24 tubing. At 10 RPM minimum on his pump, that is 28 ml/min minimum with LS24 tubing on that pump.

LS-15 tubing is 1.5 ml per revolution which would get him down to a minimum of 15 ml/min. Seems a change of tubing is in order if the target flow is below 28 ml/min.
Thank you for the breakdown and They have emailed me back and yes with ls24 it's 2.833 ml/min so that is why it cannot go below 30.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Frank@wall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2018, 11:59 PM   #2631
[email protected]
Registered Member
 
Frank@wall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
What is the PSI, bubble count and effluent pH of your reactor? The flow rate may be just fine.

Tank Alk and is it raising or falling?
Ph in reactor was 6.45 at 30ml/min effluent and tank was at 9.1 dkh.
I raised the reactor ph to 6.7 and my tank is sitting at 8.3 just where I want it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Frank@wall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/03/2018, 02:30 PM   #2632
hkgar
Registered Member
 
hkgar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dewitt MI
Posts: 3,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Hey neighbor, same CaRx running reborn at 6.6 - no mush. I adjust the bubble rate to maintain 6.6 without triggering the solenoid. More stable that way.
+1
The Apex should only be reporting the steady pH not controlling it. Adjust the bubble rate or PSI to get to a stable number


__________________
Gary


180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 3 250W Radiums,4 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: Yellow/Purple, Red Head, Hoevans, Possum Wrasses, 2 Barred Rabbit, Cherub & Spotbreast Angle, Kole, Purple & Atlantic Blue Tangs, Matted Filefish, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals
hkgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 12:37 PM   #2633
souk
Registered Member
 
souk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Expecting too much or is this normal? Trying to figure out why my ph is going up even though it's not even hitting 6.5 ph. I thought it was the ph prob so I replaced it 2 days ago. Only thing I can think of is my cheap needle on my reg that's causing it to fluctuate. This morning's report. Running geo 818, m/f 7551-00 with head 77201-60 size 17 tube.

Apex setting off < 6.4 - 6.9 > on

Any help would be appreciated.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


__________________
Tank:80 rimless,Sump:40br,1-mp40wes,2-mp10wes
Lighting:ATI SP 8 bulb:B+,ABS,B+,UVL A/W,ABS,B+,ABS,B+
Skimmer:Vertex Omega 150,apex lite controller,wxm
souk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 01:30 PM   #2634
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 6,150
Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

Depends on the amount of co2 you are releasing into reactor it's fluctuating but looks normal to me. Think your solenoid isn't going on and off and is constant on position. Looks dialed in correctly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 01:42 PM   #2635
sfdan
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by souk View Post
Expecting too much or is this normal? Trying to figure out why my ph is going up even though it's not even hitting 6.5 ph. I thought it was the ph prob so I replaced it 2 days ago. Only thing I can think of is my cheap needle on my reg that's causing it to fluctuate. This morning's report. Running geo 818, m/f 7551-00 with head 77201-60 size 17 tube.

Apex setting off < 6.4 - 6.9 > on

Any help would be appreciated.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Personally as long as it seems stable in the long term I wouldn't worry about it, but it certainly is *possible* for the pH to be more stable. Considering your masterflex is probably doing its job I'd have to assume the only aspect which isn't perfectly consistent is the co2 regulator, which is probably the culprit.

But if your alkalinity is staying stable I'm not sure it really matters how perfect your regulator is at dosing co2, as long as it is good enough, and your weekly
pH graph looks pretty darn stable to me.

But for comparison this is my masterflex + carbondoser electronic regulator:



The jump in the middle is when I adjusted the setting, but otherwise if I leave everything alone the pH in the reactor is normally rock solid, only going up and down a minor bit with the natural rise/fall of the tank's pH throughout the day.


sfdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 01:45 PM   #2636
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 6,150
Here is mine after a slight adjustment sure to alk intake




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 02:51 PM   #2637
slief
RC Sponsor

 
slief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Simi Valley, Ca
Posts: 12,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by souk View Post
Expecting too much or is this normal? Trying to figure out why my ph is going up even though it's not even hitting 6.5 ph. I thought it was the ph prob so I replaced it 2 days ago. Only thing I can think of is my cheap needle on my reg that's causing it to fluctuate. This morning's report. Running geo 818, m/f 7551-00 with head 77201-60 size 17 tube.

Apex setting off < 6.4 - 6.9 > on

Any help would be appreciated.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Is your controller is shutting the Co2 solenoid off and on? If so, you might be pushing too much Co2 into the reactor. You want just enough Co2 to keep the reactor pH right in the sweet spot so the controller doesn’t have to shut the Co2 off.


__________________
Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA
For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745

Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
slief is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 05:50 PM   #2638
souk
Registered Member
 
souk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Those charts look better then mine. Lol. I would like to dial it down since my alk is dropping at a steady pace. I have a dual stage reg and if I need to get the carbon dose box as a add on I will. From the Jan 1,2,3 day readings has been 8.3, 7.7, 6.8. I have been manually add soda ash to keep it up. The last time I added sode ash was on the 3rd but forgot to test yesterday. Todays reading on alk is 7.3. I'll have to monitor the drop.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


__________________
Tank:80 rimless,Sump:40br,1-mp40wes,2-mp10wes
Lighting:ATI SP 8 bulb:B+,ABS,B+,UVL A/W,ABS,B+,ABS,B+
Skimmer:Vertex Omega 150,apex lite controller,wxm
souk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 05:53 PM   #2639
souk
Registered Member
 
souk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by slief View Post
Is your controller is shutting the Co2 solenoid off and on? If so, you might be pushing too much Co2 into the reactor. You want just enough Co2 to keep the reactor pH right in the sweet spot so the controller doesn’t have to shut the Co2 off.
It's only turning off once it hits 6.4. The numbers will go 6.6 and then shoot up to 6.9 then start to come back down.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


__________________
Tank:80 rimless,Sump:40br,1-mp40wes,2-mp10wes
Lighting:ATI SP 8 bulb:B+,ABS,B+,UVL A/W,ABS,B+,ABS,B+
Skimmer:Vertex Omega 150,apex lite controller,wxm
souk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 05:54 PM   #2640
yellojello
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 146
Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

Fluctuation of a few 1/100 seems pretty good to me. Since you are “zoomed” in on your numbers, looks like a lot of fluctuation, but zoom out a little and it probably looks like a straight line.


yellojello is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/05/2018, 06:46 PM   #2641
slief
RC Sponsor

 
slief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Simi Valley, Ca
Posts: 12,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by souk View Post
It's only turning off once it hits 6.4. The numbers will go 6.6 and then shoot up to 6.9 then start to come back down.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Use the compare tab in the CaRx pH grap and overlay the temp on the pH graph. Temp has a direct impact on pH so if your temp is going up and down by even 1 degree, your pH will follow.

If your flow rate is consistent (which it should be with a masterflex) then your Co2 rate is fluctuating (low Co2 pressure in the tank could cause that) or the rise and fall coincides with temp or something else. Could even be something electrical in the tank that is turning on and off. Probe wires should never be run parallel to power wires for example.


__________________
Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA
For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745

Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
slief is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 10:20 AM   #2642
hkgar
Registered Member
 
hkgar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dewitt MI
Posts: 3,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by souk View Post
It's only turning off once it hits 6.4. The numbers will go 6.6 and then shoot up to 6.9 then start to come back down.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Change your Apex program to just shut off the regulator if pH gets to 6.3 (lower than that and it can turn media into mush). Watch it for a day and see where it settles out. If tank dKH continues to decrease than increase the PSI or bubble count to lower the pH of the effleunt. If dKH increases than lower the PSI or bubble count to raise the effluent pH. Do not set a high shutoff with the Apex.


__________________
Gary


180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 3 250W Radiums,4 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: Yellow/Purple, Red Head, Hoevans, Possum Wrasses, 2 Barred Rabbit, Cherub & Spotbreast Angle, Kole, Purple & Atlantic Blue Tangs, Matted Filefish, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals
hkgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 10:27 AM   #2643
souk
Registered Member
 
souk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by slief View Post
Use the compare tab in the CaRx pH grap and overlay the temp on the pH graph. Temp has a direct impact on pH so if your temp is going up and down by even 1 degree, your pH will follow.

If your flow rate is consistent (which it should be with a masterflex) then your Co2 rate is fluctuating (low Co2 pressure in the tank could cause that) or the rise and fall coincides with temp or something else. Could even be something electrical in the tank that is turning on and off. Probe wires should never be run parallel to power wires for example.
Thanks. I'll try it out later and see what I find.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


__________________
Tank:80 rimless,Sump:40br,1-mp40wes,2-mp10wes
Lighting:ATI SP 8 bulb:B+,ABS,B+,UVL A/W,ABS,B+,ABS,B+
Skimmer:Vertex Omega 150,apex lite controller,wxm
souk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 10:31 AM   #2644
souk
Registered Member
 
souk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
Change your Apex program to just shut off the regulator if pH gets to 6.3 (lower than that and it can turn media into mush). Watch it for a day and see where it settles out. If tank dKH continues to decrease than increase the PSI or bubble count to lower the pH of the effleunt. If dKH increases than lower the PSI or bubble count to raise the effluent pH. Do not set a high shutoff with the Apex.
Thanks for the tip. I'll change it to 6.3 and remove the off line in apex program.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


__________________
Tank:80 rimless,Sump:40br,1-mp40wes,2-mp10wes
Lighting:ATI SP 8 bulb:B+,ABS,B+,UVL A/W,ABS,B+,ABS,B+
Skimmer:Vertex Omega 150,apex lite controller,wxm
souk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 10:44 AM   #2645
ReefPharmer
Registered Member
 
ReefPharmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: los angeles
Posts: 1,764
Not sure how everyone else is dealing with it but i am having trouble with collecting co2 at the top of the Geo 618, running approx 1 bubble per 1.5-2 seconds. The tubing is 17 on a masterflex running at 50 (the number on the screen display). Every 2 days or so i have to prime out the bubble at the top of the reactor as it collects and interferes with the re circulation pump. Its not large enough to stop the pump from working completely but it is large enough to keep it from working properly. My reactor ph is 6.8.


ReefPharmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 10:47 AM   #2646
souk
Registered Member
 
souk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefPharmer View Post
Not sure how everyone else is dealing with it but i am having trouble with collecting co2 at the top of the Geo 618, running approx 1 bubble per 1.5-2 seconds. The tubing is 17 on a masterflex running at 50 (the number on the screen display). Every 2 days or so i have to prime out the bubble at the top of the reactor as it collects and interferes with the re circulation pump. Its not large enough to stop the pump from working completely but it is large enough to keep it from working properly. My reactor ph is 6.8.
Have you rerouted any of the input/output or still like the original setup?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


__________________
Tank:80 rimless,Sump:40br,1-mp40wes,2-mp10wes
Lighting:ATI SP 8 bulb:B+,ABS,B+,UVL A/W,ABS,B+,ABS,B+
Skimmer:Vertex Omega 150,apex lite controller,wxm
souk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 11:00 AM   #2647
ReefPharmer
Registered Member
 
ReefPharmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: los angeles
Posts: 1,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by souk View Post
Have you rerouted any of the input/output or still like the original setup?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
everything is original. The pump pushes into the reactor and the effluent from the reactor is an open line into the sump. This way there is no resistance w/ fluid going into and out of the reactor (at least thats the idea)


ReefPharmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 11:01 AM   #2648
slief
RC Sponsor

 
slief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Simi Valley, Ca
Posts: 12,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefPharmer View Post
Not sure how everyone else is dealing with it but i am having trouble with collecting co2 at the top of the Geo 618, running approx 1 bubble per 1.5-2 seconds. The tubing is 17 on a masterflex running at 50 (the number on the screen display). Every 2 days or so i have to prime out the bubble at the top of the reactor as it collects and interferes with the re circulation pump. Its not large enough to stop the pump from working completely but it is large enough to keep it from working properly. My reactor ph is 6.8.
I think your pushing too much Co2 into the reactor which is causing gas build up in it. That or you have air coming in someplace between the pump and sump. I run at 63ml/min and a Co2 rate of 1 bubble every 3 seconds at 3 PSI. This maintains a pH of about 6.5- 6.6 in a Geo 818 which is much larger than your 618. You are pushing nearly twice as much Co2 with less flow going through a smaller reactor so I think it’s a case of more Co2 going into the reactor than there needs to be and it’s not able to exit quick enough which is resulting in excess Co2 in the reactor.


__________________
Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA
For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745

Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
slief is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 11:33 AM   #2649
souk
Registered Member
 
souk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefPharmer View Post
everything is original. The pump pushes into the reactor and the effluent from the reactor is an open line into the sump. This way there is no resistance w/ fluid going into and out of the reactor (at least thats the idea)
You are injecting too much co2 or you will have to reroute your tubes. If you decide to reroute and need more help I can post some pix of my setup.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


__________________
Tank:80 rimless,Sump:40br,1-mp40wes,2-mp10wes
Lighting:ATI SP 8 bulb:B+,ABS,B+,UVL A/W,ABS,B+,ABS,B+
Skimmer:Vertex Omega 150,apex lite controller,wxm
souk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/06/2018, 11:47 AM   #2650
LQT
Registered Member
 
LQT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairfield, CT
Posts: 984
Souk, are you pushing or pulling with your Masterflex through your reactor? I would love to see how you rerouted your lines to avoid bubble build up on the lid of your reactor. This almost seems like a common issue with GEO reactors and would like to see how you addressed this issue. Trying to cover all my bases before I get my Watson Marlow and GEO 612 up and running. Thanks!


__________________
- Leon

Working on an upgrade: Deep Blue 57 Edge Acro Garden
LQT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:58 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014