Lanthanum chloride

tom g · 01/26/2018, 06:49 AM

Hey there i have a huge issue with high phosphates.
I have been looking into gfo..rowophos..phosgaurd..and lanthium chloride..this is an office tank which I don't have the ability to be there daily...to monitor ...
I also don't have much room in the sump to put a filter sock to run lanthium what other ways can I dose it ...
I can run phosban reactor with gfo ...or rowophos
Phosgaurd they say to remove after 4 days ...the reason I believe for the high phosphates is my lack of husbandry
I am trying to catch up...any ideas ... i would like to try the lanthium but not sure it would be wise if the filter floss will get clogged fast ..
Any thoughts would be appreciated...
Thanks

josephxsxn · 01/26/2018, 08:15 AM

Can you please share what you phosphates are at currently? That can impact the effectiveness of some of these methods.

tom g · 01/26/2018, 09:59 AM

My reading with a Hanna url is 58

josephxsxn · 01/26/2018, 10:07 AM

Perhaps I am confused, isn't the ULR HANNA in ppb not ppm? So you would have a converted number of 0.058ppm. I think that's fine and wouldn't even try to change anything so long as it floats around there and you get the husbandry under control. But I think at this low of a number GFO will be your only way to take it lower, I have not read much on Lanthanum chloride being used under 1ppm only over it.

Cheapreef · 01/26/2018, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephxsxn

Perhaps I am confused, isn't the ULR HANNA in ppb not ppm? So you would have a converted number of 0.058ppm. I think that's fine and wouldn't even try to change anything so long as it floats around there and you get the husbandry under control. But I think at this low of a number GFO will be your only way to take it lower, I have not read much on Lanthanum chloride being used under 1ppm only over it.

No that's wrong. Would be 58 X 0.003066 = 0.177

Cheapreef · 01/26/2018, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom g

Hey there i have a huge issue with high phosphates.
I have been looking into gfo..rowophos..phosgaurd..and lanthium chloride..this is an office tank which I don't have the ability to be there daily...to monitor ...
I also don't have much room in the sump to put a filter sock to run lanthium what other ways can I dose it ...
I can run phosban reactor with gfo ...or rowophos
Phosgaurd they say to remove after 4 days ...the reason I believe for the high phosphates is my lack of husbandry
I am trying to catch up...any ideas ... i would like to try the lanthium but not sure it would be wise if the filter floss will get clogged fast ..
Any thoughts would be appreciated...
Thanks

If your going to use Lanthanum Chloride do so very slowly over a week or so, not all at one time IMO. When I need to dose (haven't in my current tank) I dosed into a filter sock in front of my skimmer intake. It will precipitate instantly, no need to keep the filter sock in for very long.

tom g · 01/26/2018, 10:27 AM

Yes I am doing reading before I do anything
I don't have much room in sump as it's a 15 gallon
Tank... two compartments one for slimmer vertex 100
And one for return pump ...and ato

josephxsxn · 01/26/2018, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheapreef

No that's wrong. Would be 58 X 0.003066 = 0.177

Thank you, your right. I was not thinking about it not actually being P04 and needing to be converted. I have the normal Phosphate not Phosphorus one so its a step I don't typically do.

tom g · 01/26/2018, 11:01 AM

Is that what in am suppose to do to convert it to ppm ...

josephxsxn · 01/26/2018, 11:10 AM

Yes Cheapreef's formula is correct.

Here is a quote from bertoni explaining this

Quote:

PO4--- is one form of phosphate, and that's what we hobbyists usually report. Plain P is just the phosphorus part. A PO4--- ion weighs about three times what a phosphorus ion weighs, so there's a difference of three when reporting.

So its your P value = 58 * the weight of P04 3.066 divided by 1000 to get to from ppb to ppm. Or as 1 operation 58 * 0.003066 as cCheapreef stated.

P[ppb] * 0.003066 = PO4[ppm]

tom g · 01/26/2018, 11:15 AM

Well if it's that then maybe I'll just use gfo
Which is more used

josephxsxn · 01/26/2018, 11:52 AM

I think GFO has alot more popularity then LC.

bertoni · 01/26/2018, 05:55 PM

.177 ppm seems about right to me. That's high enough that I would consider using some GFO to reduce the level, although there are other approaches. Lanthanum chloride would save some money, but it forms a precipitate that should be filtered and exported, so it's not as convenient. You could try some GFO and see how the cost adds up over time. GFO can be regenerated, as another possible cost-saving approach.

tom g · 01/27/2018, 07:39 AM

I must admit when I first tested and saw the number on the hanna tester I must say I did feel shocked and terrible that I had let this get so bad and that it was my fault .
yes I will try gfo , the cost for gfo is far less then phosgaurd and rowophos and any other phosphate removing stuff.
is there a chart that will help me put the right amout in for a 46 gallon tank
thanks again for the help
I will run some gfo this weekend and post some results when I get a chance too
cheers

tom g · 01/27/2018, 08:51 AM

so I did just chk my hanna chker and it is not the ulr unit , it is actually the phosphate checker with measurements in ppm....
sorry for the confusion I assumed I purchased the ulr unit

Cheapreef · 01/27/2018, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom g

so I did just chk my hanna chker and it is not the ulr unit , it is actually the phosphate checker with measurements in ppm....
sorry for the confusion I assumed I purchased the ulr unit

If that is the case your phosphates are actually 0.58, did you do a retest to be sure that is the actual level? If it is I would do some large water changes over the next week or so and retest at that point.

Edited: Sorry missed the 0. infront of that reading. lol

josephxsxn · 01/27/2018, 10:57 AM

Can you please share the model number of the colorimeter your using? The 713 has a range of 0 - 2.5ppm,. So are you using a 713 and mean your phosphates are at 0.58 ppm?

tom g · 01/27/2018, 11:33 AM

Hi 713-phosphate

bertoni · 01/27/2018, 07:25 PM

Okay, I agree that the phosphate level is around 0.58 ppm, if the meter and reagents are working.

tom g · 01/28/2018, 05:18 PM

well after a few days I decided to run rowophos , as I have been running gfo and it does work but over a slower time ...well a few days with rowophos and my numbers have dropped down to 40 ppm ...hopefully I can get it down less when the rowophos is spent , will that be when my phosphates numbers stop dropping .l do u reuse rowophos or is it a replace .
cheers
tom

bertoni · 01/28/2018, 06:24 PM

RowaPhos can be regenerating using lye and a strong acid, but it's a fair amount of effort. Other brands might hold up better under the process. We can post details if you are interested.

tom g · 01/28/2018, 06:27 PM

I'm not sure I would do it prob cheaper to just get the numbers down then continue with the gfo , the bag of gfo I have has no measurments on what I am suppose to use , where do I find info on how much gfo to use ..right now I have been using a cup...

josephxsxn · 01/28/2018, 06:35 PM

You can test the effluent from the GFO to see if it's spend and not reducing phosphates compared to the tanks readings.

bertoni · 01/28/2018, 08:03 PM

Right, when the output of the reactor matches the tank in measured phosphate, the media likely is shot. That can take only a few hours if the phosphate level is fairly high, and 0.58 ppm definitely is fairly high.

tom g · 02/07/2018, 06:48 PM

well last nite I officially started lanthium chloride , I added 10 mls of lanthium and I changed batteries on my phosphate tester , from .57 last nite to .47 today , still being dripped in ,into a sock . hopefully it drops a bit more and I will up the dosages so I don't drastically drop phosphates

01/26/2018, 06:49 AM	#1
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	Lanthanum chloride Hey there i have a huge issue with high phosphates. I have been looking into gfo..rowophos..phosgaurd..and lanthium chloride..this is an office tank which I don't have the ability to be there daily...to monitor ... I also don't have much room in the sump to put a filter sock to run lanthium what other ways can I dose it ... I can run phosban reactor with gfo ...or rowophos Phosgaurd they say to remove after 4 days ...the reason I believe for the high phosphates is my lack of husbandry I am trying to catch up...any ideas ... i would like to try the lanthium but not sure it would be wise if the filter floss will get clogged fast .. Any thoughts would be appreciated... Thanks

01/26/2018, 09:59 AM	#3
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	Phosphates My reading with a Hanna url is 58

01/26/2018, 10:27 AM	#7
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	Phosphates Yes I am doing reading before I do anything I don't have much room in sump as it's a 15 gallon Tank... two compartments one for slimmer vertex 100 And one for return pump ...and ato

01/26/2018, 11:01 AM	#9
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	Formula Is that what in am suppose to do to convert it to ppm ...

01/26/2018, 11:15 AM	#11
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	Formula Well if it's that then maybe I'll just use gfo Which is more used

01/26/2018, 08:15 AM	#2
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	Can you please share what you phosphates are at currently? That can impact the effectiveness of some of these methods.

01/26/2018, 10:07 AM	#4
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	Perhaps I am confused, isn't the ULR HANNA in ppb not ppm? So you would have a converted number of 0.058ppm. I think that's fine and wouldn't even try to change anything so long as it floats around there and you get the husbandry under control. But I think at this low of a number GFO will be your only way to take it lower, I have not read much on Lanthanum chloride being used under 1ppm only over it.

01/26/2018, 11:52 AM	#12
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	I think GFO has alot more popularity then LC.

01/26/2018, 05:55 PM	#13
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	.177 ppm seems about right to me. That's high enough that I would consider using some GFO to reduce the level, although there are other approaches. Lanthanum chloride would save some money, but it forms a precipitate that should be filtered and exported, so it's not as convenient. You could try some GFO and see how the cost adds up over time. GFO can be regenerated, as another possible cost-saving approach. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/27/2018, 07:39 AM	#14
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	phosphates I must admit when I first tested and saw the number on the hanna tester I must say I did feel shocked and terrible that I had let this get so bad and that it was my fault . yes I will try gfo , the cost for gfo is far less then phosgaurd and rowophos and any other phosphate removing stuff. is there a chart that will help me put the right amout in for a 46 gallon tank thanks again for the help I will run some gfo this weekend and post some results when I get a chance too cheers

01/27/2018, 08:51 AM	#15
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	phosphates so I did just chk my hanna chker and it is not the ulr unit , it is actually the phosphate checker with measurements in ppm.... sorry for the confusion I assumed I purchased the ulr unit

01/27/2018, 10:57 AM	#17
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	Can you please share the model number of the colorimeter your using? The 713 has a range of 0 - 2.5ppm,. So are you using a 713 and mean your phosphates are at 0.58 ppm?

01/27/2018, 11:33 AM	#18
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	Hanna checker Hi 713-phosphate

01/27/2018, 07:25 PM	#19
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Okay, I agree that the phosphate level is around 0.58 ppm, if the meter and reagents are working. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/28/2018, 05:18 PM	#20
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	phosphates well after a few days I decided to run rowophos , as I have been running gfo and it does work but over a slower time ...well a few days with rowophos and my numbers have dropped down to 40 ppm ...hopefully I can get it down less when the rowophos is spent , will that be when my phosphates numbers stop dropping .l do u reuse rowophos or is it a replace . cheers tom

01/28/2018, 06:24 PM	#21
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	RowaPhos can be regenerating using lye and a strong acid, but it's a fair amount of effort. Other brands might hold up better under the process. We can post details if you are interested. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/28/2018, 06:27 PM	#22
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	phosphates I'm not sure I would do it prob cheaper to just get the numbers down then continue with the gfo , the bag of gfo I have has no measurments on what I am suppose to use , where do I find info on how much gfo to use ..right now I have been using a cup...

01/28/2018, 06:35 PM	#23
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	You can test the effluent from the GFO to see if it's spend and not reducing phosphates compared to the tanks readings.

01/28/2018, 08:03 PM	#24
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Right, when the output of the reactor matches the tank in measured phosphate, the media likely is shot. That can take only a few hours if the phosphate level is fairly high, and 0.58 ppm definitely is fairly high. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

02/07/2018, 06:48 PM	#25
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	lanthium well last nite I officially started lanthium chloride , I added 10 mls of lanthium and I changed batteries on my phosphate tester , from .57 last nite to .47 today , still being dripped in ,into a sock . hopefully it drops a bit more and I will up the dosages so I don't drastically drop phosphates