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01/17/2006, 03:30 PM | #1 |
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How much vinegar to lower pH in tank
Hello Randy. I've got a 7 bowfront nano in which I've recently begun dripping limewater on a regular basis, as my calcium and alkalinity needed adjustment (zone 2, per your article). I mix 3 level tsp. of Mrs. Wages with 35 ml. distilled white vinegar to each gallon, and I drip roughly 6 ounces per day to the tank.
My pH, consequently, has risen to an undesirable level, and my Salifert kit measures 8.6. Can I add a small amount of the vingar directly to the tank? If so are there guidelines or a formula I can go by in order to lower pH X number of points per Y number of gallons by adding Z amount of vinegar? If vinegar straight to the tank is not advisable, do you have any other reccommendations as for keeping pH in check when dripping kalk? As always, thanks! |
01/17/2006, 04:19 PM | #2 |
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Yes, you can add it directly, or in the limewater. I discuss how and how much in this article:
High pH: Causes and Cures http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm More aeration and using soda water are other good options.
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01/17/2006, 06:55 PM | #3 | |
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01/18/2006, 06:18 AM | #4 |
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Yes, if you believe that it is a long term concern (which it often is with limewater), adding it into the limewater is a fine way to go.
Adding 45mL still had my kalk solution with a ph well above 12. Yes, that should be the case. Vinegar has much of its pH lowering effect after it enters the tank and is decomposed to CO2 by bacteria.
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01/18/2006, 11:33 AM | #5 |
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Yes, I gathered from the article that as the bacteria metabolize the acetate, CO2 is produced. Does the 45 mL./gal. that you practice, Randy, seem to produce desirable end results as far as keeping pH in an acceptable level? And, if this is the case, is Twisted Tiger's technique of adding 125 mL to the mix going to send the tank into overdrive, similar to adding sugar or vodka to a tank?
Further, have you ever tested any sort of radical ideas, such as mixing calcium oxide or hydroxide into soda water? Maybe you, as a chemist, already know whether this will work or not, or what the results might be. But such things come to mind when I read about how some of these substances react with and counter each other. |
01/18/2006, 11:38 AM | #6 |
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Does the 45 mL./gal. that you practice, Randy, seem to produce desirable end results as far as keeping pH in an acceptable level?
I don't add vinegar to my limewater, but that amount is intended to about balance the acid produced with the base added in the limewater, at least according to Craig Bingman's old calculations, and many people find it to work fine: http://web.archive.org/web/200304181...io/default.asp Adding soda water to lime will result in precipitation of calcium carbonate.
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01/18/2006, 11:45 AM | #7 |
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Thank you!
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01/18/2006, 11:46 AM | #8 |
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You're welcome.
Good luck.
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01/18/2006, 11:58 AM | #9 | |
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01/18/2006, 12:00 PM | #10 |
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FWIW, adding a lot of vinegar will drive bacteria, just as vodka and sugar can. Whether that is good or bad depends on the aquarist and the tank.
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01/18/2006, 12:13 PM | #11 |
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I can see how this could be benefial or not to a system. I'm not likely to add that much viegar, as I'm working with a very small environment to begin with, and subtle changes can be big ones in this tank. Out of curiosity, though,Twisted, have you measured the pH of your mix before dripping it? If so, what kind of numbers are you getting. It seems to me that if you're bring the pH way down, it would not be so critical as to how slow the mixture is added.
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01/18/2006, 12:18 PM | #12 |
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It is not normal to add so much vinegar that the pH is below 12. That implies an excessive dose of vinegar, IMO, and is akin to dosing calcium acetate. That can actually drive down pH, and also uses larger amounts of O2.
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01/18/2006, 12:28 PM | #13 | ||
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01/18/2006, 12:38 PM | #14 |
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[B]It seems to me that if you're bring the pH way down, it would not be so critical as to how slow the mixture is added. [?B[
It can be in the sense of O2 depletion, which might happen if acetate is added too fast in large amounts, but if spread out is less of a concern as O2 can come back in from the air.
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