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Old 05/14/2009, 08:57 PM   #301
redfishsc
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Highland,

You'll have to pardon me for being lazy and burned out from final exams and term papers.


What seems to be the consensus? Does this stuff have any predictable effect on hair algae and/or cyano?

I am having an outbreak of both in my 10g tank, even though it went for 6 months with NONE and it never once showed any nutrients (nitrate/phosphate). I have ceased dosing any form of nitrogen and only feed the fish enough to keep them alive. Now I am doing a 5 day blackout, which does seem to be helping.


I am hoping that I can kill off enough of this stuff (before it reaches a plague level) with the blackout so that it will be outcompeted by the rest of the photosynthetics in the tank when the lights come back on.


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Old 05/15/2009, 05:44 AM   #302
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redfishsc,

Hopefully you Aced your exams and papers.

This thread is getting a bit long and most hobbyists just want the facts.

From what has been posted in this thread as well as a few others on RC and on other sites, AlgaeFix works for most algae and some of the cyanobacteria. The red cyano seems to be the toughest to eradicate though. There have been a few hobbyists that have complained about possible loss of shrimp, damage to corals & for example the one above, the segmented worms turn a white color. AlgaeFix seems to fit the same profile of most pesticides used, where care should be taken in its application & the label should be followed (care should be taken to make sure the proper amount is added for the actual volume of water in the tank).

Water parameters should be maintained while dosing AlgaeFix. Particularly phosphate and nitrate. Phosphate should be maintained less than 0.03 and nitrate less than 0.2. Physical removal of the pest is very important. The less present in your aquarium the easier it will be for AlgaeFix to do its job. Hand removal and siphoning = physical removal along with good skimming practices (skim on the wet side).

The active ingredient in AlgaeFix is used in many other applications at higher doses to control all microbial life (including algae, fungus, bacteria, cyanobacteria). It is a broad spectrum pesticide and hence care needs to be taken in its application. The manufacturer has a label from EPA for the use in reef systems. It is the only one I am aware of at this time that has this label. Fairly extensive testing is required by EPA to get this label, however it is impossible for the manufacturer to test AlgaeFix on all the life in the ocean. AlgaeFix will not effect the spore stages of the pests in our reef system. Hence, the manufacturer's recommended weekly dosing after visible control of a pest is attained. AlgaeFix will brake down within 24 hrs (probably much less than 24 hrs). The exact mode of action that AlgaeFix has on the pests has not been disclosed by the manufacturer and I have tried several times to get additional information on their product & have yet to succeed.

Most hobbyists find that control of their pest becomes visibly apparent at around the 4th or 5th dose. At this point, they claim that the algae type pests becomes much easier to remove from the rock or substrate. At this point, is where I recommend that they hobbyist concentrate on removing as much as possible if they have not been able to do this. If the hobbyist is overwhelmed with their pest, perhaps concentrating on one section of at a time will be more productive.

I have noticed after prolonged dosing at the three date rate, AlgaeFix will kill macroalgae (in my case chaeto). This was after at least one month of dosing at the every three day rate. Up until this point my chaeto did fine. This fact may be used to try and control macroalgae type pests. I have not experienced any other losses of coral since I started dosing AlgaeFix at the every 3 day rate and I have been doing this since the beginning of March. This is something I do not recommend for most hobbyists. I would only dose the AlgaeFix long enough to get rid of your pest and then cut back to the weekly dose for a while. I am still playing with the AlgaeFix at this point with my green cyanobacteria pest. Results are good, but I have not removed the pest like I should have. In the areas I removed the pest, it is gone.


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Old 05/15/2009, 06:00 AM   #303
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Thanks for the summary Highland. Are you still running carbon and GFO while dosing?


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Old 05/15/2009, 06:38 AM   #304
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emoore,

I have not needed to run GFO. I am currently running GAC.

I have read where many hobbyists have continued running GFO, GAC, skimming and dosing carbon sources while using AlgaeFix without apparent negative effects in controlling their pests. Therefore, I don't see the need to discontinue using these things until I hear of such problems.


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Old 05/15/2009, 08:39 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally posted by emoore
Thanks for the summary Highland. Are you still running carbon and GFO while dosing?
I ran GAC, GFO, skimmer, denitrifier, no water changes along with alagaefix and saw no ill effects, after the last dose, (i did 9 doses BTW), i saw that i did lose a little bit of color on corals so in a period of a week i changed 10 gallons of water every 2 days, everything is coming back to normal, this water change is just a precaution of removing waterever chemical we put in to the water (if there is any), after all this i will say that i am very happy with the results and would hesitate to recommend it to anyone, good luck

Sana


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Old 05/15/2009, 09:37 AM   #306
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So far I have completed 3 doses. I have noticed a massive increase in detritus in the water column. I think it is slowly killing off algae.

The algae I have is barely noticeable because it is paper thin and looks like it is painted onto the rockwork. It does not stick up at all. So far it is hard to tell how much is gone.


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Old 05/16/2009, 07:43 AM   #307
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Thanks for the update Highland.

This seems like a nuclear option.

Are some folks doing a lights-out at the same time they are using the algae fix (in 2-4 day intervals obviously)?


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Old 05/17/2009, 06:39 AM   #308
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redfishsc,

Good point regarding when to use AlgaeFix. Although I would not place it in the nuclear realm , I would recommend that hobbyists implement a proper pest control program to either control or eliminate their pest before using AlgaeFix. AlgaeFix is not a cure-all for bad maintenance practices. Since my back operation, proper maintenance in my 110 g. tall has become very painful. I am not able to properly clean it the way it should be. I have tried using AlgaeFix to get around this problem and it does not work. One still needs to remove as much of the algae to gain proper control.

Following the suggestions in Randy's articles listed below to lower the nitrate & phosphate to proper levels is a very important part of a pest control program along with:

1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer.
2) Mechanical removal by hand and siphoning of the pest.
3) Running GAC properly.
4) Proper lighting (The higher wavelengths, ie. 20,000 K seem to be less conducive to algae type pests).
5) Proper circulation of the water.
6) Choosing a proper fish (bio-load) for system size (This may be the #2 offender).
7) Proper feeding habits (This may be the hobbyists' #1 offender)
8) I am a proponent of proper water changes and feel they are important in any algae type pest control program.
9) Maintain the proper water parameters to promote health of the wanted occupants. Salinity, alk., calcium, magnesium, temp., ammonia, phosphate and nitrate are all important and should be monitored.
10) Using RODI water.
11) When first starting a reef system, I am a proponent of not using live sand or live rock. Use extreme caution when introducing your stock into the system to avoid these type of pests. This is where a quarantine tank can pay for itself over and over again.

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once the hobbyist has implemented all the above and is at Witt's-end as to how to control their pest, then using AlgaeFix may be the next appropriate measure to initiate. I hate to see the number of hobbyists who drop out of the realm of salt water aquariums due to these algae type pests.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lights-out measures for controlling these type of pests has not been discussed in this thread much. If the AlgaeFix doesn't gain control when used following the normal labeled directions, perhaps lights-out measures would be a good next step to try, particularly if fighting dinoflagellates or cyanobacteria type pests.


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Old 05/17/2009, 11:09 AM   #309
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My system is a 210g with a 75g sump, the flow through the display is 7000 gph. Nitrates and Phosphate tested 0, with Salifert kits.
I have had a problem with HA in the past that was so bad that I removed some of the rocks for seeding and all of the corals. I then bleached the whole system. During the time with HA I tried Chem-Marin Stop Hair Algae, raised the magnesium to 1800, scrubbed and removed what I could, and different herbivores. Nothing worked. And yes, Nitrate and Phosphate were 0. Also during this time I came across this thread but was so discouraged that I nuked before trying Algeafix.

About 6 months ago I started the system back up and have had great coral growth but am now noticing a few areas of that dark green HA. So yesterday I dosed.

This is not cyano or dinoflagellate. I see no bubbles in the algae. It starts as little tufts of material that spread. If let go long enough they grow into long flowing hair algae.

The pic below shows one of the two problem areas. The green below the anemone is the algae.




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Old 05/17/2009, 03:19 PM   #310
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dngspot,

After what you have gone through, I would jump on this pest using AlgaeFix also.

Unfortunately, you are like many hobbyists who have exhausted every means they can come across to help eradicate their particular pest. Once a hobbyist is in this position it is very frustrating. I can understand how many will simply give up after pumping hours and dollars into their dream reef system. Thankfully you have not chosen to do this.

I am curious about a few questions:

1) What kind of rock and sand did you first use when you started your system?

2) Was your system components bought used?

3) How do you think you acquired this pest?

4) I am curious about the procedure you used to try to kill the pest with bleach? What concentration of bleach did you use? How many times did you soak your rock in bleach? Was there any visible signs of organic matter on the rock after you finished bleaching it? Did you bleach the sand or did you simply use it as is after re-doing your tank? Did any of the corals you have in the infested tank, show signs of infestation on them before you introduced them into the new clean system?


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Old 05/17/2009, 03:56 PM   #311
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I have a 60 gal frag tank sharing a common sump with my 220 display and a 16 gal refugium. Tank parameters are good, no algae issues in the display or the refugium. The system is skimmed with a Reeflo Orca 250 and I run GFO and GAC 24/7. I do weekly 10% water changes with RO/DI at 0 TDS. I have hair algae growing on the frag plugs and the egg crate. I have scrubed, used a razor blade, and used a brush to scrub the holes in the eggcrate. After reading this thread, I isolated the water supply to the frag tank and added the first dose of Algaefix yesterday. I did not think it necessary to dose the rest of the system. The frag plugs are ceramic so I would not think they would contain any phosphate.

The problem tank:


Annoying Hair Algae:





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Old 05/17/2009, 04:19 PM   #312
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kingsland,

I am not an expert by any means in identifying these type of pests. My experience continues to grow daily.

The way the bubbles accumulate at the very top of this pest as it grows upward reminds me of the dinoflagellates behavior.

We are definitely interested in the results you attain from using AlgaeFix on this pest, particulary in a frag tank with the wattage you have over it.

Are you running 10,000 K bulbs on this frag tank?


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Old 05/17/2009, 04:28 PM   #313
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I have to add, I am jealous of your frag tank. It looks beautiful.

Thanks for the great photos. They help tremendously in IDing your pest's catagory.


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Old 05/17/2009, 05:06 PM   #314
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They are 12k Reeflux. The only visible pest is the hair algae. The bubbles are caused by the canister filter I hooked to frag tank to help circulate and filter the water. I wasn't happy with the bubbles nor the lack of surface skimming. I have replaced the canister filter with a low tech salt buket and filter socks placed inside the sump. I am so used to the ATO, its going to be a bit of a pain to top off while the tank is being treated.

Do you see any reason not to run GAC during this process?


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Old 05/17/2009, 05:12 PM   #315
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With what other hobbyists have stated, I don't see any reason to discontinue running GAC.

I would hope you will see control taking effect by the 5th dose.


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Old 05/17/2009, 07:00 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally posted by HighlandReefer
dngspot,

After what you have gone through, I would jump on this pest using AlgaeFix also.

Unfortunately, you are like many hobbyists who have exhausted every means they can come across to help eradicate their particular pest. Once a hobbyist is in this position it is very frustrating. I can understand how many will simply give up after pumping hours and dollars into their dream reef system. Thankfully you have not chosen to do this.

I am curious about a few questions:

1) What kind of rock and sand did you first use when you started your system?

2) Was your system components bought used?


4) I am curious about the procedure you used to try to kill the pest with bleach? What concentration of bleach did you use? How many times did you soak your rock in bleach? Was there any visible signs of organic matter on the rock after you finished bleaching it? Did you bleach the sand or did you simply use it as is after re-doing your tank? Did any of the corals you have in the infested tank, show signs of infestation on them before you introduced them into the new clean system?

1) What kind of rock and sand did you first use when you started your system?

Most of the rock is DIY rock, 300 lbs of concrete rock and 40 lbs of large Fiji pieces. The algae does not care what type of rock it is, it started on Fiji.

2) Was your system components bought used?

All of the items in the system were bought new.

3) How do you think you acquired this pest?

It could have been anything over a period of 4 years. I really do not have any idea. I can tell you it started on one of my rocks, a spot about the size of a pencil eraser.


4) I am curious about the procedure you used to try to kill the pest with bleach? What concentration of bleach did you use? How many times did you soak your rock in bleach? Was there any visible signs of organic matter on the rock after you finished bleaching it? Did you bleach the sand or did you simply use it as is after re-doing your tank? Did any of the corals you have in the infested tank, show signs of infestation on them before you introduced them into the new clean system?

Using the bleach was as simple as this. Remove all that you want to keep. With the pumps running add 1 gallon of bleach, non scented. Before the gallon was empty the HA was white. The rock and sand was removed from the tank. The rock put out to dry for a week. It then was put in a container and soaked in fresh water for a week. I then removed it and pressure washed it off. It went back into the container, water and chlorine remover was added. The rock stayed this way for another week. Then it was placed back in the tank with new Southdown sand.
I would like to add that at no time did the sand have any HA on it.
The corals were put in my frag tanks and showed no signs of HA before they were put back into the display system.


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Old 05/18/2009, 05:01 AM   #317
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dngspot,

Thanks for providing all the information. Keep us posted on your results, particularly if there are any problems with the selection of coral you have in this frag tank.


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Old 05/18/2009, 06:56 AM   #318
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I am up to my 4th dose now. So far I have concrete results. The effort has been two-fold as I have cut back feedings a great deal as well as dosing algaefix. Contributing everything to algaefix would be misleading. I have also increased the size and number of water changes.

I have a large shelf rock on my tank where dictyota was plastered on every small ridge. You could not really notice the algae....only that the rock was dark brownish.

Now I can see white porous exposed parts of this rock. I believe the algae is slowly flaking off. There has been a ton of particles in my water column. I suspect this is the dying algae.

The bubble algae is also beginning to break down. I am hoping for the best.

Would it be wise to run some GFO to deliver the knock out punch at some point?


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Old 05/18/2009, 11:38 AM   #319
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I have scaled back Algaefix dosing because I have noticed 2 of my caps fading. I will not attribute this to anything other than my eagerness to kill off algae. I did not follow the manufacturers recommendations and dosed every other day, and on occasion every day. On the up side, I have noticed a decrease in algae. Lets see what the future brings.


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Old 05/18/2009, 01:29 PM   #320
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Has anyone found this stuff in the LFS?
or is it only available online?


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Old 05/18/2009, 02:03 PM   #321
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Mine came from Petsmart


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Old 05/18/2009, 02:43 PM   #322
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Got mine at the LFS


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Old 05/18/2009, 03:15 PM   #323
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DFS has it on sale:

https://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...=37735&catid=3

If you plug in coupon code 11318418, you get an extra $5 off your order.


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Old 05/18/2009, 05:03 PM   #324
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It also works very well on that brown wafer algae you get with tonga stuff... noting eats it and it can encrust over anything.... a steady dosing per instructions got rid of it in my system.


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Old 05/19/2009, 05:42 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally posted by Logzor
I am up to my 4th dose now. So far I have concrete results. The effort has been two-fold as I have cut back feedings a great deal as well as dosing AlgaeFix. Contributing everything to AlgaeFix would be misleading. I have also increased the size and number of water changes.

I have a large shelf rock on my tank where dictyota was plastered on every small ridge. You could not really notice the algae....only that the rock was dark brownish.

Now I can see white porous exposed parts of this rock. I believe the algae is slowly flaking off. There has been a ton of particles in my water column. I suspect this is the dying algae.

The bubble algae is also beginning to break down. I am hoping for the best.

Would it be wise to run some GFO to deliver the knock out punch at some point?

To run or not to run GFO is a good question. Randy has stated that the AlgaeFix will attach to GFO, which could possibly reduce its effectiveness. Many hobbyists have run GFO while using AlgaeFix and achieved control. Reducing phosphates to very low levels does help eradicate algae. I gave you the facts as I know them and will let you decide.

This is the first time that I have heard about a hobbyists using AlgaeFix on bubble algae, so there is quite a bit of interest to see if you achieve control of it using AlgaeFix.


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