Which route to go

[ninjastar310]

100 gal tank


tank age 1.5yr

200+lb of live rock
6-8in deep sand bed
pH: 8.2-8.4
Nitrate: 5ppm
Temp: 76-79
SG: 1.022-1.024
Ca:450
dKH:8

Sump/skimmer/hob refugium/ cheato reactor in 2days
Monthly water changes
Nori with garlic once daily
Spirulina with selcone and garlic once daily

1-six line wrase (4 yrs)
1-Rose Bubble anemone( 4yrs)
1-Green brittle starfish (4 yrs sent to sump due to possibility of fish disapreance..........i dont even know anymore)
1-Cleaner shrimp (4yrs)
1-blood red fire shrimp (4yrs)
20+ head ducan (2yrs)
1-hoveens wrase (5 months)
1- dimon watchman goby (5 months)
2-pajama cardina fish (5 months qt and died last week)
5- chromies (5 months they all started to dissapear one by one)
5-blue dams (5months they all started to dissappear one by one and only 1 is left)
2-kavderns candinafish (5 months 1 dissapread a while ago and 1 died in qtlast week)
1-Flame angle (5months disappeard 6weks ago)
1-salfin tang(3 months died 2days ago in qt what looks like brook, excessive color lost, scratches all over body, laid on its side)
1-powder blue tang (3 months went missing 2 month)
1-powder brown tang (3 months went missing 2 month)
1-holdhead goby (1 month))
2-pink anthias (1 month female died 1 week unknown reasons found dead, male dissapread last week)
1-Convict tang (3weeks died 2week unknow)
1-Khole Tang (3weeks disappeard 2weeks)
1- Orage spot rabbit fish (3weeks)
2-clowns (3week male died last week while in qt with salfin, male had heavy breathing and looked lazy swimming, female found today dead, dimond goby scooped her out of his home and push the body out


Can someone help me in the reason why my fish are just going one by one

The only fish left now is my six line wrasse, hovens wrasse, diamond goby, and orange spot rabbit fish and currently no signs of anything wrong. And my pajamas just died from what looks like ich when I qt them a couple days ago but then their fins were torn.

I have a couple question

1-Would it be best just to watch everything in my tank for the next 2 months and play it by ear on removing them to ensure nothing is left in the tank or should I just remove all of them?

2-Would a UV help at all and if so what is your guys thoughts of the coralife UV??

3-Could my green brittle star be one of the reason why for the disappeance?? He was placed in sump 3 weeks ago but fish still disappear and or die.

[justthewife]

I had a green brittle star that was eating all of my fish before. He looked so innocent and I was told he would not be the cause of disappearing fish in my tank until we caught him red handed one night. After we removed him, the fish no longer disappeared.

[OhsCC]

Some of those fish are some big fish (tangs, etc.) just to go "missing".

100 gallon tank with 200 lbs of live rock is not crazy big that you will not see those big fish everyday. You should be able to notice the exact day they are missing with that size of tank and begin looking around for them. If you can't find something a day after they disappear then something is eating them.

And if they go missing in only a 100 gallon tank you will find them on the bottom or floating on the top.

[ninjastar310]

Originally Posted by OhsCC

Some of those fish are some big fish (tangs, etc.) just to go "missing".

100 gallon tank with 200 lbs of live rock is not crazy big that you will not see those big fish everyday. You should be able to notice the exact day they are missing with that size of tank and begin looking around for them. If you can't find something a day after they disappear then something is eating them.

And if they go missing in only a 100 gallon tank you will find them on the bottom or floating on the top.

Thats the thing the only ones that I found dead and sideways on the floor would only be the Female pink anthias, Female clown but not till my watchman took her out of his den, Convict tang who was found in the front conner sideways and thats about it.....Majority of the fish just ended up missing and still happened even after I removed my green brittle star.

Also I would like to add that I think its a little more than 200+live rock and my tank is tall and deep and the rocks almost go everywhere....I have to rescape xP

[justthewife]

You don't have a mantis shrimp hitchhiker in there somewhere do you?

Other than that, my first suggestion would be to stop buying new fish for a while and see what happens with the fish you have.

Chromis in my opinion will always die one by one and be left with only the most aggressive one so that is not surprising you only have one left.

Convict Tang could have not been eating? I find those to be really sensitive fish.

Do you have a lid on your tank? Do you see any signs of illness with the fish you currently have? Are you buying your fish from one supplier or several?

[justthewife]

Also, you could try to cut down on the garlic. Just feed with selcon and no garlic for a while. There are different opinions on feeding fish garlic. Some say it is toxic, others say it is helpful.

What was the reason you were considering a UV?

[ninjastar310]

Originally Posted by justthewife

You don't have a mantis shrimp hitchhiker in there somewhere do you?

Not that I can see at night or find

Originally Posted by justthewife

Convict Tang could have not been eating? I find those to be really sensitive fish.

All the fish were eatting healthy then bam gone.

Originally Posted by justthewife

Do you have a lid on your tank? Do you see any signs of illness with the fish you currently have? Are you buying your fish from one supplier or several?

The only ones I can id would be the sailfin and clowns died from what looks like brook, pajama died from ich

[ninjastar310]

Just wondering does my tank have to be complete fallow for 76days to be sure that their is no parasite and bacteriaor or can my fish stay in and monitor for the next 3 months and if everything is good starting qt new fish to add?

[SAT]

Given the short duration you have had many of these fish, and the way some of these species will either jump or bully each other, significant mortality might be expected. However, I agree this seems excessive.

A 72+ day fallow period generally refers to the life cycle for Ich. If you don't have Ich in the tank then that duration has no particular validity. The symptoms of Ich are pretty hard to miss, so I'm assuming that's not your problem.

This doesn't seem like a disease to me. Fish only occasionally develop a disease so quickly that you don't see any symptoms at all up to the day they disappear. Similarly, I would not suspect problems with water conditions.

A mantis shrimp would be a perfect explanation. If you have one, chances are you will periodically hear the click it makes with its claws, even if you never actually see it. The bad news is that removing a mantis shrimp can be really difficult.

Are you seeing any signs of fish being chased around? Perhaps some bruised skin, frayed tail or popeye? How about something mechanical, like an unprotected powerhead? Are you sure they are not getting sucked into your plumbing? I strong pump could pulverize a fish so it disappears.

I agree with not adding any more fish until the situation stabilizes.

[SAT]

ninjastar310,

By the way...

To Reef Central

Sorry, I didn't notice your reference to Ich at first. Was that in quarantine before going into your DT or in your DT. If the latter then 72 days fallow is a good idea.

If you have had Ich in your tank for a while and perhaps didn't recognize the symptoms, that would also explain the deaths.

[ninjastar310]

[ninjastar310]

Bump for a quick id of whats might be in my tank killing everything

[ninjastar310]

So the only fish remain and caught and transfered to 29gal are the following

-pajama cardinal
-six line wrasse
-hoovens wrasse
-Orange spot rabbit fish
-goldhead goby
-dimond goby

Is this okay for a 29gal with a sponge filter and marineland 350 hob with 4 bricks of I think is ceramic media thats been in my tank for the past 4yrs

[ninjastar310]

Is it okay to add a bowl of sand for my wrasse and goby??

[SAT]

I think those fish will fit in a 29 if they are small. Monitor the ammonia closely... you will probably need to use a conditioner and/or large water changes until the filter is fully conditioned.

A bowl of sand is fine. However, if you are planning to use copper, you should choose fine silica sand (e.g., "play sand") instead of aragonite. For hypo, aragonite is fine.

[ninjastar310]

Originally Posted by SAT

I think those fish will fit in a 29 if they are small. Monitor the ammonia closely... you will probably need to use a conditioner and/or large water changes until the filter is fully conditioned.

A bowl of sand is fine. However, if you are planning to use copper, you should choose fine silica sand (e.g., "play sand") instead of aragonite. For hypo, aragonite is fine.

I thought that using a conditioner like prime or quick start is bad??

[HBtank]

Prime makes ammonia non-toxic, still reads on most test kits, but will not hurt the fish. Can be used in a pinch to help in hospital tanks with cycle issues.

CAUTION: Prime and most conditioners also make copper treatments more toxic to fish. Never use them together.

[ninjastar310]

Originally Posted by HBtank

Prime makes ammonia non-toxic, still reads on most test kits, but will not hurt the fish. Can be used in a pinch to help in hospital tanks with cycle issues.

CAUTION: Prime and most conditioners also make copper treatments more toxic to fish. Never use them together.

Ive read that I can get away with it if I use prime first then copper a day or so after. Is that true??

Also why is it bad to have live sand in a bowl when copper is being used?? Also whats the difference between copper, paraguard, and corcupine??

[SAT]

It's not "live" sand that is a problem, it's the carbonate which will absorb copper ions.

The classic treatment uses copper sulphate at 0.15ppm. The other flavors are copper bound into an organic molecule, which is less toxic (thus allowing/needing a higher concentration) and stays in solution better. Note that some copper test kits don't work with these flavors.

Paraguard is not copper and I doubt it works reliably.

[HBtank]

Originally Posted by ninjastar310

Ive read that I can get away with it if I use prime first then copper a day or so after. Is that true??

Also why is it bad to have live sand in a bowl when copper is being used?? Also whats the difference between copper, paraguard, and corcupine??

Yeah it will dissipate with some time, but frankly I would want to get the filter/cycle under control before starting a treatment.

[ninjastar310]

Originally Posted by HBtank

Yeah it will dissipate with some time, but frankly I would want to get the filter/cycle under control before starting a treatment.

The ammonia badge right now is at .5 or one above safe........The goldheaded goby didnt make it and the dimond baack goby at night tries to make a run but cant since theirs a cover...........

Finally put sand it the hovens wrasse finally calmed down but the dimond goby is worrying me and the orange spotted rabbit fish hasnt went back to its normal colors yet..

[ninjastar310]

Originally Posted by SAT

It's not "live" sand that is a problem, it's the carbonate which will absorb copper ions.

The classic treatment uses copper sulphate at 0.15ppm. The other flavors are copper bound into an organic molecule, which is less toxic (thus allowing/needing a higher concentration) and stays in solution better. Note that some copper test kits don't work with these flavors.

Paraguard is not copper and I doubt it works reliably.

Why do you think Paraguard wouldnt work and also how would I treat the tank if I have a wrasse in it or any other fish for the near future that are sensitive to copper?

Originally Posted by HBtank

Yeah it will dissipate with some time, but frankly I would want to get the filter/cycle under control before starting a treatment.

Added a bottle of Biospira so hopfully it helps out? Is .05ppm bad to start doing treatment.....As for filtration now, it has a marineland 350. 40gal rated sponge and also a 75gal rated sponge.

[ninjastar310]

Does dosing stressguard help before dosing??

[SAT]

Originally Posted by ninjastar310

Why do you think Paraguard wouldnt work and also how would I treat the tank if I have a wrasse in it or any other fish for the near future that are sensitive to copper?

There are exactly four treatments that are generally accepted to be safe and effective: copper, hyposalinity, tank transfer, and chloroquine. All these methods have downsides. I use TTM.

[ninjastar310]

Originally Posted by SAT

There are exactly four treatments that are generally accepted to be safe and effective: copper, hyposalinity, tank transfer, and chloroquine. All these methods have downsides. I use TTM.

I would use the TTM but I dont have a second tank thats that big to do so. But as for using copper with copper sensitive fish, would paraguard work vs using cucupine , ich x,copper safe?? And if I dose it slowly which one would work the best??