Hyposaline for my display tank

[lovelylinda]

Well. the fish have ich- it appears to be getting worse. Curses! So I'm going to move my coral and inverts to 2 20 gallons, set up the coralife fixture with 130 watts over them and hyposaline the main tank. All my corals are softies and lps. I've also parked some small corals in my daughter's nano cube. Any thoughts?

[cayars]

Yes, any invertibrate life on the live rock and live sand will be killed if you do this. You'll go through a cycle again after doing this and you're probably making a lot more work for yourself in the long run.

Pull the fish from the tank and do hypo if that's your choice of treatment in another tank. If you don't have a big enough tank you can always run down to HD or Lowes and pickup a 35 to 50 gallon trashcan (make sure it's one that doesn't leak - no wheels). Clean it out good to make sure there isn't residue in it and presto, new QT/Hospital tank for treatment. Of course you will need to have filtering and temperature control for the fishes. Lights aren't a big deal, during QT so just use what you have.

You'll need to leave the display tank empty of fish for 5 weeks or longer to kill off the ich parasites.

[Satori]

Linda, sorry to hear about the Ich. I know it sucks.
I agree, though, the life on the rock and in the sand probably will fare badly.
If I remember correctly, didn't you use live rock in a separate hypo QT tank in the past? The thing is, you never know how "live" it is in the end.

[lovelylinda]

I have always used base rock in the QT. Some bacteria die off, but not all and it still works as a filter. No matter what I do, I'll lose the cycle for a while. I've purchased bacteria to put in to help alleviate this. I just figured it would be easier to move the corals and inverts than to catch and move the 6 inch flying rocket with the poisonous spines- er, my foxface.

[McCrary]

Honestly, unless you already have a 55g QT that is permanently setup I wouldn't move the fish. From my work at Tropical Kingdom I have a lot of experience with fish with ich and the best thing you can do is just wait it out. Some fish are going to survive and some are not. My PBT has had ich since the day I got him and it has been months now. It has spread to my pair of clowns, but I don't change anything because they can often beat it on their own. Try soaking your foods in selcon and buying fresh garlic from the supermarket. Pulp the garlic and add it to the food. It will help the fish to eat and should help them fight the ich. The store bought additives will attract the fish to the food, but will not help them fight the ich. Fish can live for a very long time with ich as long as the water quality is good. Nothing goes farther to help a fish than having good consistent water quality. I fear if you were to try and move them it would do more harm than good.

[lovelylinda]

That's the point of moving the corals & inverts- so as not to stress the fish. I was going to wait it out, but the ich was much worse and had spread to the other fish. So now it's done- salinitry is down to 16 and I have 1 more water change to go- I've done one each day instead of every 12 hours. Ammonia 0- nitrites 0, ph 8.2 and nitrates are up to 20. I've been adding the bacteria daily. Corals look ok- not great. All inverts are alive & well in the 20 gallon, and my chili coral was fully open this am.

[olin]

Doing a hypo on the tank (sans corals) should work well. For die-off, the effects shouldn't be too bad, the bacteria take half strength just fine. What does croak will just go through the cycle, but the ammonia will be much less toxic at half strength SW than full strength. It can take 2-6 weeks to fully break the reproductive cycle of ich, but if the fish do survive, they will develop a memory B-cell immune response that is at least partially protective for the future, even if the ich isn't totally cleared from the system.

[Satori]

That's great info Olin, thanks!

[lovelylinda]

So far no ammonia or nitrites. I read on this forum that you can hyopsaline your display if it's a fowler- so if the corals, snails and starfish are out I guess it's a fowler. Oh, I also took out all the hermit crabs I could find.

[lovelylinda]

There are still hermit crabs in the main tank- seem to be doing fine. Ammonia 0.25 today- all else normal. I have to keep adding buff, the ph is unstable. I'm checking it twice a day. Mike, how long did it take for your tang to appeaf ich- free in hyposaline? My powder blue still has ich, although it appears gone from his eyes.

[Satori]

I think it was a few days, maybe a week. I really should keep a better record of these things.... I had 3 nassarius snails live through the 6 weeks of hypo.

[lovelylinda]

All of my Mexico inverts are surviving- the crabs from the hood!

[lovelylinda]

The corals aren't doing too well- all the leathers died and the water quality is crap- I just don't have enough light in there. I have a 4 foot 130 watt pc fixture over it, but the tank is inly 2 feet long. So I did a complete water change on the 20 gallon 2 days in a row, and removed all the leathers and the dissolving mushrooms. The mexican snails and hermits couldn't care less(LOL)

[lovelylinda]

20 days of salinity @ 1.010 of 15, and that #*&^% tang is still covered in ich. Am I low enough?

[fishaholic911]

Does the ick seem to be getting better or worse. I know you said he or she is still covered but what direction has the ick gone? I have had it a few times it is a bummer and the only thing that has worked for me is just to wait it out. Sometimes the less you do is less stress on everything besides normal water changes. Again this is just in my case It may not be the best way for everyone.I have found that my fish would get ick when another fish was stressing them out or a large change in water condition temp. being a big one. I hope all works out for you in the end.

[Satori]

What does "of 15" mean? When I did it, there were articles that said it must be 1.009 to work. Sorry to hear there's still ich. Mine was gone off the fish after 2 or 3 days.

[fishaholic911]

Mike, I did not understand the "of 15" ether I took it as 15 of the 20 days.

[owsi]

Sorry not to comment earlier, I was never into major treatment, I just let the fish ride it out. We use to use Vortex Filter (showing my age, lol) and raise the temp ( to speed the encysting cycle) with excellent results. I would raise the temp slowly (spread over a days time) to at least 82, preferably 85 if no heat sensitive critters such as Catalina Gobies. This will speed up and help kill the bugs. If you can find a Diatom filter somewhere, it will filter out the bugs after they hatch out and before they reattach to the host. I don't know if anyone still carries the Vortex Diatom Filter, they are great for polishing the water too. Just found it here
http://www.petsmart.com/global/produ...=1165770247573

[lovelylinda]

My refractometer reads 15 ppt or 1.010. The salinity has been at this level for 21 days. And I was going to wait it out with garlic, uv sterilizer, pristine water, ect, but all of the other fish got the ich, and I felt I needed to do something. No other fish have ich now, only the tang. So I'm wondering if I should go lower with the salinity. I will definitely get that filter, John,

[owsi]

I never tried Hypo, maybe someone else can answer that. How old is the UV bulb, they need to be changed every 10-12 month, sized for your water volume, proper flow rate thru it. Sounds like you are winning and just need to wait out the cycle of the remaining bugs on the tang. In the ocean its not a big deal, in our little ecosystems the bug reach saturation numbers quick. Well I got Rob bringing in a Powder Blue Tang for me, guess I'll order me a Vortex too. Just remember to feed your corals with the Vortex off if you run it for an extended time or they will starve, its that efficient

[cayars]

If you still see ich on the fish past 7 days then your "hypo" isn't working.

Most likely you aren't at 1.009. I myself don't like hypo because of the problems people have with calibration of refractometers and such.

First of all how did you calibrate your refractometer?
What reference solution did you use for the calibration?
At what temperature did you calibrate it?
What temperature is your current tank at?

Do you know anyone with a Pinpoint digital salinity meter you could borrow to check to see where your levels really are?

[olin]

There are also a few strains of ich that are getting a toehold in U.S. systems that are able to survive and multiply at even 11ppt. The D.E filters do a really nice job of breaking the reproductive cycle. If you are able to catch the tang in the morning or night (when more of the the trophonts are attached) and give it a formalin dip, that can speed the process as well.

[lovelylinda]

I calibrated the refractometer with ro. Tank temp is 79 and pretty much stays there. Maybe I'll take a water sample to Rob's along with the refractometer. I lowered the salinity today to 1.009. The UV bulb is new- I got a new one when the tang came. Oh, and the corals reside in my daughter's aquapod and another tank.

[lovelylinda]

So I checked out my refractometer @ Rob's. It's right on. I lowered the salinity to 1.007.

[Satori]

Wow, 1.007 sounds a little low. I saw some articles when I was dealing with the ich that said 1.008 was too low, and 1.010 was not effective. (1.009 being the target)

Do you have an auto topoff on the QT? If not, make sure you topoff often. Evaporation can increase the salinity to a level where the ich can regain a foothold.

Another good point that I'm sure you're aware of, is to monitor the pH. With decreased salinity, you get huge pH swings. I put the pinpoint meter on my QT, and had to keep buffering with washing soda to keep the pH up.