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Unread 03/07/2009, 06:17 PM   #1
gradth
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Plans for a 55gal sump/refugium

Im turning my current 55 into a sump/refugium for my 180 that is being setup currently.

This is a 20 long that I had set up for my 55. Will the same basic design be good for a 55?



I think there might be a few little things I might tweak.

Just curious if anyone else had some pics of 55 gal sump/refugiums. See if im in the right ball park.


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Unread 03/07/2009, 06:25 PM   #2
jkeating2005
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i personally like the idea of having the return pump in the middle and splitting your drain to the fuge and skimmer areas. will baffles between the skimmer-->return area


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Unread 03/07/2009, 06:28 PM   #3
gradth
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Hmm, got any pics or diagrams of that?


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Unread 03/07/2009, 08:40 PM   #4
laf-reef
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here's my 55 sump/refugium that I run on my 120




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Unread 03/07/2009, 08:41 PM   #5
uncleof6
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Quote:
Originally posted by jkeating2005
i personally like the idea of having the return pump in the middle and splitting your drain to the fuge and skimmer areas. will baffles between the skimmer-->return area
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why people think splitting their drains to the refugium makes sense. all it does is turn your refugium into a garbage dump.

Regards,

Jim


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Unread 03/07/2009, 08:45 PM   #6
uncleof6
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Quote:
Originally posted by gradth
Hmm, got any pics or diagrams of that?
Ignoring the dimensions of this one, this is what you want to acheive.

Look at this, and then look at yours, the solution will be obvious. In this sump, the skimmer to the left, the refugium to the right, return in the center.



HTH,

Jim


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Unread 03/07/2009, 08:46 PM   #7
uncleof6
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Quote:
Originally posted by laf-reef
here's my 55 sump/refugium that I run on my 120

Just a question,

Why do you have a bubble trap coming out of your refugium and not out of your skimmer section?

Regards,

Jim


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Unread 03/07/2009, 10:20 PM   #8
strayvoltage
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Quote:
Originally posted by uncleof6
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why people think splitting their drains to the refugium makes sense. all it does is turn your refugium into a garbage dump.

Regards,

Jim
Jim, please explain what you mean by this. How does it turn your refugium into a garbage dump.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 01:26 AM   #9
gradth
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SO do you have one return going into the skimmer section and the other going into the refugium section?

Why no baffles coming out of the refugium section? Im a tad confused on the layout.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 08:13 AM   #10
coralfragger101
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Generally there is no need for a bubble trap out of the fuge because it is generally a lower flow and bubbles are not created so they are of no concern.

How a fuge turns into a garbage dump if you split the drain water to feed the fuge. It's real easy: Your drain water is DIRTY. Filled with detritus. The dirty water hits the fuge area that generally has a lower flow. The detritus settles out of the water column IN YOUR FUGE. It sits there and rots and becomes a nitrate factory instead of the nitrate removal mechanism that you had planned your fuge to be.

It is better IMO to feed the fuge by T'ing off your return water (the cleanest water possible). Since your skimmer will not remove the nitrates/phosphates from the water it will still be present in your return water. It is the nitrates/phosphates that will be "food" for your fuge - not detritus.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 11:47 AM   #11
gradth
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So that seems kinda odd to me. There would be no real flow through the fuge. Except when you topped off. Doesnt that kinda defeat the purpose of the fuge?


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Unread 03/08/2009, 11:51 AM   #12
coralfragger101
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Huh? What do you mean there would be no flow.

You set up flow through the fuge are either with a small pump/powerhead OR you T off of your return pump to send some water to the fuge area.

Yes - you want flow going to the fuge other than topping off. "How" you feed the fuge is up to you and several options are available.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 11:55 AM   #13
laf-reef
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Quote:
Originally posted by uncleof6
Just a question,

Why do you have a bubble trap coming out of your refugium and not out of your skimmer section?

Regards,

Jim
Jim,

There is a bubble trap on both sides. The bubble trap on the skimmer side is hidden by the top of the Ca Reactor.

Todd


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Unread 03/08/2009, 12:20 PM   #14
gradth
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hmm, seems Im dont get your layout. It sounded to me as if nothing but top off went into the fuge, which is why im confused.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 01:11 PM   #15
uncleof6
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thanks coralfragger you saved me a lot of typing.

Regards,

Jim


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Unread 03/08/2009, 01:49 PM   #16
uncleof6
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Quote:
Originally posted by gradth
hmm, seems Im dont get your layout. It sounded to me as if nothing but top off went into the fuge, which is why im confused.
Top off water should be going to your return section, not your fuge. The return section is where the water level varies with evaporation, and thus is the "control" area.

All drains from the tank, whether there are 1, 2, or 3, go to the skimmer section. that is the section on the left in my drawing, and what you have labeled as the return section in you photo.

Water goes back to the tank from the return section, (obviously) you tee the return line, with a valve, to the fuge. The fuge fills up, and overflows into the return area. A) this way the "cleanest" water flows in your fuge. B) You have better flow control C) add to this coralfraggers comments.

And before someone comes up with the all too common: "Doesn't the skimmer skim out the nutrients you need to feed your fuge?" NO it does not. That is not an opinion. Skimming pulls out dissolved organic compounds, not Nitrates, and others, that are not organic compounds, that are assimilated by macro algeas in your fuge, and converted to free Nitrogen by bacteria in low oxygen areas in your system.

The statement I made above "the solution will be obvious" means change the fucntions of the sections in your current sump, remove the redundant baffles, and you have "my" design-- actually it is a melev design.

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

HTH,

Jim



Last edited by uncleof6; 03/08/2009 at 01:54 PM.
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Unread 03/08/2009, 01:58 PM   #17
uncleof6
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Quote:
Originally posted by laf-reef
Jim,

There is a bubble trap on both sides. The bubble trap on the skimmer side is hidden by the top of the Ca Reactor.

Todd
Can't see it, so I went by that. Can only see one baffle in that area.

Regards,

Jim


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Unread 03/08/2009, 02:36 PM   #18
padgett152
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i think the only recommendation would be to make. the last baflle going to the refugium a little taller so you can have a deeper sand bed. i split my output from tank to fuge and one to skimmer with sock filters on both ends. it is far from a dump.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 03:15 PM   #19
coralfragger101
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I never have said that anyone's tank would crash or anything like that if they feed their fuge with overflow water. There are always a hundred ways to skin a cat.

Padgett: You are using filter socks on the overflow water which goes to your fuge and if your maintenance program includes frequent cleaning of these socks, then I'm sure your system will be fine (in that respect anyway). In your case, you are manually removing the big organics that could have settled into your fuge before they get a chance to settle out. So you ARE cleaning the water prior to it going into the fuge.

The problem arises with those that simply split their overflow water and feed the fuge with the raw water.

I just like to lessen the chances of bad things happening as much as I can. I filter sock my incoming water to my sump already. I just think it's easier to feed the fuge with the return water than to set up more filter socks or some other means of filtration just to feed the fuge when the clean water is already there in the return area.

BUT - The bottom line:
Same goal - we've just taken different roads.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 03:45 PM   #20
gradth
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So bottom line, the same set up I have above on my 20 long, will work in a 55, just modified a bit.

I got my plans from melevsreefs.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 04:53 PM   #21
uncleof6
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Exactly.

Others: For me, the filter socks are just a plain pita--at either end. What I am seeing here, between the lines, is that people are being blasted with "a pump that flows x gph is all you need not that bigger pump." With that line of thought, you have no room to play with, and far fewer options without getting that bigger pump on top of the too small pump that you where told was all that was needed.

Regards,

Jim



Last edited by uncleof6; 03/08/2009 at 05:02 PM.
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Unread 03/08/2009, 09:34 PM   #22
gradth
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Thank you all for the advice. Much appriciated.

Now, lets see your sumps.


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Unread 03/08/2009, 10:14 PM   #23
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Your water level seems too high, doesn't it? make sure you have enough volume left for your overflow when power down


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Unread 03/09/2009, 01:37 AM   #24
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sumps

Mate,i would make a multi level plenum and an algae scrubber over the top of that.

Reduce the skimmer area and place a dry scetion at the start.

You will get constant perfect PH,no nitrate,no phosphate and fewer water changes and a failsafe system.

The algae scrubbber should be shallow and run it on a mix of t8s run for 16 to 18 hours a day and trim it once a week and a barrier after it.

No water probs with these.

All,easy as!


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Unread 03/09/2009, 05:26 AM   #25
zachofalltrades
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Quote:
Originally posted by padgett152
i think the only recommendation would be to make. the last baflle going to the refugium a little taller so you can have a deeper sand bed. i split my output from tank to fuge and one to skimmer with sock filters on both ends. it is far from a dump.
+1 on the making the refugium baffle a little taller part... but not a huge fan of filter socks either and don't see the point in having 2 returns when all of the water from the skimmer section then goes straight to the fuge. When I had my baffles for the entrance and exit of the fuge at the same height it made a tumbling flow effect perfect for chaeto. My fuge and system overall was best with this design, and then the (insert explitive here) sump started leaking and after resealing it 3x it wouldn't stop so I scrapped it. Every since then I've been toying around with different designs, mainly out of laziness because I hated gluing the baffles, and the 30g that I had the baffles cut for was an old one and was approx 1/4" wider than my other 30g... so yeah try cutting 1/4" off of glass baffles.

You got me wanting to make another fuge just like my old one :-/

So in summary since there seems to be a lot of confusion going on, all tank returns > skimmer section > all flow goes through refugium > return section. Just like it appeared to be set up in the original pic.


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