GFO (PhosBan) - Just How Good Is It?

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by jadeguppy
Has anyone tried running both reactors off one pump? ex: tie the first reactor's return line to the second reactor's intake?

they both can be run fine off a maxijet1200 if you use the control valves that come with the reactors. I have found that phosban needs alot less water pressure or flow then the carbon can handle

[jadeguppy]

What type of phos and carbon have you tried? I'm currently using rox 8.0 carbon and granular (pellet) GFO from bulkreefsupply.com

I wonder if this will make a difference?

[Antdizzle]

whats GFO ?

[miwoodar]

Granular Ferric Oxide

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php

[chucksta1]

If the problem is over fluidization of the media, GFO is available in pellet form. It's not quite as effective as regular GFO, but it will never turn to dust, require constant tweaking.... etc.. Also, you can put more in the container.. Now, if they could just make it change colour when it was saturated..

[Antdizzle]

I JUST ADDED pura phoslock to mine on sunday my levels were at .74 !... how soon do you guys think I should change the media ?
I put the whole container in my reactor. 454 grams... been running non stop since Sunday.

[chucksta1]

If the levels doesn't drop to close to zero.. it's saturated,, At the beginning of this thread, there's a breakdown of how much phosphate was pulled out of how much water by how much media.. Check that out and do the math??

The trouble with the media is that, except by testing, theew is no way to know when it's saturated. The only thing you could do is to always run the same ammount of media and then slowly extend the change out time until phosphates are just starting to rise. But that won't work if there's anything growing in the tank that uses phosphate for fuel, this forum is full of posts from people who showed zero pjosphated because they were being bound up in algae, etc..

[hndakd]

how much should i be using for ~115 gallons. I dont have any way to measure grams reliably i use about 4 tablespoons right now. I have noticed a reduction in algae. I also grow cheato.

[jdieck]

That will require about 300 grams of regular or pellet that is around 15 to 20 leveled tablespoons. If using Phosar HC you will need one third of that or 5 to 7 leveled tablespoons.
Total amount is not very critical if you use less will just saturate faster meaning replacing more often.
BTW flow requirements are basically the same for all regular media pelletized or not although pelletized will allow for a more uniform flow throughout the media bed. If using the HC the flow can be higher as the media is heavier and does not tend to crumble.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by hndakd
how much should i be using for ~115 gallons. I dont have any way to measure grams reliably i use about 4 tablespoons right now. I have noticed a reduction in algae. I also grow cheato.

Is that your display tank--or the total water column including sump, refugiums ect---you have to include the whole water column in your calculations

[Antdizzle]

My problem is I have not good way of testing them. The LFS that does the correct testing is in another city and hard for me to get to on a reg basis.
I tried a friends red sea po4 test kit. And according to the color my phosphates are at .5.
Don't know how god or accurate the test kit is.

[hndakd]

Originally posted by jdieck
That will require about 300 grams of regular or pellet that is around 15 to 20 leveled tablespoons. If using Phosar HC you will need one third of that or 5 to 7 leveled tablespoons.
Total amount is not very critical if you use less will just saturate faster meaning replacing more often.
BTW flow requirements are basically the same for all regular media pelletized or not although pelletized will allow for a more uniform flow throughout the media bed. If using the HC the flow can be higher as the media is heavier and does not tend to crumble.

wow i have been using alot less than i need. I test for phosphates and it always reads 0, so im assuming that the algae that is growing is using up what is there. I have the little green stuff that grows on the glass, I have noticed that there are very very small patches of GHA in certain areas but It doesnt seem to be spreading. I think after all the algae woes i have had im finally getting to the leeching stage.

Is that your display tank--or the total water column including sump, refugiums ect---you have to include the whole water column in your calculations

thats everything, skimmer reactors, sump/fuge

on a little side note phosban says that it also removes silicates... is there a test for that?

[jdieck]

Originally posted by Antdizzle
My problem is I have not good way of testing them. The LFS that does the correct testing is in another city and hard for me to get to on a reg basis.
I tried a friends red sea po4 test kit. And according to the color my phosphates are at .5.
Don't know how god or accurate the test kit is.

As most kits it is generally a yes/no kind of test. If you detect any, then is higher than it should be regardless of the real level.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by hndakd
on a little side note phosban says that it also removes silicates... is there a test for that?

Yes there is, I would recommend the Hach if you like to buy one but having said that I would not worry much about it. Silicates may become a problem if you have blooms of diatom algae but it is unusual as silicates are needed by snails and sponges.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by Antdizzle
My problem is I have not good way of testing them. The LFS that does the correct testing is in another city and hard for me to get to on a reg basis.
I tried a friends red sea po4 test kit. And according to the color my phosphates are at .5.
Don't know how god or accurate the test kit is.

there is a very good way for testing---if you don't have alage then you don't have phosphates

[hndakd]

Originally posted by jdieck
Yes there is, I would recommend the Hach if you like to buy one but having said that I would not worry much about it. Silicates may become a problem if you have blooms of diatom algae but it is unusual as silicates are needed by snails and sponges.

thanks, that does make sense because I do have a decent amount of bright green sponges hanging around. On the other hand i do have little tufts of HA and I have to scrape my glass about every 4 days. My TDS at the tap reads 230 and outta my RODI reads 8. Then the container for water reads 83. I assume the 83 is because the container might not be sparkling clean or dust settles in it.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by hndakd
thanks, that does make sense because I do have a decent amount of bright green sponges hanging around. On the other hand i do have little tufts of HA and I have to scrape my glass about every 4 days. My TDS at the tap reads 230 and outta my RODI reads 8. Then the container for water reads 83. I assume the 83 is because the container might not be sparkling clean or dust settles in it.

If the container is covered, than it might be the container itself that could be leaching something so check for compatibility of material.
Also if you are using DI cartridge 8 ppm might be too high and probably time to replace the DI as it gets exhausted it starts releasing what it absorbed.
BTW diatoms is the brown film you get on the glass (not green) so if it is green then chances are the issue are nutrients (Nitrate) and not Silicates.

[Don-Coraleone]

very interesting. its good to know.

[noblerot]

Could someone explain the difference between the white substance that some brands such as SeaChem sell as phosphate remover and the brown colored GFO that seems to be the standard.

thanks

[matt & pam]

Seachem is a matrix polymer, not just a plain iron oxide. Not sure if seachem uses an iron base, aluminum or other to bind phosphate.

[noblerot]

Is there any distinct difference in performance or otherwise in the polymer verses the plain iron oxide?

[jdieck]

Seachem is Activated Alumina which adsorbs silicates and phosphates and could be as efficient as GFO and is a lot cheaper, the issue with it is that it leaches Aluminum that has shown to affect some corals specifically some softies.
See this link for more details on it:
Aluminum and aluminum-based phosphate binders
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...y2003/chem.htm

Regarding GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide Hydroxide) there are also differences.
The typical granular irregular form and pellets (Sold industrially under the name of Bayoxide 33 or 33P) has a different crystal form that that of say Rowaphos that has to be maintained wet and the newer Phosar HC.
The regular and pellet forms have similar adsorption capacity although the pellets allow for a more uniform flow thus reducing clumping and channeling, Rowa adsorption is higher and a lot faster which in some cases has caused bleaching due to the fast reduction of phosphate if not starting with a small amount and increasing it over time so as to reduce the rate of reduction of phosphate. Rowa has good performance but is more expensive than the regular ones and also is a bit more difficult to rinse.
The latest Phosar HC has become my favorite. Although more expensive than the regulars, it easier to rinse, does not break so easily and because is heavier more flow can be passed trough without concerns for small particles being carried over.
Although advertised as adsorbing three times as much I have tested it to adsorb four to five times as more so a lot less quantity can be used.
I have seen some new forms of media also based on iron oxides that is encapsulated and said to be regenerable but I have not tried it yet as it is not readily available.

Finally, if the level of Phosphate is really high and because the effects of Seachem's Phosgard is not permanent but disappear as soon as you stop using it I would use the cheaper Phosgard for the initial two to three weeks and then switch to a GFO based media, this will save some $$.

BTW Seachems polymer adsorber is more like a DI resin for salt water and is called Purigen used mainly to remove refractory organics and nitrogenous compounds, it can be regenerated with common bleach and changes in color as an indicator of exhaustion.

[noblerot]

Great info jdieck! Thanks!

[jdieck]

Originally posted by noblerot
Great info jdieck! Thanks!

Enjoy!

[benzreef]

very good thread here!