Sump Build Quetions (a LOT)

[SteveJakubiec]

Hi everyone, sadly, when I first started this hobby some 5 months ago, I didn't know the "wonders" of a sump, and didn't have the funds to get my tank drilled, and since I have 14, I couldn't drill it myself. Well that is besides the point. I would like to know what type of flaws would occur with the system I have in the picture above.

My Questions:

1. What type of Mag drive would I need...? Where would it go? I'm new @ this.
2. What type of Maxijet pump would send water to the phosban reactor?
3. Would that set up work well? Skimmer, Fuge, Reactor, and then DT? How would you set it up? Sump isn't set up yet, this is still the planning stages.
4. What could I do to stop it from overflows if I am not present, or if power goes out?


I may have more questions as I am often really confused by some answers, since I do not know much about aquaria and plumbing; yes I know I am a noob, but please try and help me out.


What size sump should I get? I have a standard 55g Tank ( I think) the measurements of it are: 48"X12.5"x20", I would like to have a sump that would be half the size of my stand, seeing as how I may need room for other things, and I have no shelving units near it. In addition. I would also like to add a section of the sump for a Frag Rack/Tank. I don't want a 55g sump please, just something that works well, and does the job well.
Those are all of the questions basically for now.

Thanks,
Steve

[SteveJakubiec]

Bump

[Tswifty]

Here's a quick response:

1. what type and how many overflows are you using to tranfer water to the sump?

2. If you are just feeding one reactor a mini-jet 404 will do the trick.

3. I personally like the out to in flow pattern.
Skimmer - - > Return < - - Fuge


4. In order to prevent an overflow you will need to leave enough space in your sump to hold the water that will continue to drain until the siphon goes into the "holding" position. This amount can be minimized through the use of syphon break holes and raising the height of your overflow box.

5. I like the 30g long tanks... it still leave you with a decent amount of room underneat the stand.

I wouldn't worry about a frag rack, you can fabricate one later to fit your compartments, and I've seen some pretty neat ones rigged up with magnets that can even go in the display tank without looking unsightly.

[timschmidt]

Let me try:

A 20 gallon long should do nicely but the size is what you want. I am a bit confused about the red Xs in your drawing so I will post a pic of a sump/refugium on a fellow reefers tank that should do what you want. Now to answer Qs in order:

1. Generally I agree with the flow of about 3 - 5 times your display. Use the head calculator to find what you need. But you shouldn't need anything bigger than a Mag 5.

2. For the phosban reactor I have heard 30 - 90 GPH is ideal, so I have a RIO 90 and will be using the included valve if I need to slow down the flow. I have heard of others using pumps as powerful as the Maxijet 1200 but I don't have a lot of experience with the reactors yet so I am sticking to the recommended flow from the manufacturer.

3. That should function fine. That set up may not be ideal, but it is much better than having nothing at all.

4. A check valve on the plumbing going to the display tank will limit the amount of water that enters the sump/refugium. If you have a drilled tank then you shouldn't have too much of an issue with water leaving. Just put a 1/8" hole on your return plumbing about 1/2 inch below the water line to make sure that any siphon will break. I would recommend two such holes in case a snail parks over one.

From one newbie to another: Just keep asking the questions and reading the threads. It helped me a ton.

Here is that pic:

With the three baffles on the left hand side make sure they are 1 inch apart and the one center baffle is 1 inch off the bottom of the tank. That really reduces the micro bubbles.

[SteveJakubiec]

First off, do I need a Phosban Reactor if I have a refugium with chaeto in it?
Directed at Tswifty8:

1. One HOB Overflow most likely this one: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=18358

(One quick question about that ) what would be connected to those two black tubelike things? What would be connected to those clear?

3. How would I incorporate the phosban reactor into it? (if it is needed)

4. I do not understand question 4, could you put it in dumber terms lol?

5. 30g long is ok, how much do you think it would cost for me to get a 30g long drilled? or buy one that is already drilled on the sides...? (I need the holes on the sides right? on The HOLE? Do I need one hole or two? What size hole?


I know this might sound like a lot of questions, but I need a lot of help.

[Tswifty]

Here's a quick sketch of how "I" would do it.

I ran a 20g long sump on my 55g tank, and in my opinion it is too small. If you want a sump only then you could possibly use it.

Also, I wouldn't recommend check valves. Just lay it out with syphon breaks, use max and min lines to know how much to fill, and you will be fine.

[SteveJakubiec]

1. What the hell is a check valve?
2.Just lay it out with syphon breaks, use max and min lines to know how much to fill, and you will be fine. ( Again what the hell are that/is that?

3.On the left of that pick what would that be? Phosban reactor?



Thanks, looks like a bigillion better than mine, I might run it that way.

still need more like information about the plumbing and such.

[Tswifty]

That is a good choice for an overflow box, (stay away from CPR) but with a 55g tank I would recommend one that only has one bulkhead in it.

This will be capable of moving 600 GPH max. therefore you will want a return pump that will put out close too but less than this.

How high is it from your sump to the top of your tank? You will need this measure to determine your headloss, or pump's output at that height.

[SteveJakubiec]

1. How high is a 30g long
2.

That is a good choice for an overflow box, (stay away from CPR) but with a 55g tank I would recommend one that only has one bulkhead in it.

Well doesn't the PF-300 only have one? or am I missing something?
Which do you recommend using from that page..? do any of them have 1 bulkhead? How would I go with it if it has two...?
3.what would be a good return pump..? Fairly cheap but good working if possible.

[Tswifty]

Originally posted by SteveJakubiec
1. What the hell is a check valve?
2.Just lay it out with syphon breaks, use max and min lines to know how much to fill, and you will be fine. ( Again what the hell are that/is that?

3.On the left of that pick what would that be? Phosban reactor?



Thanks, looks like a bigillion better than mine, I might run it that way.

still need more like information about the plumbing and such.

1. Sorry to say this again... but in my honest opinion, throw any idea of a check valve out the window. It's just something else that can become clogged or fail.

2. A siphon break hole... This is a small hole on your return line located directly under the surface of the water.

When your return pump is running it will force all of the air out of the return line while water is flowing into the tank.

If the power were to go out, no air is left in the line, this will create a siphon, and water will be sucked down through your return pump until the outlet is exposed to the air, which will break the siphon.

If you drill a small hole in the return line under the surface of the water, then once the water line hits this point the siphon will stop and no more water will be sucked down into your sump.

Here is a picture of what I am talking about:



3. Yes that would be the phosban reactor, which is a good idea to run, but you will not need one initially. I didn't run one for the first 2 months on my tank.

[SteveJakubiec]

1. Oh I get it now.
2. My tank has been set up for about 5-6 Months, would there be any adverse effects of changing to a sump...? I just finished adding my first corals last week. Mostly softies 1 Hammer Coral, 1 chalice.

3. Thanks, you've been a great help, and your build thread is awesome.

[Tswifty]

As far as the max and min fill lines go...

The maximum fill line is the point you can fill your return section to while running so that if the power goes out your sump will fill completely but not overflow.

Here's a picture.

This is the Max fill line on my setup... this is the highest point I can fill my middle (return) section during operation:



As you can see in the picture, once the power is cut the water level rises from the back siphon, and water left in the overflow box... If I had filled the sump any higher during normal operation, it would have overflowed.:




The minimum fill line is just the point where your pump will begin to suck in air once the water level gets to low.

[Tswifty]

Originally posted by SteveJakubiec
1. How high is a 30g long
2.
Well doesn't the PF-300 only have one? or am I missing something?
Which do you recommend using from that page..? do any of them have 1 bulkhead? How would I go with it if it has two...?
3.what would be a good return pump..? Fairly cheap but good working if possible.

Based on their descriptions I would go with the PF-800

A 30g long is 16" high

In order to choose the return pump you will need to get an estimate of how high the water needs to be pumped. A simple ballpark # is to measure the height from the bottom of your stand to the top rim of your tank. (not top of the canopy).

Get that number then you can start deciding on what brand to look at.

[Tswifty]

Originally posted by SteveJakubiec
1. Oh I get it now.
2. My tank has been set up for about 5-6 Months, would there be any adverse effects of changing to a sump...? I just finished adding my first corals last week. Mostly softies 1 Hammer Coral, 1 chalice.

3. Thanks, you've been a great help, and your build thread is awesome.

Only good things once you get it dialed in

Thank you

[SteveJakubiec]

hold on, I"ll get those measurements, just got to find my tapemeasure again.

oh and in ur second pic i see no water at all, might just be me, but I don't see any

[Tswifty]

Look over the top of the rim... it's filled to just above the base of the trim...

Oh yeah... I'm that good

[SteveJakubiec]

why does it flow that high again?

[Tswifty]

once the power is cut, the water doesn't just stop moving.

Your overflow will continue to pull the rest of the water out of the overflow box until it reaches a holding point.

Also the return line will now turn into a siphon and begin sucking water down into your sump. You do not want your siphon break hole to be above the water, or water will shoot out of it when the pump is on. Therefore you will at least have some water sucked down into your sump until it hits the siphon break hole and stops.

The combination of these 2 things will ultimately determine how high the water level will rise in your sump.

[Tswifty]

Here's a picture I made a while back to try and show how the overflow box works once the power is cut:

[Tswifty]

I have to run, but I'm sure some other members will be able to pick up in my abscence.

When you get the measurement # you will want to take that number and look up various pump manufacturers head loss charts.

look for your corresponding height and GPH that you want, and it will tell you which pump will best fit your needs.

I'm not sure how a 1" bulkhead can pull more than 600GPH on a U-Tube overflow, but that site says it can... IMO I would go on the safe side and look for a pump output between 500-600GPH at the height you measured.

Good luck, I should be back on later tonight after the college world series game if you have any further questions.

[SteveJakubiec]

It is 44" from cabinet floor to top of tank.

[SteveJakubiec]

well, when u get back, i need help finding the pump thing.

[Tswifty]

Here's the Mag-Drive chart I found at Marine Depot to show you how to look up the correct pump. According to this chart, I would go with the Mag 9.5, and use a ball valve on the return line to toggle it back a little.

[SteveJakubiec]

How much would one of those cost?

[Tswifty]

beats me, depends on where you would pick it up... Also, you don't need to buy a mag-drive... there are plenty of other comparable brands out there. I just used mag-drive as an example because I knew where the chart was.