cleaning used acrylic tank

moonman · 02/25/2006, 07:51 PM

Hi all,

I purchased a used acrylic tank awhile back, and there is a little bit of white haze to it. I've used vinegar and 100% undiluted muriatic acid, and both will not work. It sort of looks like snail footprints on the acrylic. Any idea or solutions to remove this haze?

thanks in advance,

Jeff

Speckled Grouper · 02/25/2006, 07:58 PM

Get Novus 1, 2 and 3, depending on the severity of the haze and/or scratches. This product is awesome, your tank will look like new. It can only be used before you fill the tank though.

reefshadow · 02/25/2006, 09:12 PM

Yeah, the Novus product works wonders. If you attach a buffing wheel to a power drill it will go MUCH faster. Use some water in a squirt bottle and keep the wheel moving, don't stay in one area too long.

I just refinished the entire front panel of a truvu 55 gallon with Novus 3 only. I didn't need to even use the 2 or 1 formula. I obtained it at a glass shop.

It is kind of a long process though, even with the buffing wheel. It took about 5 hours for the front panel only, but it had some pretty radical scratches. May go quicker for just a light haze.

Good luck!

moonman · 02/26/2006, 01:17 AM

hi,

I'm not sure if those will help with my haze problem. I have already tried Novus 2 and 3 (including attaching a power drill to a buffing wheel) and it will not remove it. Should I try using micro mesh sand paper?

Jeff

reefshadow · 02/26/2006, 05:42 PM

I'm not sure, this is getting out of my realm of experience. I think what I remember is if you can feel hazing or scratching with your fingernail, you should use the micromesh, working through all the grits and then go to the novus.

In my case I could definately feel scratches, but couldn't find the micromesh in my area. I tried the novus and it worked well for me, but I did have to work with it a long time. Mine is only a 55 and it took 5 hours of buffing to get them out.

If it looks like a snail trail, it may be. I heard some snails can scratch acrylic with their radula, or maybe the owner had an urchin?

It seemed like lubricating with water in a squirt bottle really helped for me, it went faster when I decided to try it.

I have also heard of using heat to melt out scratches and haze, but I think this requires some experience, you have to be very carefull.

Speckled Grouper · 02/26/2006, 06:21 PM

I just sat down from 3 hours trying to get the deeper scratches out, and I am ready to cry......The Novus works great on light scratches and haze, but it won't get the deep scratches out.
The acrylic scratch remover kit is worthless in my opinion, the materials in the kit are too small and you have to clean them too often. I went to HD and the finest they have is 400. I got some sort of a sponge thing, it is 320 but works ok. I have been working on a 2' scratch over and over and it's still there.....I am too chicken to use power tools on it.

chrismunn · 02/26/2006, 06:26 PM

http://www.ah-supply.com/browseprodu...ic-Polish.HTML

oceanproaquatics.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/2101?

chrismunn · 02/26/2006, 06:27 PM

www.gloice.com/novus.htm

reefshadow · 02/26/2006, 06:35 PM

Hey, Grouper-

Sorry you're having a hard time.

Have you tried wet sanding with the micromesh? I remember reading that this is really the only way to go, it will lubricate and also radically increase the life of the micromesh.

I wasn't afraid to use power tools because I got the tank used for so cheap, it was really just an experiment for me.

Fwiw, I also tried using the novus by hand to start with, and after an hour of absolutely nothing, I went and bought the buffing wheel and chuck thingy to attach it to the drill.

BigReefing · 02/26/2006, 06:42 PM

who cares its a used tank. I have a used acrylic 100 and it has scraches. I bout it like that on purpose so I wouldnt feel bad about geting it scratched. I think you need to remember that most brand new things get scratches on them, but you didn't have to pay that brand new price. I would just was it up and put it up like I did.

chrismunn · 02/26/2006, 06:58 PM

well did the novus work?
i use very very fine grit buffing gels on clear coated cultured marble and it works great.
you can use like 30-60 micron wet sand paper to reduce the larger scrathes, and then 60+ micron sanding gels to do mos tof the rest of the polishing, then perhaps finish up with the novus 1,2, and 3.

moonman · 02/26/2006, 10:12 PM

I dont feel any scratches if I put my fingernail on it. It's possible that something may have bonded with the acrylic, somehow?

Anyone have any insight on this?

Yes, it's a used tank, but I'd like to believe I can remove the haze before I can start my reef up again. For what's it's worth, I'm starting to believe that's not scratches in the tank but some haze.

Hopefully someone with the same situation can provide some light to this situation?

Thanks,

Jeff
Chris, what's 60+ micron sanding gel? Can I purchase at HD?

Speckled Grouper · 02/26/2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefshadow
Hey, Grouper-

Sorry you're having a hard time.

Have you tried wet sanding with the micromesh? I remember reading that this is really the only way to go, it will lubricate and also radically increase the life of the micromesh.

I wasn't afraid to use power tools because I got the tank used for so cheap, it was really just an experiment for me.

Fwiw, I also tried using the novus by hand to start with, and after an hour of absolutely nothing, I went and bought the buffing wheel and chuck thingy to attach it to the drill.

What exactly does the micromesh look like? HD does not seem to carry it. May be a Hobby Store?

And what does the buffing wheel look like? Where do you buy that?

Looks like I will be buffing until the tank is reduced to a mound of acrylic shavings

reefshadow · 02/27/2006, 01:57 AM

Nah, HD and lowes are so lame. The best I could find was like 400 grit, not any good for acrylic.

I just assumed the micromesh was what came with your scratch kit. I've never seen it so I don't know what it looks like, and after 2 hours of searching in my town I couldn't find it. I've heard that it is sometimes used for prepping before doing auto paint but when I went to an auto body place they looked at my like I was a crazy person or something. I know you can order it online.

The buffing wheel you should be able to find at any hardware store. It is a round flat cotton wheel and the chuck attachment for a power drill should be right by them. You attach the wheel and then used the side of it to do the buffing. My hubby set this up for me.

You can really do it alot faster if using the novus alone this way. Like I said above though, you have to keep moving and use a lubricant or you can burn the acrylic with the friction. The ONLY thing I noticed after the fact was that I had to take alot of surface off to remove some very deep scratches, and since I didn't sand and float out the scratch area that way, A few of the repaired scratches are very slightly optically different when viewed from an angle, causing a "ripple" in a few places. It takes some looking to see this, and only the outside repairs appear this way. Even with micro mesh this may have been the result for me though. The tank looked like some bozo had been throwing it around a prison yard, and scrubbed the inside with broken glass.

reefshadow · 02/27/2006, 02:04 AM

Oh yeah, Moonman.

I'm not sure. Usually the vinegar ond/or muritic acid will remove any calcium based haze. I did notice that you said you used undiluted acid? I know it is suposed to be non reactive w/ plastic but maybe it etched it?

I just don't know. Alot of people would say to buy a new acrylic tank or glass. Every thread I researched said that resurfacing a tank is a huge time investment, and not for the faint of heart.

This is my very first experience with an acrylic tank, even my 240 display is glass. I like the weight and clarity of the acrylic, but this scratching thing is a pita. I don't think I would ever buy a new acrylic display for that one reason.

moonman · 02/27/2006, 10:36 AM

Hi Reefshadow,

the haze was there before I started cleaning with any acids. I'm not sure if it made it worse. I really dont think so.

I drilled holes in the back for closed loop and tested for leaks with just tap water. The haze is hardly visible when filled with water, so I think I'm just going to leave it at that. Unless, someone can provide a solution up until I try to move the tank inside the house this weekend.

I agree with you on acrylic. My next big tank will be glass.
Thanks all,

Jeff

giants4pc · 02/27/2006, 10:40 AM

I feel your pain. I had the same problem. I redid mine over and over again and still wasn't getting the result I wanted. I used micro-mesh. Finally, I got so fed up I drained the tank, bought another kit and redid the inside. It was coming out awesome. Then, I used a liquid abrasive (final step) product and the haze was worse than ever. I resanded. It looks better now than it ever has but it is still not as crystal clear as glass. Be careful with a used acrylic.

moonman · 02/27/2006, 10:43 AM

giants4pc,

what was the other kit that you used to make it look awesome?

reefshadow · 02/27/2006, 04:50 PM

Hey, Moonman-

Just as an interesting side note, micromesh is supposed to be perfectly safe to use undewater. I have heard of folks putting a very fine grit piece on the inside of their magnets, that way when they clean the tank they are also resurfacing it. You would have to do a search on this to get particulars, i'm kinda vague on the whole thing. You could maybe get rid of the haze over time using this method. I may try it after filling my tank.

kurplunk · 02/27/2006, 05:31 PM

You can find different brands of micromesh through the internet and most companies carry kits for this very purpose. You can use it with the water still in the tank. The grade of sandpaper runs from 1600 all the way up to 8000. It is a teious and slow process but it should remove any type of scratch no matter how severe. It has saved me from breaking down tanks, and made me feel better about purchasing used ones. So if you have more time than money definitely the way to go. Novus can only go so far and is a good product for small touch ups or polishing. When sanding tank try doing a section at a time. I have tried doing 6'' by 6'' sections to keep track of progress. Just my experience good luck!

kurplunk · 02/27/2006, 05:34 PM

Forgot to tell you it is about a four to six step process depending on how deep the scratches are.

moonman · 02/27/2006, 05:46 PM

Kurplunk,

have you purchased locally> I noticed you're from the bay area.

Jeff

Speckled Grouper · 02/27/2006, 06:21 PM

I worked with the kit yesterday and it was a PITA! It didn't remove the deep scratches and I had to constantly wash them to get the dust out. I went to HD and got some 320 sponges, now, of course the tank looks like hell and the deep scratches are a little better but not gone completely.
I do a little every day, but I think I will eventually have to climb into the tank and do it from the inside, it's very tiring to stand on the ladder and bend down while sanding. Not to mention that I can't reach all the way down into it......

kurplunk · 02/28/2006, 04:23 PM

The process is very time consuming and like I said it takes a lot of steps depending on the scratches. The sand paper or micro mesh is very fine. It is a wetsand type of sandpaper and is used for fine metal polishing and things of that sort. The lowest grade i have started out with is 3200 not 320. As far as local availability the only luck you might have finding it would be at tap plastics or a specialty machine equipment shop. I have only purchased it online. Done right guaranteed results. I have to look up the name of the place I ordered from, it's been awhile, but i've recommended it to others with similar results. I'll let you know as soon as i find the invoice. You can also just do a search on google or something.

kurplunk · 02/28/2006, 05:16 PM

Go to www.etr-inc.com and you should find everything you need to know. Good Luck!

02/25/2006, 07:51 PM	#1
moonman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 115	cleaning used acrylic tank Hi all, I purchased a used acrylic tank awhile back, and there is a little bit of white haze to it. I've used vinegar and 100% undiluted muriatic acid, and both will not work. It sort of looks like snail footprints on the acrylic. Any idea or solutions to remove this haze? thanks in advance, Jeff

02/25/2006, 07:58 PM	#2
Speckled Grouper Sticks Suck! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Davie & Big Pine Key, FL Posts: 2,655	Get Novus 1, 2 and 3, depending on the severity of the haze and/or scratches. This product is awesome, your tank will look like new. It can only be used before you fill the tank though. __________________ The cure for anything is salt water.....sweat, tears, or the sea. Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 265g

02/25/2006, 09:12 PM	#3
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	Yeah, the Novus product works wonders. If you attach a buffing wheel to a power drill it will go MUCH faster. Use some water in a squirt bottle and keep the wheel moving, don't stay in one area too long. I just refinished the entire front panel of a truvu 55 gallon with Novus 3 only. I didn't need to even use the 2 or 1 formula. I obtained it at a glass shop. It is kind of a long process though, even with the buffing wheel. It took about 5 hours for the front panel only, but it had some pretty radical scratches. May go quicker for just a light haze. Good luck! __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/26/2006, 05:42 PM	#5
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	I'm not sure, this is getting out of my realm of experience. I think what I remember is if you can feel hazing or scratching with your fingernail, you should use the micromesh, working through all the grits and then go to the novus. In my case I could definately feel scratches, but couldn't find the micromesh in my area. I tried the novus and it worked well for me, but I did have to work with it a long time. Mine is only a 55 and it took 5 hours of buffing to get them out. If it looks like a snail trail, it may be. I heard some snails can scratch acrylic with their radula, or maybe the owner had an urchin? It seemed like lubricating with water in a squirt bottle really helped for me, it went faster when I decided to try it. I have also heard of using heat to melt out scratches and haze, but I think this requires some experience, you have to be very carefull. __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/26/2006, 06:21 PM	#6
Speckled Grouper Sticks Suck! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Davie & Big Pine Key, FL Posts: 2,655	I just sat down from 3 hours trying to get the deeper scratches out, and I am ready to cry......The Novus works great on light scratches and haze, but it won't get the deep scratches out. The acrylic scratch remover kit is worthless in my opinion, the materials in the kit are too small and you have to clean them too often. I went to HD and the finest they have is 400. I got some sort of a sponge thing, it is 320 but works ok. I have been working on a 2' scratch over and over and it's still there.....I am too chicken to use power tools on it. __________________ The cure for anything is salt water.....sweat, tears, or the sea. Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 265g

02/26/2006, 01:17 AM	#4
moonman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 115	hi, I'm not sure if those will help with my haze problem. I have already tried Novus 2 and 3 (including attaching a power drill to a buffing wheel) and it will not remove it. Should I try using micro mesh sand paper? Jeff

02/26/2006, 06:26 PM	#7
chrismunn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 4,200	http://www.ah-supply.com/browseprodu...ic-Polish.HTML oceanproaquatics.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/2101? __________________ Marine Aquarists Association of South Texas Austin Reef Club PBITAWA... Current Tank Info: 14g bio cube

02/26/2006, 06:27 PM	#8
chrismunn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 4,200	www.gloice.com/novus.htm __________________ Marine Aquarists Association of South Texas Austin Reef Club PBITAWA... Current Tank Info: 14g bio cube

02/26/2006, 06:35 PM	#9
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	Hey, Grouper- Sorry you're having a hard time. Have you tried wet sanding with the micromesh? I remember reading that this is really the only way to go, it will lubricate and also radically increase the life of the micromesh. I wasn't afraid to use power tools because I got the tank used for so cheap, it was really just an experiment for me. Fwiw, I also tried using the novus by hand to start with, and after an hour of absolutely nothing, I went and bought the buffing wheel and chuck thingy to attach it to the drill. __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/26/2006, 06:42 PM	#10
BigReefing Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 454	who cares its a used tank. I have a used acrylic 100 and it has scraches. I bout it like that on purpose so I wouldnt feel bad about geting it scratched. I think you need to remember that most brand new things get scratches on them, but you didn't have to pay that brand new price. I would just was it up and put it up like I did.

02/26/2006, 06:58 PM	#11
chrismunn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 4,200	well did the novus work? i use very very fine grit buffing gels on clear coated cultured marble and it works great. you can use like 30-60 micron wet sand paper to reduce the larger scrathes, and then 60+ micron sanding gels to do mos tof the rest of the polishing, then perhaps finish up with the novus 1,2, and 3. __________________ Marine Aquarists Association of South Texas Austin Reef Club PBITAWA... Current Tank Info: 14g bio cube

02/26/2006, 10:12 PM	#12
moonman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 115	I dont feel any scratches if I put my fingernail on it. It's possible that something may have bonded with the acrylic, somehow? Anyone have any insight on this? Yes, it's a used tank, but I'd like to believe I can remove the haze before I can start my reef up again. For what's it's worth, I'm starting to believe that's not scratches in the tank but some haze. Hopefully someone with the same situation can provide some light to this situation? Thanks, Jeff Chris, what's 60+ micron sanding gel? Can I purchase at HD?

02/27/2006, 01:57 AM	#14
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	Nah, HD and lowes are so lame. The best I could find was like 400 grit, not any good for acrylic. I just assumed the micromesh was what came with your scratch kit. I've never seen it so I don't know what it looks like, and after 2 hours of searching in my town I couldn't find it. I've heard that it is sometimes used for prepping before doing auto paint but when I went to an auto body place they looked at my like I was a crazy person or something. I know you can order it online. The buffing wheel you should be able to find at any hardware store. It is a round flat cotton wheel and the chuck attachment for a power drill should be right by them. You attach the wheel and then used the side of it to do the buffing. My hubby set this up for me. You can really do it alot faster if using the novus alone this way. Like I said above though, you have to keep moving and use a lubricant or you can burn the acrylic with the friction. The ONLY thing I noticed after the fact was that I had to take alot of surface off to remove some very deep scratches, and since I didn't sand and float out the scratch area that way, A few of the repaired scratches are very slightly optically different when viewed from an angle, causing a "ripple" in a few places. It takes some looking to see this, and only the outside repairs appear this way. Even with micro mesh this may have been the result for me though. The tank looked like some bozo had been throwing it around a prison yard, and scrubbed the inside with broken glass. __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/27/2006, 02:04 AM	#15
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	Oh yeah, Moonman. I'm not sure. Usually the vinegar ond/or muritic acid will remove any calcium based haze. I did notice that you said you used undiluted acid? I know it is suposed to be non reactive w/ plastic but maybe it etched it? I just don't know. Alot of people would say to buy a new acrylic tank or glass. Every thread I researched said that resurfacing a tank is a huge time investment, and not for the faint of heart. This is my very first experience with an acrylic tank, even my 240 display is glass. I like the weight and clarity of the acrylic, but this scratching thing is a pita. I don't think I would ever buy a new acrylic display for that one reason. __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/27/2006, 10:36 AM	#16
moonman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 115	Hi Reefshadow, the haze was there before I started cleaning with any acids. I'm not sure if it made it worse. I really dont think so. I drilled holes in the back for closed loop and tested for leaks with just tap water. The haze is hardly visible when filled with water, so I think I'm just going to leave it at that. Unless, someone can provide a solution up until I try to move the tank inside the house this weekend. I agree with you on acrylic. My next big tank will be glass. Thanks all, Jeff

02/27/2006, 10:40 AM	#17
giants4pc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: connecticut Posts: 1,699	I feel your pain. I had the same problem. I redid mine over and over again and still wasn't getting the result I wanted. I used micro-mesh. Finally, I got so fed up I drained the tank, bought another kit and redid the inside. It was coming out awesome. Then, I used a liquid abrasive (final step) product and the haze was worse than ever. I resanded. It looks better now than it ever has but it is still not as crystal clear as glass. Be careful with a used acrylic.

02/27/2006, 10:43 AM	#18
moonman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 115	giants4pc, what was the other kit that you used to make it look awesome?

02/27/2006, 04:50 PM	#19
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	Hey, Moonman- Just as an interesting side note, micromesh is supposed to be perfectly safe to use undewater. I have heard of folks putting a very fine grit piece on the inside of their magnets, that way when they clean the tank they are also resurfacing it. You would have to do a search on this to get particulars, i'm kinda vague on the whole thing. You could maybe get rid of the haze over time using this method. I may try it after filling my tank. __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/27/2006, 05:31 PM	#20
kurplunk Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 414	You can find different brands of micromesh through the internet and most companies carry kits for this very purpose. You can use it with the water still in the tank. The grade of sandpaper runs from 1600 all the way up to 8000. It is a teious and slow process but it should remove any type of scratch no matter how severe. It has saved me from breaking down tanks, and made me feel better about purchasing used ones. So if you have more time than money definitely the way to go. Novus can only go so far and is a good product for small touch ups or polishing. When sanding tank try doing a section at a time. I have tried doing 6'' by 6'' sections to keep track of progress. Just my experience good luck!

02/27/2006, 05:34 PM	#21
kurplunk Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 414	Forgot to tell you it is about a four to six step process depending on how deep the scratches are.

02/27/2006, 05:46 PM	#22
moonman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 115	Kurplunk, have you purchased locally> I noticed you're from the bay area. Jeff

02/27/2006, 06:21 PM	#23
Speckled Grouper Sticks Suck! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Davie & Big Pine Key, FL Posts: 2,655	I worked with the kit yesterday and it was a PITA! It didn't remove the deep scratches and I had to constantly wash them to get the dust out. I went to HD and got some 320 sponges, now, of course the tank looks like hell and the deep scratches are a little better but not gone completely. I do a little every day, but I think I will eventually have to climb into the tank and do it from the inside, it's very tiring to stand on the ladder and bend down while sanding. Not to mention that I can't reach all the way down into it...... __________________ The cure for anything is salt water.....sweat, tears, or the sea. Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 265g

02/28/2006, 04:23 PM	#24
kurplunk Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 414	The process is very time consuming and like I said it takes a lot of steps depending on the scratches. The sand paper or micro mesh is very fine. It is a wetsand type of sandpaper and is used for fine metal polishing and things of that sort. The lowest grade i have started out with is 3200 not 320. As far as local availability the only luck you might have finding it would be at tap plastics or a specialty machine equipment shop. I have only purchased it online. Done right guaranteed results. I have to look up the name of the place I ordered from, it's been awhile, but i've recommended it to others with similar results. I'll let you know as soon as i find the invoice. You can also just do a search on google or something.

02/28/2006, 05:16 PM	#25
kurplunk Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 414	Go to www.etr-inc.com and you should find everything you need to know. Good Luck!