Want to Start a Marine Aquarium?: A Step by Step Guide

[JohnL]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...83#post9171483

Table of Contents From the Beginning of this Thread
Tanks
Stands
and Canopies
Substrates
Lighting
Systems
Filtration
Methods
Water
Parameters
Water
Flow
Live
Rock and Aquascaping
Quarantine
Tanks
Hospital
Tanks
Cleanup
Crews

[Travis L. Stevens]

I would search around the Vendor experience forum and ask around. It would be better to get many opinions on this than just my own. FWIW, I don't have any experience with Pan World, but I hear that they are decent.

[first-chevalier]

Blew my tank up last night after the flow test (which didn't go well). My hood is too tight. I need to sand it down so it's not so snugg. I'll have to buy a new tank today and drill it again. OH well.

On the flow test, the mag model 3 with 350gph rating just lost to much power going from the fuge to the DT. It was barely a trickle when it got up there. I have a few things to try, but I'm debating supplementing the flow with a little micro power head I have. It's free and keeps me from speding about $70 ot $80 bucks.

[Travis L. Stevens]

You blew out your tank? What happened?

[first-chevalier]

Okay, perhaps a slight misnomer. The right side cracked as I was putting the hood on. Not really blew up. Sorry. On the up side all panes of this particular perfecto aquarium are in fact drillable

[Travis L. Stevens]

Was the pane that cracked one that was drilled or undrilled?

[JerseyWendy]

Travis,

I wanted to tell you that I got SO lucky today. Through these awesome boards I found the nicest person who was selling his 75 gallon reef-ready All-Glass tank. Along with it I got a 30 AGA which I'll transform into a sump w/refugium.

Wow - I'm off to my start. Yippee!!! Is it normal to get THIS excited over the beginning of my future salt-water adventure?

Guess what's next? Building the stand and the canopy.

Lots of happy dancing going on right here.

---
Wendy
---

[Travis L. Stevens]

Wendy, don't get pooped out dancing now. There will be more excitement over even more trivial things later. I remember how stoked I was just to see a copepod in my tank. There's nothing more exciting than yelling out "I GOT WORMS!" sporatically in excitement after spying something in your tank to your significant who is obviously not paying attention. The night on the couch that you're in quarintine is well worth it

[JerseyWendy]

ROFLOL

You must have met my significant other.

I called him as soon as I got home and told him what an awesome deal I got. He couldn't really say much because he's clueless as to how much I would have paid for just those 2 tanks had I bought them brand spanking new. It's me alone (so far) who's been doing the reading and researching almost 24/7. Yep, believe it or not, when I honestly didn't comprehend how a sump/refugium worked less than a week ago, how they were put together with the display tank, I lost sleep over it. The word "bulkhead" meant nothing to me other than I thought it was related to a ship.

My dear husband will have to put the workbench together for me though sooner or later when I start my cutting, pre-drilling, framing, etc.

Travis, I know you've been told many times, but I'll say it again.

YOU ARE AWESOME. Thanks for all the help.

---
Wendy
---

[first-chevalier]

Travis,
the pane that cracked was teh right side. The hood is/was too tight and when I pushed it on, like I've done a bunch of times before, it cracked this time.

I've replaced it with an AGA my Fish Guy asures me can be drilled cause he just did the other one from teh empty display 'over there'. I'll let you know, but I have to sand down/rasp down the inside of the hood.

Oh, and I think I've fixed my flow problem. I'm gonna put a micro jet in teh tank rated at 127gph or 117 gph. I'll have pleanty of movement in the tank, just low flow from fuge to DT and back.

[joshuasamuels]

Be careful drilling those AGA. The sides should be ok, but the bottom usually tempered, even in the ones already drilled.

Just my $0.02

[Travis L. Stevens]

Joshua
Yes, FWIW, I don't drill any bottoms unless I'm prepared to replace it. It's just safer that way.

First-Chevalier
That really bites. You've been through a lot of trouble already for a start. Don't let this dampen your spirits though.

Wendy
Well your hubby will either do one of two things. He'll either leave the fish tank alone forever (I doubt it), or he will find something that will spark his interest and he will be hooked forever. For my wife, it was seahorses, sexy shrimp, and zoanthids. But it might not be livestock that your hubby will be interested in. If he's an electrician, he might enjoy putting a seperate circuit in the house for the tank or wiring in the lights. If he's a plumber, he might like plumbing the tank. If he loves to work with wood, get him to build you a stand and canopy. There is bound to get him involved somehow. YGPM

[first-chevalier]

Thanks Travis, yeah it's been hard so far but I keep making my pillgrimage to the LFS that has the best selection and it keeps my hopes up.

For example (and a question) I wandered in last night and they were unloading their shipment as I walked in. He had a lot of foam boxes adn was pulling bags out. The bags with corals went right into his display tables but some others went into a sink.

I thought you were supposed to drip acclimatize everything before adding it to your main DT. Is that not the case? He did say they're flight was delayed so is it possible he's skipping a step due to the delay?

I ask becuase my best friend has a saying, 'we don't buy fish TODAY'. Meaning if you see one you like, check on it in a week. If it's a good fish to own it should be fine then. If it isn't you'll either see it acting weird or it will be gone.

This Fish Guy has had a lot of stock move. By that I mean I don't usually see the same fish in his store on two visits even when those visits are only seperated by a few days. Is this bad? All his tanks are REALLY clean all the time and he has a great selection and been really helpful with my questions. Thanks for your time.

[first-chevalier]

Oh, on my tank. I'm not planning on drilling the bottom, the upper left hadn corner in the back. The Fish Guy did say he thought I shouldn't use a diamond hole saw on a 10g due to the thin glass. He also said he didn't advise using my dremel at 30k rpm, which is the highest setting. AND he said using really cold water might cause the pane to crack due to the high heat from the 30k rpm dremel. This is the setup I successfully drilled the perfecto with and was going to repeat it with the AGA. I was thinking of using the hole saw from Harbor Freight.

Thoughts?........

[Travis L. Stevens]

I thought you were supposed to drip acclimatize everything before adding it to your main DT. Is that not the case?

For the overall health of the animal, yes. Careful acclimation should be recognized by all. From the collector to the wholesaler to the retailer to the consumer.

He did say they're flight was delayed so is it possible he's skipping a step due to the delay?

Many retailers feel that this is the case, and it really is a thin red line. On one hand, the coral is already stressed and a long acclimation may push it over the edge. On the other hand, just tossing it in the tank may do the same thing. I still prefer that the retailer be very careful with his products no matter what the case may be. Often, retailers get a refund or discount on DOA (Dead on Arrival) items, thus if they lose something to acclimation because of a delayed order, they can mark it off. It isn't the right thing to do from a business perspective. It is simply lying. But the improper handling from the retailer rolls bad health of stock onto the consumer.

I ask becuase my best friend has a saying, 'we don't buy fish TODAY'. Meaning if you see one you like, check on it in a week. If it's a good fish to own it should be fine then. If it isn't you'll either see it acting weird or it will be gone.

Yes. This is something that is very good. If you see something that you like, keep an eye on it. Ask the salesman to feed the animal to see if it is eating or reacting appropriately. If you are good friends with the shopkeep, ask if they will put a temporary hold on the animal. If they know you are asking for a hold for observation, they usually will do that. If you are asking for a hold because of funds, they usually won't.

This Fish Guy has had a lot of stock move. By that I mean I don't usually see the same fish in his store on two visits even when those visits are only seperated by a few days. Is this bad?

It's not necessarily bad for the retailer, but bad habits on the consumer. Just like noted above, you should watch your stock before you take it home and add it to your QT. Obviously some of his consumers are not watching the stock long, and are probably not even QTing.

All his tanks are REALLY clean all the time and he has a great selection and been really helpful with my questions. Thanks for your time.

That's great that the guy is able to upkeep the tanks. But honestly, I would rather buy from someone who has so much algae on the glass that you can barely see in, but they keep extremely healthy stock then someone who keeps an emaculate store that might have questionable husbandry practices. I understand that time is limited, but an honest hobbyist will take the time. I'm not saying that this guy is a bad retailer or a good one, nor am I saying he's a bad aquarist or a good one. He just might be a middle of the road kind of guy. There might be areas for improvement, and other areas that are top notch.

Oh, on my tank. I'm not planning on drilling the bottom, the upper left hadn corner in the back. The Fish Guy did say he thought I shouldn't use a diamond hole saw on a 10g due to the thin glass.

Glass is glass and it doesn't matter about the thickness. You will need a diamond bit. The thickness on the other hand would mean how delicate you would have to be. You can rough house .5" Glass all day long compared to something like 1/8".

He also said he didn't advise using my dremel at 30k rpm, which is the highest setting.

I wouldn't use the highest setting, but I would use something in the middle. Fast enough to chip away at the glass but slow enough that the dust gets washed off.

AND he said using really cold water might cause the pane to crack due to the high heat from the 30k rpm dremel.

This doesn't matter because the heat source is a single point and not an entire pane. Constant flow over the bit will keep any of this from happening.

This is the setup I successfully drilled the perfecto with and was going to repeat it with the AGA. I was thinking of using the hole saw from Harbor Freight.

Did you get it in already?

[first-chevalier]

I haven't gone by Harbor Frieght to see if they have them in stock or anything. I have a store right by my house. Considering that I still have to stain the stand and hood as well as paint the back of the tank I'm not in any hurry to drill again. I'm gonna fix my flow problem with the little micro jet I have and since I have a propensity for breaking tanks I'm not going to drill until all I have left to do is drill and paint the tank. I still have to add my baffles to the refugium. But I'll do that tonight when I get the masking tape.

[hedgelj]

In tanks where you are going to do additional water flow, more then just the overflow and return I have a question. Where do you put the additional powerheads and pumps that you'd then attach to either times or a wave timer to attempt to recreate some of the chaotic currents found in a reef during the different times of the day as well as from waves moving over the shallower sections?

I just see it as a major plumbing headache to run them from the sump to not overflow your tank nor drain your sump. I haven't found any threads here in the new to the hobby section, is there a better section with this info?

[first-chevalier]

Noob question of the week...

With the lighting that you suggest Travis (6500k compact flourecent) x4 for a total of 100w can I keep any SPS or LPS corals, or corals of any kind or am I stuck with live rock, clean up crews, and one or two fish unless I club up to the $150 20 inch Corallife light (or similar product)?

[first-chevalier]

I just posted an update for my build. I suck at silicon, lol.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...48#post9194548

Pictures of my poor silicon job so you guys who THINK you suck can feel better. Also shots of how I had the tanks setup for my flow test that did flow so well.

[TitusvileSurfer]

Harbor Freight is a GREAT hardware store, just to throw that in. 1-800-905-5220 Diamond hole saw sets from $7.99

[Corrected the phone number at the poster's request.]

[TitusvileSurfer]

Harbor Freight is a GREAT hardware store, just to throw that in. 1-800-905-5220 Nickel Plated Diamond hole saw sets from $7.99

[first-chevalier]

I've been in a couple times and they do have really good prices, but I'm unsure about the quality and durability of the stuff they sell. I'm certain for light duty the tools are just fine, but I'm hard on stuff and light duty for me means replacing soon. Having said that I still intened on looking into the hole saw set there.

Travis, do you have any reservations about using a hole saw on the thin glass of the 10g verse using the dremel method? I've been told I shouldn't use the hole saw on that thin of glass, but I REALLY like how clean that comes out.

[danch]

Originally posted by first-chevalier

Pictures of my poor silicon job so you guys who THINK you suck can feel better.

Looks about like mine!

[danch]

Originally posted by hedgelj
In tanks where you are going to do additional water flow, more then just the overflow and return I have a question. Where do you put the additional powerheads and pumps that you'd then attach to either times or a wave timer to attempt to recreate some of the chaotic currents found in a reef during the different times of the day as well as from waves moving over the shallower sections?

I just see it as a major plumbing headache to run them from the sump to not overflow your tank nor drain your sump. I haven't found any threads here in the new to the hobby section, is there a better section with this info?

For flow over and above the sump return (which is generally needed) there are two basic options: a 'closed loop' and powerheads.

Powerheads are submersible pumps that you put right in the display. The advantage of this is simplicity, the disadvantages are they take up space and they're ugly. Common brands are Maxi-jet (for which modification kits are available (see 'maxi-mod')), Tunze (the mercedes-benz of powerheads), Seio.

A closed loop consists of one or more intakes in the display (can be drilled or 'over the top') feeding an external pump which sends water to one or more outlets in the display. The disadvantage is complexity, the advantages are a in getting equipment out of the display. An example of an 'over the top' (meaning it goes over, not through, the tank's walls) closed loop is here with pictures here. Thanks to the ever-helpful melev.

[first-chevalier]

By the way, since you guys are being helpful today (not that you aren't usually, lol) what are your thoughts on what corals (if any) I can keep using Travis' suggested lighting of 25w of 6500k CF?