Interesting stray voltage issue- long

poppin_fresh · 12/07/2007, 08:23 PM

I just finished plumbing my new 180 to my basement sump that is shared with my 72 bow and noticed something odd. Once the water reached a steady stream from the overflow I noticed the sump water "tingled". I thought this was very odd since I have had my hands in the the 72 and 180 seperately many times and never noticed this.

I immediately stopped the flow from the 180 and checked the sump again... no tingle. Resume flow...tingle comes back. I then start unplugging devices one at a time on the 180 to see what stops the voltage. There is only a Tunze 6060 a little Eheim and a heater in there, so it didn't take long. Its not until I unplug the Tunze that the tingle stops. Ahh haa...I got the culprit! So I think.

I placed the Tunze in bucket and check it to ground with a meter, it reads nothing. I then check the system water to ground and I get 11 volts! By sytematically removing devices I have determined that all the devices in my tank put out a stray volt or two, especially heaters (I've got 5!).

Roger from Tunze confirmed that my older 6060 has a graphite cylinder that can act as a ground probe. Obviously my tank has had some stray voltage, but I have never noticed it. If I couldn't feel it, I find it hard to believe that my live stock were affected. I would think that if I added a ground probe I would always get zapped reaching in the tank.

Sorry for the long post...any one have any ideas?

Mike O'Brien · 12/07/2007, 08:27 PM

Just birds on a wire.

barbra · 12/07/2007, 08:41 PM

There is some articles around about the uselessness, even potential harmfulness, of using grounding probes.

Look here:

http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...ingProbes.html

poppin_fresh · 12/07/2007, 09:34 PM

Thanks Barbra, thats kind of what I was thinking. If I couldn't feel the current before, how could the fish? It was only once it had a path to ground that I could feel it. Unfortunately I coudn't observe the tank to see if it caused stress to any inhabitants.

m2434 · 12/07/2007, 10:49 PM

good article, nice to finally see some common sense on the subject.

poppin_fresh · 12/08/2007, 08:12 AM

I guess I could try using one of those plugs with no ground pin on the pump and see if it stops current from jumping to ground.

WharfRat · 12/08/2007, 09:03 AM

We need to get this article stickied somewhere.

poppin_fresh · 12/08/2007, 05:53 PM

Thats kind of what I was thinking why hopelessly researching this topic.

poppin_fresh · 12/11/2007, 06:03 PM

UPDATE:

I found my issue! It was not the pump and the ground eliminator plug did not help.

I removed the powerstrip I had a few things (including the Tunze) plugged into and I noticed that the ground prong was missing. It had somehow snapped off in the outlet rendering the strip ungrounded. Once I removed it and plugged the pump directly into the wall I no longer got bit.

Mabey someone with more electrical knowlege can explain what was going on?

Icefire · 12/24/2007, 03:01 AM

Well if you tested the pump in a bucket but not connected to the same defective strip, the pump was grounded.

Fish can only sense the voltage if there is a grounding probe or get very near of the source (a leaking wire per ex.)

12/07/2007, 08:23 PM	#1
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	Interesting stray voltage issue- long I just finished plumbing my new 180 to my basement sump that is shared with my 72 bow and noticed something odd. Once the water reached a steady stream from the overflow I noticed the sump water "tingled". I thought this was very odd since I have had my hands in the the 72 and 180 seperately many times and never noticed this. I immediately stopped the flow from the 180 and checked the sump again... no tingle. Resume flow...tingle comes back. I then start unplugging devices one at a time on the 180 to see what stops the voltage. There is only a Tunze 6060 a little Eheim and a heater in there, so it didn't take long. Its not until I unplug the Tunze that the tingle stops. Ahh haa...I got the culprit! So I think. I placed the Tunze in bucket and check it to ground with a meter, it reads nothing. I then check the system water to ground and I get 11 volts! By sytematically removing devices I have determined that all the devices in my tank put out a stray volt or two, especially heaters (I've got 5!). Roger from Tunze confirmed that my older 6060 has a graphite cylinder that can act as a ground probe. Obviously my tank has had some stray voltage, but I have never noticed it. If I couldn't feel it, I find it hard to believe that my live stock were affected. I would think that if I added a ground probe I would always get zapped reaching in the tank. Sorry for the long post...any one have any ideas? __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

12/07/2007, 09:34 PM	#4
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	Thanks Barbra, thats kind of what I was thinking. If I couldn't feel the current before, how could the fish? It was only once it had a path to ground that I could feel it. Unfortunately I coudn't observe the tank to see if it caused stress to any inhabitants. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

12/07/2007, 10:49 PM	#5
m2434 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,171	good article, nice to finally see some common sense on the subject. __________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. ~Richard Feynman

12/08/2007, 08:12 AM	#6
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	I guess I could try using one of those plugs with no ground pin on the pump and see if it stops current from jumping to ground. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

12/08/2007, 09:03 AM	#7
WharfRat Celebrating 9 sober years Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: orlando Posts: 279	We need to get this article stickied somewhere. __________________ ~A Little Research Goes a Long Way~ Current Tank Info: 90 mixed sps, softies, verts, fish..probably some other stuff

12/07/2007, 08:27 PM	#2
Mike O'Brien Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,356	Just birds on a wire.

12/07/2007, 08:41 PM	#3
barbra Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Va Beach, VA Posts: 1,408	There is some articles around about the uselessness, even potential harmfulness, of using grounding probes. Look here: http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...ingProbes.html

12/08/2007, 05:53 PM	#8
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	Thats kind of what I was thinking why hopelessly researching this topic. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

12/11/2007, 06:03 PM	#9
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	UPDATE: I found my issue! It was not the pump and the ground eliminator plug did not help. I removed the powerstrip I had a few things (including the Tunze) plugged into and I noticed that the ground prong was missing. It had somehow snapped off in the outlet rendering the strip ungrounded. Once I removed it and plugged the pump directly into the wall I no longer got bit. Mabey someone with more electrical knowlege can explain what was going on? __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

12/24/2007, 03:01 AM	#10
Icefire Seasoned reefer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In Quebec, Canada Posts: 3,653	Well if you tested the pump in a bucket but not connected to the same defective strip, the pump was grounded. Fish can only sense the voltage if there is a grounding probe or get very near of the source (a leaking wire per ex.) __________________ Temp 80F, PH 8.5-8.0, Alk 6.8-7.2, Ca 430, Mg 1700, NO3 0-0.25, PO4 0.04, 34.4 PPT Lights @ 100% all others, 35% White Current Tank Info: 60g Cube, 120lbs live rocks, Hydra52 2x120W, 2 MP40+ 1 MP10 @ 70%, Phosban 550 GFO+Carbon, 200W Heater, SWC Skimmer, Kalk ATO, 150 gpd RODI