The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[GuySmilie]

Originally posted by Yinepu

I will be making some rocks this weekend.. so I'll be sure to post my recipe and what all I do as well as any results!

I already have the Portland cement type I/II
play sand
crushed oyster shell
crushed coral

still need to get some salt...

Yinepu,
I've built rock several different ways now since joining up with this group.
My favorite recipe uses a mortar mix instead of pure Portland cement. A mortar mix has a pre-measured volume of sand already blended in (for the needed aggregate function). Menards sells a mortar mix that is rather light in color (more so than most of them, IMO).

In a clean 5 gallon poly bucket, I measure out a volume of this mortar mix, then get it wet enough with clean tap water to work with (about like dry cottage cheese). Once I get these two ingredients thoroughly blended, I add an equal volume of rock salt (Mortons in the blue bag) and thoroughly incorporate it into the mix. Then I pour my aggregate into moulds that I create in plastic bus tubs (like the bus boys use in restaurants) that I've half-filled with damp crushed calcium poultry feed additive (looks like fine medium gray sand).

Once I get everything cast and the tools cleaned up, I cut open a poly garbage bag and drape it over the bus tub and secure the bag to the tub with a length of electrical or duct tape just under the lip of the tub. Then I let is set undisturbed for seven full days! (this is a very important step that many folks try to rush. If you try to rush this step, you will probably end up with broken rock)

Wrapping the tubs with poly garbage bags allows the cement to hydrate properly (in a moist environment) until it is strong enough to handle. After waiting 7 full days, I remove them from the moulds, brush them off, and gently set them in a Stearite poly tote container filled with fresh tap water.

For the first few days, I change the water daily. There will be a lot of different leachants on and around the rocks. I just swish them around in the water before dumping the water out and refilling with fresh water. After the first week in the water, I only change the water every week.

This water cure is when most of the pock marks and crevices develop in the rock as the water leaches out the rock salt the longer it sets in the water.

Once you think they may be getting down to a manageable pH range, remove them from the tote, thoroughly rinse out the tote, scrub and rinse the rock again, return them to the tote and fill it with fresh clean water. Let them set for a few days. Some drop a powerhead in there, but I don't since I do this all outside. After a few days swish the water around real good for a few minutes, then take a sample to test.

Once you get the pH in line, you're good to go. HTH!
Guy

[kevin1234]

hey anyone knows what appened to the guy that put is diy rocks in the gulf?
I know he last posted in this tread back in 2006 but it could be interesting to knoe if is rocks were seeded with corals and other stuff.

[kevin1234]

I am going to do a batch but I just have question,
im my reef tank my ph is almost always around 7.6 can I had a little bit of diy rock into it to make the ph raise a little?

[Yinepu]

Originally posted by GuySmilie
Yinepu,
I've built rock several different ways now since joining up with this group.
My favorite recipe uses a mortar mix instead of pure Portland cement. A mortar mix has a pre-measured volume of sand already blended in (for the needed aggregate function). Menards sells a mortar mix that is rather light in color (more so than most of them, IMO).

Thanks for that info Guy.. I'm always interested in new ways to make the rock (for variety mostly). What was the name of the mortar mix that you used?

[Chasmodes]

Travis and Insane Reefer, so that your great work on this subject won't get lost, could you please each repost your summary?

I tried to quote it and have it show up again, but since the first split thread is closed it wouldn't let me do it. Then, I was going to quote it from scratch, copying and pasting to look like your posts but then figured that you would be better off posting yourself. At least that way you still show "ownership" of the material.

Nice work to both of you!!!!!!!!!!

[Nammy]

Fiji does the DIY rocks too.
Check it out!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1091011

[mdms]

Its great to see flourishing Live rock farming industries in the US. In Australia there is only one supplier of Aquacultured live rock nation wide.

our strict quarantine laws do not allow the importation of corals , inverts and live rock . We also have a ban on transporting any plants and corals from the east coast into the west coast.
This means in Australia we only get to buy Australian corals. ( fish importation is allowed).

also, there is no law that allows ocean floor live rock farming. however the harvesting the real wild live rock is allowed!

if anyone attempted to farm live rock on the ocean bed, you would first be charged with littering. and retreving your live rock would put in hot water for stealing.

iv noticed on this forum some individuals who have placed live rock to be cured in water ways. Down under this also carries a fine. (unless you have a permit off course)

Over all, there is no policy in Australia in relation to aquaculture on the the open ocean floor. The restrictive quarantine laws leave the aquarist with no choice but to use wild live rock.

currently the Australian price of wild harvested live rock is $15 AUD per kilo. with only one supplier of aquacultured live rock, the idea of artificial live rock has not even been heard of over here.

This thread has been very useful for me, and i am considering options and ideas on how to promote artificial live rock down here.

what do you think i should do to help solve this problem?

[drauka99]

Make some and start showing it off at your local marine societies would be how I would proceed

[silverwolf72]

Has anyone done any displacement tests to see if the DIY rock is the same as live rock. I would think this would be the best way to tell how porous they are compared to similar sized live rock.

[Insane Reefer]

Originally posted by silverwolf72
...At some point it has to be started with already live rock.

Silverwolf welcome to the thread, but I have to call you on this one - sorry.
Several places sell most of the organisms that are considered beneficial, and if one is really worried about evil things like hydroids (as for seahorse tanks), that would be the way to go. You can purchase bacteria, coralline, micro stars, 'pods, worms of all sorts, etc. There is really no reason at all to use real live rock, unless you want to.

[drauka99]

problem with thats idea is the various grades of liverock out there. I have persoanlly seen some large chuns that were very light and porus and then saw small peices that were basiclly solid. So I would think any data gathered from tests like that would be inconclusive.

I belive the amount of lifeforms found in the rock after a substantial time with other natural live rock is the best way to detirmine how well the artifical live rock is doing.
Just my honest opinion

[Insane Reefer]

Originally posted by silverwolf72
Has anyone done any displacement tests to see if the DIY rock is the same as live rock. I would think this would be the best way to tell how porous they are compared to similar sized live rock.

It has been talked about but no one has actually tried it. My personal thoughts are that since no two live rocks are similar, and no two batches of MMLR ever seem to come out just the same (for me at least), a test of this sort is arbitrary at best - a laboratory would be needed to give it a fair test, with a huge sample base.

There have been no peer reviewed studies on live rock that any of us have been able to find (or at least that have been posted). The closest thing I have found was a comparison of aquacultured rock deposited in several different ocean floor locales.

So no one really knows if there is even a "best" rock or not - without test data it all becomes opinion.

[Insane Reefer]

Originally posted by drauka99
...I belive the amount of lifeforms found in the rock after a substantial time with other natural live rock is the best way to detirmine how well the artifical live rock is doing.
Just my honest opinion

You might find this interesting
http://www.hccfl.edu/br/asprograms/a...0868BFB18F.pdf

[Insane Reefer]

Originally posted by mdms
...This thread has been very useful for me, and i am considering options and ideas on how to promote artificial live rock down here.

what do you think i should do to help solve this problem?

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...ementRock.html
You might want to pull this link up, scroll halfway down and you will see a really inexpensive way to do what you want to do. I have thought of doing this, but in Mid-Mo, winter temps would mean building a greenhouse or something like, and would need to be heated (or really powerful water heaters)..

[drauka99]

great thread thanks Insane Reefer. Read it, I actually live in Fl and have been in a couple of those areas before. I personally think the rock that has been developed on here is better than what they used for the tests, looked kind of solid in the pics.

[Insane Reefer]

In reading that, you'll find that most of the rock used were actual old coral rock. Only one of the sampled rocks was cement made, and they used styrofoam?!?

I agree - our rock is better looking typically, and probably more porous.

Thanks Nammy for that MM Walt Smith Fiji thread link. That rock looks mopre porous than Tampa Bays cemet rock.

Talk about ugly rock though...

[drauka99]

styrofom and then they had some with clay - the local DEP has strokes from seeing any clay in narural waterways (atleast freshwater. I've been in Civil Eng. for 7 years now and 2 with coulnty goverment (before I was fed up) and if they saw a spoon full of clay in the water next to one of our work sites they would shut us down and these people were intentionaly place the clay in the bays. Not much but some. Just though I would share.

Great thread guys one of these days when i have some time I will be making some of my own for my projects.

[Insane Reefer]

v4.0

Hey All,
I'm going to post my favorite tips and links every so often so new people can find it all pretty easy. It is a summation of the most commonly asked questions and things I have picked up through making my batches. Some I’ve gleaned from this thread, others I’ve learned from past mistakes and experiments. I've been making DIY man-made rock or aragocrete off and on for close to 8 years. Lately, I have even made some money on my rocks

I thought I’d pass this info on – maybe save someone some frustration or spark a new idea.

I will continue to refine and update this post as more info is added, and repost every so often.



First, good info can be found at these two places - I think everyone who wants to make rock should read these in full. One of the articles gets pretty heavy handed with the science/chemistry aspect, the other babbles on tangents once in a while, but both are worth the read, IMO.
ARAGOCRETE RESEARCH BY TRACY GRAY
Reef Propagation Project:

And this link is for Cement Colorant – I’ve spoken with the vendor and am assured that, given our kure process, this stuff will be safe and colorfast in the aquarium. They sell it in small amounts in rainbow colors and are very cheap.

List of Aggregates
Sand - caribbean/aragonite is best, but very hard to find. Toys R Us carries a play sand that a lot of folks use and report no trouble with. Limestone sand has gotten good results as a DSB, so should also work.
Crushed Coral - AKA "CC". Makes nice, realistic rock, but expensive
Crushed Oyster Shell - AKA "OS". Any shell will work, but OS is very cheap at feed stores.
Salt - Many thanks to Travis Stevens for figuring this out! The salt of choice is "Solar Salt Crystals", typically found as a Water Softener Salt. 99% pure salt. Get the coarsest crystals you can find. Solar Cube can be used, but is sort of chunky - makes nice holes though. Boiling the "cubes" rounds off the edges and makes nicer holes. Solar Pellets can also be used, same as Cubes. Lok at your grocery stores or wally-worlds if your local hardware doesn't have what you want.

Rock Recipes
Ingredients are measured by volume, not weight!

Original Recipe: 4:1 - 3:1 / Salt:Cement
Improved Recipe: 3:1 - 2:1 / Salt:Cement
Ol' Skool Recipe + : 1: 1.5 : 1.5 :1 / Salt:Cement:CC&OS:Sand

Molding Material
Really, pretty much anything that is dry and crumbly will work. I've even used stuffing bread crumbles, but that draws bugs while it dries.

Soil
Salt
Sand
Clay

A certain portion of the molding material will remain on the rocks - this can usually be removed with a short acid bath, followed by a good scrubbing with a plastic or fine wire, bristle brush.

If you use Rubbermaid or Tupperware, you can reuse molding material over and over again. Line cardboard boxes with plastic to prevent moisture leak and wall collapse.

DO NOT Wet Salt, if it is used as a mold material - this means when working with salt, do not add water to the casting box as you would or might with say clay or sand.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Now, I will list my tips and tricks, in no particular order. Many will seem stupid or like common sense, but you don’t know about some people’s kids, lol…

Tips and tricks

1. Wear gloves when making rock. If possible, don’t let the cement get on your skin, especially the dry powder. If possible, wear a painter’s mask when measuring and mixing dry cement; this stuff can really burn the inside of your nose.
2. Setup your work area in advance; cover surfaces with plastic or old sheets if needed (like in your kitchen or living room). Fill casting containers with whatever mold material you are using, or have it standing by within easy reach. Give yourself walkways if you are making a lot of rock – nothing sucks as much as trying to create enough work space after the fact.
3. Think about the weather for not only the day you cast, but the next few days as well, if you plan on doing this outside. Rain can make a mess of things…
4. Use Portland Type I, II (I/II) or III – these are known to be safe for use and make rock with proper porosity.
5. Mix all aggregates excepting salt into the cement before adding water. Add salt after you have reached the right wet consistency, and mix it in lightly – the less salt is leeched off the grains of salt, the stronger your final rocks will be. Water softener salt of the type “Solar Salt Crystals� works wonderfully (Thank you Travis Stevens!).
6. I prefer to use crushed coral and sand in my rocks for long term strength, plus salt to add porosity. The aggregates also give realistic details to the rock. My preferred recipe is 1.5 part cement + 1.5 part sand + 1 part crushed coral/shell mix + 1 part salt, but this is expensive to make. You can also use a mix of 1-1.5 cement + 1-2 crushed oyster shells + 1-2 salt.
Mainly, a 1 part cement to 3-4 parts “other� is acceptable, whatever you want to mix together is up to you and you should be ok if you follow the 1:3-4 part rule.
7. Work in layers for added dimension. If you lay a layer of molding stuff in your container, make a few divots in this molding layer first, and add cement to these first to make lumps on the bottom, you can avoid flat bottomed rocks. Now lay the main part of your rock, adding molding material as needed.
8. You can make neat “cliff-face� striations if you take a handful of salt, and lay it just along the top edge of wet cement, forming a narrow line of salt along the edge, laying a thin layer of cement over the salt, and repeating this to form, on the outer edge of your rock, a sort of cliff that looks to be cut by water action.
9. Anything cast thinner than an inch is likely to break, unless you are careful with it.
10. Find a nice bit of stainless steel or aluminum wire – 2mm or so in width, and bend a handle for one end (remember you will probably be wearing gloves, so bend accordingly). As you cast your rock, use this wire to poke Lots of little tunnels all through the rock – all the way through if you can; this will make the rocks extra porous, and give bug life lots of places to hide and propagate in-tank, as well as allowing more water to move through the rock. Alternatively, you can cast the piece, and then poke as much of it as you can – though this way tends to look a bit contrived. I like the first way better.
11. Once your rock has cured and it has been curing for about a week and if you made it mixed with stuff like crushed coral or shells, mix up a weak acid mix and scrub the outside of your rocks with a stiff bristle brush. Be sure to take proper precautions when working with acid – not only from burns, but from fumes as well!!! If you only made your rock with salt and cement, ignore the acid wash, as your rocks will dissolve, but still give them a vigorous scrubbing - this will loosen the weakest stuff and get rid of it without shedding it all over your tank. If you have shells or coral, this can make the surface even more porous, and clean cement films from shells and the like that might be on the surface. I use a mixture of 1/2c muriatic acid added to 2c water.
12. You can make “lock together� pieces by wrapping a bit of PVC in something like tissue paper or plastic wrap, sticking it in the wet cement of “part a�, and then laying plastic wrap over and around the fresh cement/PVC, and then cast “part b�, making sure to get a good fit around the PVC join. I find this works, but I personally have an easier time if I cast “part a� with PVC set into it, let it cure, then wrap it well with whatever, and cast “part b�, and I can cast really large pieces this way.
13. “Cement Paint�. You can make up a slurry of cement and sand, say 1 part cement to 2 or 3 parts sand, made fairly thin and fairly wet and sloppy, and use it to decorate rock with “coralline algae�. I use white Portland, but I don’t see why white grout or mortar wouldn’t work as well. You can use cement colorants to color the cement any shade you desire. Working with a paintbrush, you can easily replicate the swirling patterns of coralline. I’ve also used this mix to paint/dry brush grey Portland rocks to white.
14. Branching rock/Coral skeletons. Pick PVC pipe a bit thinner than what you want your final piece to be. Cut into appropriate lengths, cutting one end flat and the other at an angle. Drill plenty of holes in the PVC to help the cement stick on. Drill extra holes on the very end that will allow you to tie the pieces onto the “main branch� with zip ties. You can bend PVC into believable shapes using heat from either a propane torch or a heat gun, and a couple of pairs of pliers (use appropriate precautions). After you have your PVC framework, mix a thicker blend of Cement Paint (less water, more cement) and paint/dip the skeleton, covering completely. I recommend hanging to dry, and dipping several times, using a paintbrush to smooth it out and prevent weird drips. When done coating, tie a grocery bag around the hanging piece to preserve moisture and allow to cure 48 hours or more.
15. Think about how corals come to you, as frags and whole colonies, and think about how hard it can be to attach these in your typical rock pile. Flatter surfaces and shallow bowls in larger rock shapes can make latter placement easier.
16. You can make rock “shells� if you want to avoid the rock pile look altogether and these are only limited to your imagination and size constraints. You can stuff the cavity in the back of this hollow construction with cheap $1.99/lbs rock, or whatever you want. I DO NOT recommend making these with the cement and salt only recipe! Make a form of some sort (use your imagination), put it in a box that will fit into your tank (making a rock too big for the target tank blows), and secure it to one side, or more (for multi-part casts) with duct tape. Line rest of box with plastic. I made my form from plastic grocery bags stuffed into a garbage bag, with a little air added, and taped that into the target box. Slowly build the shell wall (adding details as you wish), filling the box with salt/molding material, until you have the form covered with a fairly uniform covering of cement. LEAVE ALONE FOR A WEEK! Cover with plastic if you can.
17. Frag Plugs. If you have extra cement at the end of the day, make frag plugs by using a mini muffin pan, and filling with ½in. of cement. Spray the pan with cooking spray for easier release. These can be put in a mesh bag and cured in the toilet tank.
18. Hate scraping the back wall of your tank? You can make thin wall covering sheets that can be glued with silicone to the back wall of your tank. Alternatively you could make shelves along those lines. I find casting on a sheet of glass covered in plastic works best for this. Also marking out the actual measurements of the back wall onto the glass helps to avoid sizing issues. I DO NOT recommend using the salt and cement only recipes for this application, nor the use of any salt at all! I also mix this just a little wetter than I normally use. Once you are setup, just drool the cement onto the covered glass. I tried doing large sheets, but these mostly were too weak to hold up. I find making smaller pieces (12inX12in or so) that abut like a puzzle work best, and sort of give the illusion of looking at a cracked and crevassed reef wall. After you cast these, they need to be kept moist and unmoved for 3 days. Believe me. They do. And you will need to mist them once a day. I just covered mine with a garbage bag and used a water bottle to mist it. I recommend an acid wash, as described above, once these have kured for a week.
19. If you make a rock or rocks you don't like, either use fresh cement mix to add some new bits, or break the rock up and use it as aggregate in your next batch - no waste is good
20. The moister you can keep the cement while it cures, the harder the final rock will be - try wrapping it in a bag, or misting it while it cures. Supposedly, if you can let it sit for two weeks before starting to kure, it will dramatically speed the kure time.
21. Dust your molding sand with oat flour for easy removal of surface sand. Thanks Rhody!
22. Mix molasses with your molding sand to give it more texture. Thanks Rhody!

Various things I have used and have worked for me for adding details:
1. Cemented Nylon String. Makes realistic tube worm/duster tubes. Make a thin paste of just cement, and dip small lengths of the sting in. Wipe excess off between fingers and lay onto the rock in desired figure.
2. Veggie Capsules. These can make little tunnels when laid end to end in the wet cement, and then covered with more cement. Or poke into outside edges to mimic polyp holes. Do NOT mix into the cement mix.
3. Nori Sheets. These can be wetted and formed into shapes or rolled into tunnels.
4. Balloons. Both the round and “animal� ones work. I find that filling them with water makes them stronger. Doubling them up works well too. Make sure that you can get the balloon out afterward - i.e. leave the knot sticking out.
5. Cardboard Rolls. Can be cut to form bracing, tunnels or for pillar shapes. Be sure to use it in such a way as will allow you to remove it after a few days of kuring. Hemostats work great for grabbing a-hold and pulling it out.
6. Tissue Paper. The white stuff you find in gift bags. Disintegrates quickly during kure. You can make little (or big) “salt bags�, that you can lay into the middle of larger rocks to give more holes for ‘pods and the like. Can be used to make caves and tunnels. Just use a small bit of paper, lay some salt in it and twist or tuck the ends – a small bit of cotton thread could be used to secure the package too.
7. Pasta. Must be cooked “Al Dente� before use. Do not mix into cement, it only makes a mess and is a pain to get out of the rock as it gets really hard and crunchy when the rock dries (ever scraped 3 day old pasta off a plate?). Use to add spaces in the rock, or tunnels with spaghetti (at your own risk). Rigatoni adds a nice effect if placed just right.

Things that DO NOT work:
1. Vinegar/acid kuring. Waste of time. Lowers initial pH, but pH will then later spike.
2. Bio-degradable packing peanuts/Cheesy-poofs. I can find no way to really use these that is also safe for the tank.
3. Fish food pellets. That was really, really nasty. I don’t want to go there.
4. Uncooked Pasta. As pasta absorbs water, it expands, causing the cement to fracture and crack – cook it al dente if you really want to use it.
5. Alka-Seltzer . Doesn’t work. It dissolves to quickly.
6. Yeast. Doesn't work. pH kills the cells before they can respirate. Though during the Kure, this might be a speed option.
7. Co2. Ok – it does work, but only under high pressure. Adding into H2O will only make soda pop, and eat away at your rock.


Rock Kuring
Kuring your rock is the next hurdle. It is really, really best to leave your rock alone for at least a week before starting this step. According to Quikcrete reps, it takes 7-14 days for the rock to stop curing/hardening (though this process is actually going on for a lot, lot longer) - even though it looks and feels done. Testing standards say it takes 28 days to reach full strength and before testing for commercial applications can commence. By putting your rock in the kure bin too soon, you are wasting a lot of water and making weaker rock. Rocks during this 2-4 week period will naturally loose pH - from 12-13 at casting time down to 9-10, with NO WATER USED. I theorize that rock left longer, like 8 weeks, will only need a few weeks of kure time (and lots less water!).

Kuring is pretty straight forward. Lots of time, and lots of water changes with adequate water volume, unless you have access to a reasonably clean waterway. Powerheads help force water through the rock and help the insides kure out. Adding heat to the bucket, upwards of 90°F will speed things along.

When your bucket kured rock quits leeching out white scum on the surface of the water, and stops leaving a white residue on the bottom of the bucket, you can start checking for pH. Rock has been known to kure in as little as 2 weeks, but most bucket kured rock takes 6-8 weeks to reach safe levels – some will take up to 3 months. Be prepared to wait.

To properly test for pH, change the water – either use RO/DI or aged saltwater. Let the rock sit in this for 4 days without air or powerheads – you want still, stagnant water for this. After the 4 days, give the water a bit of a stirring and check pH with appropriate test kit. If it is in the acceptable range of 8.0 to 8.6, it is probably safe to use. If not, continue to kure.

If adding your rock to a newly established tank, you can go ahead and put it all in at once. If the tank is older, with inhabitants, you may wish to add a rock or two at a time, to allow the system to “settle� between each addition.

Expect an algae bloom.
A few people, those who either have waterways to kure in, or those with really butch systems have reported no algae blooms, but I suspect they are the exception, not the rule. If your tank blooms, don’t panic. Most tanks bloom within the maturation period anyway. Double check your system for things like NO2 and NO3, and other algae causing symptoms and correct anything that isn’t up to snuff. Take all the normal steps to curtail the growth, but then just ride it out. If the bloom is caused by the rocks, the algae will soon deplete the readily available nutrients and starve itself out. If it doesn’t go away within a few months, then you should check into other reasons for the bloom.

Well, I think that about covers my repertoire. I apologize for the length of this post, but hopefully some of you will find something of use…

I encourage the rest of you to take some time to write up your experiences and tips and share them with us – by sharing our experiences, we all learn and get better and better at making our own rock.

Good Luck, and Rock On!

[Insane Reefer]

Originally posted by kevin1234
I am going to do a batch but I just have question,
im my reef tank my ph is almost always around 7.6 can I had a little bit of diy rock into it to make the ph raise a little?

Sure, you could, and it has been discussed, but it would be a "at your own risk" kind of thing. Try starting with a small rock that tests at 9pH or so, and test.

Personally though I prefer buffering with a powdered buffer - I can go a month or so between additions - depends on water changes...

[L98-Z]

Double post

[L98-Z]

Originally posted by Insane Reefer
Silverwolf welcome to the thread, but I have to call you on this one - sorry.
Several places sell most of the organisms that are considered beneficial, and if one is really worried about evil things like hydroids (as for seahorse tanks), that would be the way to go. You can purchase bacteria, coralline, micro stars, 'pods, worms of all sorts, etc. There is really no reason at all to use real live rock, unless you want to.

Any chance you could list a place that would supply these items? I've had trouble finding them.

[Noise]

Originally posted by mdms
Its great to see flourishing Live rock farming industries in the US. In Australia there is only one supplier of Aquacultured live rock nation wide.

our strict quarantine laws do not allow the importation of corals , inverts and live rock . We also have a ban on transporting any plants and corals from the east coast into the west coast.
This means in Australia we only get to buy Australian corals. ( fish importation is allowed).

also, there is no law that allows ocean floor live rock farming. however the harvesting the real wild live rock is allowed!

if anyone attempted to farm live rock on the ocean bed, you would first be charged with littering. and retreving your live rock would put in hot water for stealing.

iv noticed on this forum some individuals who have placed live rock to be cured in water ways. Down under this also carries a fine. (unless you have a permit off course)

Over all, there is no policy in Australia in relation to aquaculture on the the open ocean floor. The restrictive quarantine laws leave the aquarist with no choice but to use wild live rock.

currently the Australian price of wild harvested live rock is $15 AUD per kilo. with only one supplier of aquacultured live rock, the idea of artificial live rock has not even been heard of over here.

This thread has been very useful for me, and i am considering options and ideas on how to promote artificial live rock down here.

what do you think i should do to help solve this problem?

I am sure you understand the purpose of these laws. While your intentions may be honest, many people would try to take advantage of laws that allow you to make your own aquacultured rock, i.e. some contractor dumping old concrete or trash and then claiming he was making reef rock (or is this just an American thing?).

I do remember hearing something about the military sinking old decomissioned ships and old tanks in the ocean to create "man made reefs." So it is ok when "they" do it. I thought this was happening off of florida.

Anyway this does nothing to answer your question.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Insane Reefer]

Less than 2 minutes to google this link for you L98-Z.
http://www.inlandaquatics.com/prod/tr_invert.html

Looking for refugium invertebrates "spaghetti worm" got this in the top 5...

Alternatively, many people swear by "live sand" or "Garf Grunge"

And then there is always Ebay, lol
http://cgi.ebay.com/LIVE-Detritivore...QQcmdZViewItem

HTH

[L98-Z]

Originally posted by Insane Reefer
Less than 2 minutes to google this link for you L98-Z.
http://www.inlandaquatics.com/prod/tr_invert.html

Looking for refugium invertebrates "spaghetti worm" got this in the top 5...

Alternatively, many people swear by "live sand" or "Garf Grunge"

And then there is always Ebay, lol
http://cgi.ebay.com/LIVE-Detritivore...QQcmdZViewItem

HTH

I suppose I was simply searching for the wrong thing. Thanks. A bit more expensive than I had imagined.

[drauka99]

Originally posted by Noise

I do remember hearing something about the military sinking old decomissioned ships and old tanks in the ocean to create "man made reefs." So it is ok when "they" do it. I thought this was happening off of florida.

As far as the sinking of the ship for a "man made reef" they do it quite regularly throught the world. I live really close to where they sand the aircraft carrier off of Pensacola, Fl.

They actually remove almost everything from the ship before sinking and all that is left is a husk. I believe a diver friend of mine said that once they started alowing divers to explore it several fish communities had already developed using the old ship for saftey from predators.

Just a heads up.