(Another) DIY LED Build - Linear Design

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by wardda

Hello,

Just wondering if anyone else has done a design like mine and if so if you are getting color separation (disco effect, white spots dancing with blue spots)? Which I would like to reduce or get rid of.

It seems that when I have blues only the tank looks great and uniform but when I turn on the whites I get white spots dancing with blue spots. I have 80 deg optics on all my leds on a standard 90 gallon.

I have 36 LEDs 12 XPG Whites at 1amp, and 24 XTE Royal Blues at .75amps 9" over the water with 80deg lenses in a linear configuration.

my config is 12 leds per 48" strip (B is royal blue, W is white, they are about 3" apart)
B-W-B-B-W-B-B-W-B-B-W-B (Strip 1)
B-W-B-B-W-B-B-W-B-B-W-B (Strip 2)
B-W-B-B-W-B-B-W-B-B-W-B (Strip 3)

Thanks

From the lay out you listed I see banding issues with the whites all lined up..
consider something like this

B W B B W B B W B B W B
B B W B B W B B W B B W
W B B W B B W B B W B B

The other thing I found is that I like the effect of not just using Royal Blues but mixing them up with Blue LED's. It gives a more true Blue effect rather than a Blue Purple effect.

Finaly Which Whites are you using. There are Neutral Whites that I prefer but if you compare the whites to get the same over all color effect you need

1 to 1 Blues to Cool Whites
2 to 1 Blues to Neutral Whites
3 to 1 Blues to Warm Whites (beware of a red cast)

I personly like either 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 with Neutral Whites.

[katchupoy]

@beginnersluckpg,

I think if you are going to do it my way, then you can do it step by step... I cant imagine how you are lighting your 95 wave. How are your T5 and VHO's arranged? Maybe buy 24 white LEDs for now to replace your MH?... Read on....

Anyways, lets see... you have 960 sq in of water surface area for the 95 wave. You will need LEDs from 48 (20 sq.in/led) to 60 (15 sq.in/led). And since your tank is deeper (top to bottom), I will recommend to go with the 60 LEDs.

So I guess you are more of a 10k-14k person... White but with a tint of blue... still very subjective though, my 14k will be different that your 14k... So maybe 2:1 or maybe 3:2? Lets say 40 Blue and 20 whites? or to make it by 12... 36 blue? and 24 white? I think that is very good combo...

Here is a diagram I created for you...



See that is 3:2... and you will notice that in the middle, there is a circle and triangle at the same time? That is if you feel you want to add more whites to the mix, this you might put it...

so buy 36 blues and 24 whites + 4 extra whites...? if that make sense? just in case you cannot decide about how blue you want or how white...

Now wit regards to coloring, whether cyan, blue or royal blues or WW, NW or CW... its up to you.... I will let you do some more research on that one... In my case, I have 4 CW that went out, so I replaced them with WW, and my RBTA (red corals) are very happy... Also if I may add, go with the dimmable drivers. Also, to give you more reading materials, Here are something to read about a simple controller.

Hope this helps...

[TropTrea]

I looked at your patern katchupy and I would definatly do things differently.

it looks like your using 3/4" channeling while I would use 2" channeling. The big difference is in cool surface area. With your spread of 3 1/4 inches between LED's with 3/4" channeling you are getting 14.square inches of cooling, however with 2" X 1" channeling and your 3 1/4" spacing you would get 26 square inches of cooling per Led. The normal recomendation is 16 square inches for 1 Watt LED's and 25 square inches for 3 watt LED's. However this is without fans.

Secondly the ratio of whites to blues will vary considerably by the type of White LED's your using. For that 12,000K effect you would want something like a 2 to 3 ratio of your using Cool whites, 1 to 1 ratio if your using neutral whites. and even a 2 to 1 ratio if your using warm whites.

I initialy did strips of one color but with a 3" spread between strips I was able to notice some color banding. I like to switch sets of LED's on one at a time to create a pre dawn, post dawn and midday effect. Idealy this looks best if you have a ratio of roughly
1 predawn LED, to 2 Dawn LED's to 3 Midday LED's. As well as changing the ratio from all Blues at Pre dawn to mostly blues at dawn, and your final ratio at midday. With the LED's lined up in rows by there colors this would not be practical in getting an even color distribution.

[katchupoy]

trop, of course, you can arrange it however you want it. That's the fun with DIY. Nothing is set in stone. And I'm sure the bigger the channel is the better. Its just that, that what's available on my HD store at that time for a price that is reasonable. Besides, heat is not an issue with my setup. Hovers around 100F at full intensity without using fan. Just warm when you touch the heat sink. Never had one either. Also with this setup, color banding is not an issue also. Its like strips of T5 or vho's when put together. Maybe the distance from the water is too close that's why you see spotlighting or the optics used is too narrow.. I don't now about how many sq inches of heatsink per LED. Care to give us a link? And thanks for the info....

[wardda]

Here is the actual setup that I have (more details):
B- Royal Blue (XTE's)
G- Green (XPE's I think)
C- Cool White (XP-G's)
N- Neutral White (XP-G's)

B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 1)
B-N-B-G-C-B-B-N-G-B-C-B (Row 2)
B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 3)

I'm thinking of going to
B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 1)
N-B-G-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-G-B (Row 2)
B-B-N-B-G-C-B-G-N-B-B-C (Row 3)
B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 4)

My questions are:
Is this too much Green?
Is there enough Red?
Should I replace some royal blues with blues?

Thanks,
Dan

Originally Posted by TropTrea

From the lay out you listed I see banding issues with the whites all lined up..
consider something like this

B W B B W B B W B B W B
B B W B B W B B W B B W
W B B W B B W B B W B B

The other thing I found is that I like the effect of not just using Royal Blues but mixing them up with Blue LED's. It gives a more true Blue effect rather than a Blue Purple effect.

Finaly Which Whites are you using. There are Neutral Whites that I prefer but if you compare the whites to get the same over all color effect you need

1 to 1 Blues to Cool Whites
2 to 1 Blues to Neutral Whites
3 to 1 Blues to Warm Whites (beware of a red cast)

I personly like either 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 with Neutral Whites.

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by wardda

Here is the actual setup that I have (more details):
B- Royal Blue (XTE's)
G- Green (XPE's I think)
C- Cool White (XP-G's)
N- Neutral White (XP-G's)

B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 1)
B-N-B-G-C-B-B-N-G-B-C-B (Row 2)
B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 3)

I'm thinking of going to
B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 1)
N-B-G-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-G-B (Row 2)
B-B-N-B-G-C-B-G-N-B-B-C (Row 3)
B-C-B-B-N-B-B-C-B-B-N-B (Row 4)

My questions are:
Is this too much Green?
Is there enough Red?
Should I replace some royal blues with blues?

Thanks,
Dan

I'[m not real found of the Cool Whites, and much less found of Warm Whites. I personly think the Neutrals are the best with the exception of the CRI-90's. But the CRI=90's are very hard to find at a reasonable price.

Royal Blues are Strong between 450 and 465 nm
Blues are strong between 465 and 485 nm
Cyan are strong from 490 to 510 nm
Greens are strong from 520 to 535 nm

All the whites lack light in the 490 to 500 nm range compared to what they put out at the other frequencies. So regardless wwhich whites you use a little boast in the 490 to 500 range is helpful.

Idealy with all the LED's running together you should have a strong peak in the 465 range and the total light should gradualy diminish as you go to longer wave lenght. If you graphed it, it should look more like slope than a straight line.

Looking at your set up I see no need for the green LED's as your whites should be doing a good job of covering this frequencies. I do think that some blues and Cyans would help you though. I'm running an equal number of blues and royal blues on my set ups to better cover the blue area. I'm also using a few Cyans but no greens.

[beginnersluckpg]

I think I'm going to use channeling I have found some already and I like the staggering of the colors for sure. As for my current lighting it's a nodded coralife pro fixture, as in out with pc in with t5's. I agree that. Like the blue look and just feel that red or acticnic colors are necessary in order to maintain my coral colors. The only with that fixture is I would have to mod it a bit if I go to a bigger tank. What if I build 3 pendants or modules and break things up. I could even build one bigger for the current wave setup and then just change the lenses when I go to a bigger tank. Does that seem sensible. Just trying to do things right the first time and it has taken oolong time to get my tank where it is, I'd not want any set backs. As for dimmable drivers definitely. I do have a aqua controller jr at the moment and definitely will be running the lights with a controller of some sort.

I think if you are going to do it my way, then you can do it step by step... I cant imagine how you are lighting your 95 wave. How are your T5 and VHO's arranged? Maybe buy 24 white LEDs for now to replace your MH?... Read on....

Anyways, lets see... you have 960 sq in of water surface area for the 95 wave. You will need LEDs from 48 (20 sq.in/led) to 60 (15 sq.in/led). And since your tank is deeper (top to bottom), I will recommend to go with the 60 LEDs.

So I guess you are more of a 10k-14k person... White but with a tint of blue... still very subjective though, my 14k will be different that your 14k... So maybe 2:1 or maybe 3:2? Lets say 40 Blue and 20 whites? or to make it by 12... 36 blue? and 24 white? I think that is very good combo...

Here is a diagram I created for you...



See that is 3:2... and you will notice that in the middle, there is a circle and triangle at the same time? That is if you feel you want to add more whites to the mix, this you might put it...

so buy 36 blues and 24 whites + 4 extra whites...? if that make sense? just in case you cannot decide about how blue you want or how white...

Now wit regards to coloring, whether cyan, blue or royal blues or WW, NW or CW... its up to you.... I will let you do some more research on that one... In my case, I have 4 CW that went out, so I replaced them with WW, and my RBTA (red corals) are very happy... Also if I may add, go with the dimmable drivers. Also, to give you more reading materials, Here are something to read about a simple controller.

Hope this helps...[/QUOTE]

[beginnersluckpg]

Just wondering if anyone has found any analysis or study showing the necessary ratios need to mimic actual sunlight?

[beginnersluckpg]

As well if I were to only go with this depth of fixture what optics should I run with leaving the 5 inch gap at the front and back of the tank so as to not get any spiraling

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by beginnersluckpg

Just wondering if anyone has found any analysis or study showing the necessary ratios need to mimic actual sunlight?

The lighting clossest to the shade outdoors on the surface of the water is actualy 7,200K Direct sunlight on the surface is closr to 5,000K. so you could say 100% neutral whites would come close to matching the surface of the ocean, and Cool White woulde come close to matching it on a partaly cloudy day.

But Corals do not live on the surface of the ocean. The deeper you go into the water the higher the precentage of longer wave lenght light (reds) is filtered out compared to the Blues. When you actualy get deep enough in the ocean the only light there is is actualy Blue light so you could say for deep water corals 100% blue LED's would be the closest.

Corals come from various levels in the Ocean so there needs realy vary. But in reality anything whiter than a about a 6 blue to 1 white ratio for any coral is just for personal taste of the person viewing the aquarium.

If you know any underwater photographers ask them how they take there pictures. Most will tell you with hoigh powered strobe lights to neutralize the all blue appearance that the camera would otherwise pick up.

[beginnersluckpg]

I have decided to build three modules and I will show you the plan over the next few days I'm horrible with graphics but I'll do my best thanks again guys. Looking forward to your comments.

Originally Posted by TropTrea

The lighting clossest to the shade outdoors on the surface of the water is actualy 7,200K Direct sunlight on the surface is closr to 5,000K. so you could say 100% neutral whites would come close to matching the surface of the ocean, and Cool White woulde come close to matching it on a partaly cloudy day.

But Corals do not live on the surface of the ocean. The deeper you go into the water the higher the precentage of longer wave lenght light (reds) is filtered out compared to the Blues. When you actualy get deep enough in the ocean the only light there is is actualy Blue light so you could say for deep water corals 100% blue LED's would be the closest.

Corals come from various levels in the Ocean so there needs realy vary. But in reality anything whiter than a about a 6 blue to 1 white ratio for any coral is just for personal taste of the person viewing the aquarium.

If you know any underwater photographers ask them how they take there pictures. Most will tell you with hoigh powered strobe lights to neutralize the all blue appearance that the camera would otherwise pick up.

[SWF]

Hi Ceasar,

Thank you so much for the list of stuff to buy...

Just one question .. do i need the potentiometer since i got BoostLed controller for
my setup ??

Also, could you please do me a favour. Can you please update your wiring diagram
to incorporate the boost led controller and post it. It would give me a idea on
to do my wiring and stuff. Hope you find some time for me ..

Thanks again for all your help.

[katchupoy]

SWF,

1. Potentiometer -
Yes - if you want to adjust intensity on the fly. Also useful if you want to do a show and tell with friends without reconfiguring the controller or the software. Also another thing is that if for some reason you want to disconnect the controller for maintenance or reprogramming, you can just plug in the lights with mech timer.

No - if you already have this demo mode as part of the program for show and tell. Also you can change intensity through software.

2. I will try and see, I'm not familiar with Boostled. I'm not sure if it uses PNP or NPN transistor. Maybe others can help here, others with experience with it. Or maybe ask them for schematic or wiring diagram.

Ceaar

[katchupoy]

double post...

[wardda]

Do you recommend any Reds or just Cyan to help bring out the pinks and reds?

Originally Posted by TropTrea

I'[m not real found of the Cool Whites, and much less found of Warm Whites. I personly think the Neutrals are the best with the exception of the CRI-90's. But the CRI=90's are very hard to find at a reasonable price.

Royal Blues are Strong between 450 and 465 nm
Blues are strong between 465 and 485 nm
Cyan are strong from 490 to 510 nm
Greens are strong from 520 to 535 nm

All the whites lack light in the 490 to 500 nm range compared to what they put out at the other frequencies. So regardless wwhich whites you use a little boast in the 490 to 500 range is helpful.

Idealy with all the LED's running together you should have a strong peak in the 465 range and the total light should gradualy diminish as you go to longer wave lenght. If you graphed it, it should look more like slope than a straight line.

Looking at your set up I see no need for the green LED's as your whites should be doing a good job of covering this frequencies. I do think that some blues and Cyans would help you though. I'm running an equal number of blues and royal blues on my set ups to better cover the blue area. I'm also using a few Cyans but no greens.

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by SWF

Hi Ceasar,

Thank you so much for the list of stuff to buy...

Just one question .. do i need the potentiometer since i got BoostLed controller for
my setup ??

Also, could you please do me a favour. Can you please update your wiring diagram
to incorporate the boost led controller and post it. It would give me a idea on
to do my wiring and stuff. Hope you find some time for me ..

Thanks again for all your help.

A word of caution here. If this is your first electronic DIY project do not immediately jump into something that is very complex. A straight forward LED set up is a nice simple way to go for a first project. But when your start building controllers you moving into an area that is not a beginner level but borderline between intermediate and advanced. I know of many people that started controller projects with electronic degrees and months later I got hired to straighten them out. While I'm not a beginner some of these projects turned into night mares, resulting in restarting them from scratch and costing the companies that hired me thousands of unneeded expenses.

You can get a fantastic LED set up with using multi driver and timers. Unless your going with a completely automated Reef system the controllers for just LED's are to me more of a show off item than practical from a functional stand point.

Once you realize what you like in your LED lighting you will not be reprogramming it. I'm a firm believer it keeping things simple and practical. The more complex something is the more possibilities of problems you will be running into unless you have extremely good trouble shooting skills.

I strongly advise to take this in steps.

Step one is getting you basic LED system working.

Step Two is then determine what bells and whistles you want and adding them one at a time.

[SWF]

Hi Caesar,

Thank you so much. I hope you could get sometime and put together a wiring diagram
using the controller. I am checking with BoostLed about the transistor and also have
requested a wirring diagram. Will keep you updated....

Hi Dennis,

Yes, its my first DIY electronics project. I was thinking in terms of the complexity in
have six potentiometers and the wiring that i would have to do. Also, the clutter it would
cause inside the poject box.
I thought maybe having the controller would be easy with wiring and less clutter..
dont you think so ?

Thanks again for all your inputs,

Best Regards

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by SWF

Hi Caesar,

Thank you so much. I hope you could get sometime and put together a wiring diagram
using the controller. I am checking with BoostLed about the transistor and also have
requested a wirring diagram. Will keep you updated....

Hi Dennis,

Yes, its my first DIY electronics project. I was thinking in terms of the complexity in
have six potentiometers and the wiring that i would have to do. Also, the clutter it would
cause inside the poject box.
I thought maybe having the controller would be easy with wiring and less clutter..
dont you think so ?

Thanks again for all your inputs,

Best Regards

Actualy the cluter is more of a matter on how you decide to route wires and can be a lot less withouth the controler.

With the Meanwell Drivers you can run one 10 volt power supply to all the potentiometers set up very neatly in a row. Then you just have the + Voltage wire going to each driver. The 1 Voltage wire can be common to all your drivers potentemters and the power supply.

If you wused maxwell drivers it is even simpler since you simply connect the pot to each driver. But the maxwell drivers are a little more difficult for a biginner to set up since they are considerably higher current and you would be probably running two series strings or more off each driver.

[katchupoy]

Originally Posted by SWF

have six potentiometers and the wiring that i would have to do.

Sorry I missed it again... why 6 pots? does this mean 6 channels?

I thought 2 x 36 = 6 drivers...

But in actuality, 6 drivers but 2 channel. 4 drivers for the blue side and 2 drivers for the white side... = 2 pots?

Am i understanding it correctly? Like this... correct?


or this...


or this...


Cesar

[katchupoy]

Originally Posted by TropTrea

Step one is getting you basic LED system working.

In addition to what Trop is saying. Dont worry if you dont have the controller. I had my system for two months without controller. Just regular timers.

Please see the first image i posted above. Thats the KISS approach.

Cesar

[TropTrea]

There are many configurations that can be done with the pots and drivers.

I personlly do not recommend the dimmable drivers unless someone has some special need for them. But yes you can put all the drivers on one pot, half the drivers on one pot etc. or any other combination including all the drivers on there own pot.

If one realy thinks dimmable is important I look at the aproach that then they could also put each driver n a seperate timer so that the banks of lights can be switched on in phases. Now you can set each bank seperately as well meat your personla taste. You can put one or 2 or more drivers on seperate timers. I personly like the idea of 10% of the LED's on timer 1, 30% on timer 2 and 60% on timer 3. What people also do not relaize is if keep the LED's in the same general series like XP, XT or XM you can easily mix colors on a single driver. So you could run say 6 XP-E Royal Blue and 8 XP-E Blues on a single driver for a pre dawn to post dusk effect.

Realy you keep things as simple or as complicated as you want to go. For someone with limited electrical experience and this being there first LED project I would not even suggest thinking about adding dimmable drivers initialy. The schematic I put up was for someone that not only wanted dimmable but also wanted to be able to diggitaly monitor the current on each driver. If you do not need that then you can even eliminate the 1 ohm resistors to keep it simpler yet.

[wardda]

For someone who doesn't have a par meter how do you know when your LED lighting is too bright? I have listed my setup on here in the past 24 xt-e (.75 amp) royal blue and 6 xpg CW 6 xpg NW (1amp) 9" over the water. I have them at about 80% over a 90g with 80 deg lenses on three 48" strips about 3 inches apart. When just the blues are on at 80% it is crazy bright, almost painful to look at. It doesn't seem to be quite as bad with the whites on, but I'm just wondering if I'm just not used to how bright leds are or if I have them running too bright?

Thanks,
Dan

[katchupoy]

Wardda, dont look at it without optics... even without optics... they are really bright...
Start slow, adjust your tank corals to it... and bump up slowly... everything will be dictated by your tank inhabitants... observe really carefully how they react....

Cesar

[katchupoy]

Trop I'm not sure why you don't like dimmable drivers. Is it because of cost? For a few more dollars? I rather have the dimmanle.

is it because of complexity? I don't think so. You can use it like a non-dimmable driver and just using mechanical timers and be done with it. I don't see any complexity in that. The only difference is that the ELN dimmables needs a 10 volt signal. Hard to find you say? Ok then use 9 volts. As long as its regulated you will be fine.

but with dimmable, you can adjust your intensity. Very very important when introducing corals to new light. Its like putting several layers of screen at a time and removing them every week.

Also you can adjust the total color temperature of your light. To blue? Let me turn it down a little bit.... To white? Hmm. Let me adjust that one then. Hmmmm too bright? Let me run the light at 50% for the next 4 weeks.

so many advantages, that not even adding the controller.

with controller.... Well, my number one reason is the ramp up and down. No more instant on and instant off. No more fishes going crazy every time light turns on or off. Even with the very basic 10 step ramp up and down is a huge plus.... Its so cool to see the coral react to intensities.. Specially at the last 30 minutes of my schedule where every 6 min my light go down 10%, you can actually see corals reacting to it and settling down and getting smaller every 10% step... To me that's really cool...

and like I said before. If you don't have a controller... Its all good since it will work without controller too. But it doesn't mean that you won't have a controller in the near future....

hope this makes sense.

[wardda]

Originally Posted by katchupoy

Wardda, dont look at it without optics... even without optics... they are really bright...
Start slow, adjust your tank corals to it... and bump up slowly... everything will be dictated by your tank inhabitants... observe really carefully how they react....

Cesar

Cesar,

Thanks, I'm not looking at the led's, I'm looking at the tank. I'll ramp it down a bit and start moving my coral from my frag tank to my display and slowly ramp up and see how they do. Thanks for the advice.

Dan