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Old 10/23/2005, 11:55 AM   #1
kwl1763
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~450G Display (~1000G system) documentary starting

I struggled with what to name the thread as I'm a couple months out on actually placing the tank but a lot of planning has already begun and I want to go ahead and get it started now.

First things first. The tank will be 120x36x25. It will be an SPS/Clam dominated tank, barebottem with most likely black starboard!

It will be inwall viewable on 2 sides. 3/4" glass with Diamante low iron on the viewable sides.

It will be in my basement and will have a huge ~500 sqft fish room behind it where I can put all the sumps and equipment, etc.

So far here is what i will have.

4 100G rubbermaid troughs for sumps.

One will be for the skimmer input and output and where I store the heaters, phosban reactors,etc.

Second will be a "DSB in a bucket" see the thread in Anthony Calfo's all things salty forum for more info. Basically it is a remote DSB. That way if any problems do arise with it I can take it out and replace without tearing down the system!

The third will be a refugium and frag growout tank. 75% of the tank will be just cheato for the pods to play in. a small part will be sectioned off and made into a frag propegation section.

The final will be the return portion where I will have the calcium reactor effluent, keep the probes for the ACII, etc.

These will all be cascaded 6" above each other with bulkheads for drains near the top so no additional pumps will be needed. I am also planning the plumbing so that with a few ball valve turns I can take any one of them offline and still have the system run. This is in case one leaks, I have a DSB problem, a heater melts one, whatever just for safety factor.

I will also have 2 additional 100G troughs stacked on top of each other. The top will have saltwater in it. It will be setup so that a ~100G water change will be a couple ball valve deal. The bottom will be RO/DO water and where the autotopoff will come from to the return sump. When I do a water change I will run the RODI unit stright into the saltwater bin until it's full then I'll mix the salt in that bin with a powerhead so I'll always have a 100G "tank" at the ready in case of a major emergency. I have the new Merlin RO unit that can do like 700-1000GPD! There is still more planning that needs to go into this part of the setup but we'll save that for a later post!

Equipment: Pics will follow for some

Skimmer is a DIY ~6ft tall dual Beckett powered by an Iwaki 100. I will build a waste collector out of a 5G bucket with an autoshutoff feature.

I will inject ozone but do not have the unit yet and not sure which one I'll go with. More to come.

I have 4 phoban reactors that I will hook up in series. The first 3 will run phosban or simular and the last will run carbon. I assume that I will have to change the first canister much more often the the last 2 but I'll just have to play that one by ear for now.

I have a dual chamber monster calcium reactor built by Reeftek with an Ehiem pump. I will probably T off the same feed pump for the phosban reactors for this. Both need so little flow!

Lighting: From a previous tank I have 2 250W DE PFO pendants and ballasts. I think I am going to get 20ks for these and run them in between 3 250W Iwasaki's with either Luminarc or PFO reflectors. I'm hoping that the 20k combined with the 6500s will give a nice look. If not I can always add some T5 actinics.

Flow:

2 Tunze waveboxes, a closed loop with this 1/3hp pump http://www.bermudaaquatics.com/hepumps.htm and a manifold with ~10 outlets at the top.
2 Tunze 6100s.
The return pump will be an Iwaki 55 with two eductors on the end. I haven't eaxactly calculated total flow but it's a lot, I think over 15,000 GPH!

I will have 5 holes drilled in the back. A 2" bulkhead for the closed loop intake, 2 1.5" drains, and 2 1.5" returns. I will have a 60"x8"x8" horizontal overflow centered in the back. I'm debating on hole location for the closed loop intake and the returns. Part of me want to put them lower so I can create better movement along the bottom but the other part of me wants to put them all near the top so If I ever have a bulkhead leak I'll be OK. Opinions?


That's enough for now. Next post has the pics!


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Last edited by kwl1763; 10/23/2005 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 10/23/2005, 12:18 PM   #2
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Ok first this is where the tank is going to be. Right where the boxes are now. For reference the little wall in the back there is 36" and the wall running toward you to the door space is 124"



Here is the fish room for sumps and equipment. It is roughly 28'x22' but of course some real estate is taken already with the AC/heater, hot water heater, etc




Here is under the stairs. this is in between where the tank will be and the fish room. So tank (far left) will back up to this space, and then to the right of this space is the fish room. I think in here I'm going to build a permenant platform since I will basically only have the back side fully accessable and the stand will be 40" tall I'll probably built a 2 ft or so platform to allow me to work in the tank easier.




Here some equipment pics. 90% is from previous tanks.

This is the skimmer and behind you can see the calcium reactor and my Q tank.





Then we have what I call the graveyard. It has a smorgasboard of lights, pumps, waveboxes, etc. About 90% I've had for quite a while and has run on at least one other tank. My wife asked me how much money was sitting in that pile. It almost made me cry thinking about it!



Finally a closer up picture of the 100G sumps. These things are very thick and well built. A bargain at $50 for sure.




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Last edited by kwl1763; 10/23/2005 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 10/23/2005, 04:26 PM   #3
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holy skimmer batman. Well, you know what they say about Texas?!


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Old 10/23/2005, 04:32 PM   #4
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That was true until he moved to ATL. I guess GA boys now have a new saying.

Good luck Keith. That looks like it's going to be sweet.

From what I've read about the Lum3, they are the way to go, especially if you are going to have your DE fixtures (spot) imbetween the 6.5k.

I like the skimmer, that thing is going to rock. Where did you get it from?

That closed loop pump is sweet, is it sw safe?

Chris


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Old 10/23/2005, 04:47 PM   #5
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Great project, good luck, I'm sure updates won't come soon enough for anybody---especially you!!

You have a lot of thought into this and I must have missed something about the sumps....
If you have 3x100g cascading into each other and the return pump to the tank drawing from the bottom one, what if a power failure when you are not home-- would you not overfill the bottom one by some amount- unless you run it really low (taking into account whatever flow will come out of the 2 tubs above it, the plumbing from the tank, and the overflow from the tank which will be a lot in your case with such a large tank) ?
'Steve


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Old 10/23/2005, 06:48 PM   #6
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Keith, I would add at least one more 1.5" drain. My 280g has two 1.5" drains, and you are almost doubling the tank I have now. It would be ideal to have plenty of drains, even if they all drain slowly. Plus you can direct various drains to the perfect location (skimmer section or refugium or prop as needed).

Black Starboard may look good, but I have to say after seeing Ryan's white starboard covered with coralline in less than two months, white is fine. Plus you do get some reflective qualities for the undersides of your SPS at least for a while.

A platform to work on the tank would be great, or a walkboard at least. I'm about to put one behind my tank finally.

The closed loop with eductors and your return pump should be nice, but I have a feeling you'll want more 6100's or the new Vortech perhaps.

This should be great. Wish I was closer to see how this thing evolves. I hope you post a ton of pictures.


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Old 10/23/2005, 07:05 PM   #7
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Marc do you have multiple drains in your over flow, or do you have one drain per overflow? Any pictures (I know you are good with the camera). Thanks Tom.


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Old 10/23/2005, 09:22 PM   #8
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That's a good idea Marc about adding another drain. Can't hurt anything even though I'm only going to flow like 1300 GPH through the drains. I'll really have to plan what size all my piping and stuff is. That is something I haven't done yet.

White is fine but I have seen a tank in person now with black and it looks truly awesome. It doen't matter that much since within a few months it won't really matter anyway! So I'll check the price. If it's more expensive I'll probably stick with white.

Pond frog, the bulkheads I'm going to drill will be near the top of the sumps so when the power goes out all that will drain will be the little bit down to the bulkhead bottom. I figure there will be roughly 40 - 50G total when the power goes out with almost 50% coming from the skimmer! Even up to 75G I should be fine as I'm goin gto run the bottom one only about 25-30G for that very reason!

So the offset will be small with the water flowing into the first section from the drain then going into my newly drilled bulkhead at the top to the next tank, etc, etc. I hope that makes sense. I'll try to get some sort of drawing together to make it clearer.

I need to update all my stuff to GA and get rid of my old tank in my sig line etc but I'm lazy! I had to turn in my Texas license and get a Georgia one yesterday. It was kind of sad! I do love it here though!

Chris the skimmer ws built by a guy in Dallas. He ended up not putting together a big tank so he sold it to me with the Iwaki 100 for real cheap. I have to say it is the best deal I have made! I haven't run it in saltwater yet. I have run it in the tub and it water tested fine so I don't think I'll have any issues. The pump is indeed saltwater safe. The guy that owns that site is at MACNA every year and is a great guy. The pumps are real efficient for what they pump!


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Old 10/23/2005, 10:08 PM   #9
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My tank has two overflows. Each one has a 1.5" drain and a 1" return. I'll have to take some fresh pictures, but you can see some of it from beneath on this page actually: http://www.melevsreef.com/280g/280g_sump.html

Keith, there really is no limit to how many holes you have for the overflow with a horizontal tray like overflow to run the length of the tank. 2, 3, 4 would fit easily. You can screw a strainer on to them to keep the fish from going down the drain. Matter of fact, I'd recommend it. You may also want to put a lid or cover over that overflow to reduce nuisance algae and hopefully keep fish out of there.


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Old 10/24/2005, 09:13 AM   #10
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If you can, you may want to make your overflows shallower than 8", especially if you have access from behind the tank. With slower flow, more detrius will buildup and getting a hose down in the overflow would be easier if it was shallower.

Chris


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Old 10/24/2005, 05:31 PM   #11
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Keith - What are your plans in addressing humidity in the basement? That's A LOT of water!

Ron


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Old 10/24/2005, 05:43 PM   #12
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Keith,

Glad to here that your project is finally becoming a reality. Can't wait to see progress from here on out.

Wish you still lived in the metroplex so I could come check it out in person.

Good luck!

Steve


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Old 10/24/2005, 10:01 PM   #13
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Wow - Keith, this is going to be awesome. I like your idea of having multiple sumps. I cannot wait to see more pictures. Best of luck - it's going to be alot of work.


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Old 10/24/2005, 10:11 PM   #14
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"work" he he he he i love that kind of work. looks like a AWESOME game plan.


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Old 10/24/2005, 10:39 PM   #15
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All RIGHT Beeotch! Now we's talkin (always thought the bum looked like a pimp)

I like everthing cept the isolated DSB? I guess I'll have to read Calfo's link. On the brightside,l you could have cool lagoon like effect with it. You could but a lot of little sand shifting diamond star gobies and yellowheaded jawfish into it!

I'm excited for you. This is the fun and frustrating stuff. How lucky are you to have a basement!!!!!

I don't care that my starboard is covered in coraline, I think black is the way to go! (I actually wanted seafoam green, but when I saw the price I got sticker shocked and had a SUPER deal on the white).

You may know this already, but the bulkhead fittings on those Rubbermaid bins will leak no matter what. Go out and get some epoxy and seal them shut before you start to plumb anything. Drill thru the plastic to add your own bulkheads to plumb into.

I would use two inch pipe all the way around for your drains. This way you will never have a ratelimiting step with your returns and you should be able to have your pump running full speed. With my Hammerhead, the three 1 inch drains can't keep up with the volume in the sump. If i open up the pump all of the way, it will run dry. Mind you, the volume is ALOT smaller than what you can have, but you shouldn't have an issue.

I am also concerned with the Humitidy and potential mold problems you may get. When I was in York with my 350gallon prop system that I had in the basement, I consistently had humidity that was 70% to 90%. Mold started to grow on the walls after 4-5 months. Since I was renting, I wasn't too concerned, but I began to keep the windows cracked during the day. This helped to some extent, but I only needed a year fix. You really need to plan this out before you do another thing.


You need to invest in this to check your temp and humidity

http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.co...75000&IID=7878

I can't wait to see the finished product in person.


Good Luck Buddy!
Peace


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Old 10/26/2005, 08:21 PM   #16
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kwl,

Who did you decide to go with as the manufacture?

Mel


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Old 10/27/2005, 05:54 PM   #17
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wow


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Old 10/28/2005, 09:28 AM   #18
kwl1763
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Probably going with Aquarium Obssesed or Miracles.

I am worried about the humidity.

One thing is in this thresd that I will do:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=5

I will for sure cover the ceilings and walls with clear heavy mil plastci to keep the water out.

I may still have to install an exhaust fan but that is not a major effort if i do. I'll make a longer response later. I'm in Singapore right now so access is limited.


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Old 10/30/2005, 09:23 AM   #19
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i had built mine in a fake wall in basement and humidity was high in the room.. but i also ran de-humidifier in main room.. but the more you seal it in the worse it will be.. some leaching out is not a bad thing... mainly just get the air moving.. i installed shuttered bi-fold doors on mine with fans point at it to circulate the air...


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Old 10/30/2005, 10:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by kwl1763
I will for sure cover the ceilings and walls with clear heavy mil plastic to keep the water out.
Why not use FRP board? It would be more expensive but you cant accidentally tear it and it will look a lot better. As long as you seal the edges, no moisture will ever get through. You can even get similar panels to FRP that look like tile.

Good luck


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Old 10/31/2005, 08:15 AM   #21
kwl1763
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReefWaters
Why not use FRP board? It would be more expensive but you cant accidentally tear it and it will look a lot better. As long as you seal the edges, no moisture will ever get through. You can even get similar panels to FRP that look like tile.

Good luck
I may end up going that route but it will be a whole lot more expensive. Also where this is going is no beauty contest for sure. My fish room will be messy as it is so I'm not to worried about the appearence part at all. I am worried about sealing the edges, etc. Thanks for the suggestions!


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Old 10/31/2005, 10:04 PM   #22
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I'd scratch the fuge/remote DSB idea. If it's going to be truly BB, the fuge will not grow, as the nutrients will be way too low. Why would you try to grow macroalgae, when the point of a BB system is to not grow macro/microalgae? I don't know much about the remote DSB though, so I just tied the two together. Sounds like an awesome system though! Maybe instead of the fuge/DSB 100g tanks, why not make them prop/frag tanks?


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Old 11/01/2005, 08:29 AM   #23
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If the fuge won't grow that's fine. It won't hurt anything and will be a place for pods to breed. Nothing bad can really come out of it. As far as the remote DSB. I'm not willing to get into a major debate here about it but suffice it to say that after talking to many many many people about it I decided to go that route.

It's not the only way for sure. If I ever have any issues with it taking it offline will be a snap but the extra diversity and NNR it adds is worth any risks in my opiinion.


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Old 11/01/2005, 02:19 PM   #24
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Plus you can put a lawn chair next to it, pop open a beer, kick your feet up and enjoy your lagoon.


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Old 11/01/2005, 10:50 PM   #25
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Plus you can put a lawn chair next to it, pop open a beer, kick your feet up and enjoy your lagoon.
I'll bring the beer!


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