300 gallon fish aggression issue with tang

afm32607 · 07/10/2018, 08:16 AM

I have a 300 gallon tank and have had a black tang in there as the most dominant and largest fish for quite some time.

I recently introduced a copperband butterfly to the tank after QT. As luck would have it the tang killed the poor thing in a few hours. Technically it took three days, but the copperband was skewered and when I returned her to QT she refused to eat, which is not surprising.

I now have a batfish in QT that is ready to move over to the main tank, I do not want to have this fish hurt. So for the past two weeks I have been trying to get the black tang out. This weekend is my last attempt at a trap before I have to dismantle the tank.

I have owned the black tang for 3+ years and he has survived the transition from an old 120 to the current 300. When I bought him I got him for a great price but I do not wish to give him away. However, I want to add the rest of my fish, including the batfish that has been in a too small QT tank for months.

Is there anyway to see if the tangs aggression will go away towards any particular fish? i.e. if I put batfish in an acclimation container for a couple days and the tang ignores the container will he ignore the new fish? Or is he just afraid of the container? Does anyone have 100% success with that?

As a note, the tang was added before the wrasse, both dwarf angles, the spotted puffer, and the hawkfish. No aggression towards any of them at any time.

Current residents:
Flame Angel
Potters Angel
3x lyretail anthais
2x Occ. Clowns
2x blue chromis
Longnose Hawk
Blue Spotted Toby
Black Tang
Lunate Wrasse

Residents I would like to Include:
Orbiculate Batfish
Raccoon Butterfly
Copperband Butterfly
Emperor/Scribbled/Annularis/Queen/Golden Angel (just haven't decided)
Additional Small Wrasse (3 or 5)

Khazmodain · 07/10/2018, 09:36 AM

I also have had issues with tang aggression in my system. I have a 6-7" powder blue in my 400g who is an absolute terror to any newcomer. One thing that has helped a ton is taping some reflective material onto the side of the tank when I introduce a new fish. The powder blue will literally spend days attacking his reflection while the new inhabitants get acclimated. He also doesn't seem to go after them once the reflective material is removed.

May be worth a try.

afm32607 · 07/10/2018, 09:46 AM

Might be as a last resort.

Tearing down the tank is in no way appealing. Hundreds of pounds of live rock would need to be re-positioned, then re-glued, epoxied, and ziptied (but not in that order. I shudder to think about it.

VanJuKy · 07/11/2018, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khazmodain

the thing that has helped a ton is taping some reflective material onto the side of the tank when I introduce a new fish. The powder blue will literally spend days attacking his reflection while the new inhabitants get acclimated.

This. I have done it with tangs in the past using a mirror.

Once I had to remove a small Naso that was beating up a large one (twice its size)

. Put the small one back in after a couple of weeks with no problem..

I found the clear plastic fish traps are excellent.

R1ant04 · 07/11/2018, 10:22 PM

Mirror on the side of the tank works for me when adding new fish.....my Powder brown stays busy trying to kill his reflection.

McPuff · 07/12/2018, 06:17 AM

I had forgotten about the mirror trick... wondering if it will also work with my annularis angel. I've had a blueface angel in an acclimation box for two months but I'm afraid that it'll still get pummeled when I release him. The annularis will pick at the box still!

Another consideration is to use egg crate/light diffuser to separate the tank (if possible) for a month or so. This should also help if the mirror does not. At least you wouldn't have to tear down the tank... maybe just move a few rocks?

Steve175 · 07/15/2018, 01:43 AM

I have a 10" emporator in my frag tank. He was snacking on my prize carpet anemone in one of my DTs. He was the king of the block/afraid of no one. After zero luck with traps [even, ridiculously, hiding behind the couch], I caught him with a pole, a tiny hook, and a piece of shrimp in ~ 5 min. . . He is still ****ed at me tho . . . If you know any fishermen/women, I would try this before the nuclear [everything out] option.

McPuff · 07/16/2018, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve175

I have a 10" emporator in my frag tank. He was snacking on my prize carpet anemone in one of my DTs. He was the king of the block/afraid of no one. After zero luck with traps [even, ridiculously, hiding behind the couch], I caught him with a pole, a tiny hook, and a piece of shrimp in ~ 5 min. . . He is still ****ed at me tho . . . If you know any fishermen/women, I would try this before the nuclear [everything out] option.

++ this works really well for an aggressive feeder. You don't even need a pole actually. :0) I've caught damsels, tangs, angels this way and they are always fine afterward. Just make sure to pinch the barb flat.

Crusty Old Shellback · 07/16/2018, 07:32 AM

About the only way to stop it will be to remove the tang for a while.
I had a pair of Naso's in my 400 and never had issues with them or adding other fish with similar body shape. I later added a Sohal tang that was half their size. For the longest time, there were no issues. But as the Sohal got bigger, he did harass the Naso's from time to time. But nothing serious. My Pink Tail Trigger was the boss of the tank so that may have had something to do with the less aggression.

But on another note, you do realize that the bat fish gets HUGE and the 300 will be way to small. Plus once they grow to adult, the beautiful long fins that you see on him now will be gone along with the colors.

afm32607 · 07/16/2018, 08:20 AM

most research has 300 gallon being more than enough for a batfish. Most sources say between 180 and 300 gallons. I have found nothing saying they need more. Also, I am aware of the color change, but I didn't buy for the colors, I bought for the behavior.

If need be I can find another place to put him, or turn the pool into a lagoon.

MyMocha · 07/16/2018, 09:09 AM

When I had my 300, and was adding a new fish that would potentially get injured/killed by my kingpens: 11 yr old orange shoulder tang & foxface rabbit team, I would set up my spare 20 gal and plop them in there together for 2 days. Always worked. Little humbling for them. Obviously you have to pay serious attention to water parameters.

Catching them was always a nightmare... but that's when I would change up the scenery also to distract my bullies a little when they went back home.
Worked like a charm!! I rarely added new fish so the big "to "do" at least didnt happen very often.

I love the mirror trick!!!! Wish I'd thought of trying that instead!

Side note to Crusty: a Moorish Idol for 4 years !!!! That is awesome. Speaks to your expertise and good husbandry.
I had one too... Tiki. He died at almost exactly 1 year.. a little over. He was thriving. I thought I'd get him/others a treat and ordered different types of planted algae to put in sand for pecking at. One of them was to be slightly toxic, but "guaranteed " that fish only peck a little at it once in a while. A little is good for them....
Well he ate the entire thing the afternoon I planted them and was dead in the morning.
Yes I cried like a lil girl. I always wonder how long he would've lived if I hadn't made that mistake. Sigh. They are so majestic and beautiful!

MyMocha · 07/16/2018, 09:20 AM

What type of batfish do you have?

Crusty Old Shellback · 07/16/2018, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyMocha

Side note to Crusty: a Moorish Idol for 4 years !!!! That is awesome. Speaks to your expertise and good husbandry.
I had one too... Tiki. He died at almost exactly 1 year.. a little over. He was thriving. I thought I'd get him/others a treat and ordered different types of planted algae to put in sand for pecking at. One of them was to be slightly toxic, but "guaranteed " that fish only peck a little at it once in a while. A little is good for them....
Well he ate the entire thing the afternoon I planted them and was dead in the morning.
Yes I cried like a lil girl. I always wonder how long he would've lived if I hadn't made that mistake. Sigh. They are so majestic and beautiful!

Thanks. The only reason I lost him was I lost power to my skimmer pumps some time in the night. Skimmer was 4 feet tall and run by 3 sedra 5000's. GFCI tripped due to salt corrosion. I woke up at 3 in the morning to dead silence. They basically suffocated due to lack of oxygen. I lost 10 fish during that fiasco, my 8+ year old pair of naso tangs, Copper Banded Butterfly that ate pellets, Gold Flake angel and a few others. The MI was great and not shy, when I would put my hands in the tank to clean it, he would come over to see what I was doing. Always loved that fish. It was hard for me to rebuild. Took me about a year to recover and get the tank back up and in shape. But alas, the tank is now gone. One day, I'll set up another one.

A bat fish can reach 18". If you can keep him to adult hood, he will reach that. My Naso's were 12" and in a 7' long, 400G tank, they did OK but you could tell they would like more swimming room, even though there was only 2 rock "islands" in the tank. I think that was also why my MI did so good, plenty of swimming room. You may find a 300 G to be a bit small when he reaches his full potential.

MyMocha · 07/16/2018, 10:25 AM

A bat fish can reach 18". If you can keep him to adult hood, he will reach that. My Naso's were 12" and in a 7' long, 400G tank, they did OK but you could tell they would like more swimming room, even though there was only 2 rock "islands" in the tank. I think that was also why my MI did so good, plenty of swimming room. You may find a 300 G to be a bit small when he reaches his full potential.[/QUOTE]
Losing fish of that age/stable environment is just plain painful. Had to break down my 300 because We couldn't fit my 300 through the doors on our new house a couple yrs ago. Almost didn't buy the house. ..

And I agree with Crusty on the batfish. He may fit, but not thrive once he grows. My fish were 12-13 in. As well. I had two rock formations in MIDDLE of tank so they could circle the tank.
But you'll just have to watch him grow $ see how he does!

I'm very curious about the type of batfish he is...

MyMocha · 07/16/2018, 10:27 AM

I dont know what I'm doing on this site. I'm new. What the heck. Was trying to "quote" crusty. I quit...lol

afm32607 · 07/19/2018, 02:09 PM

It’s an orbiculate baitfish. Currently 4-5” top to bottom. I do want to keep the tang, but I do not want to catch him out constantly. I have three to four more large fish I want to add in 2-3 phases. That would mean a lot of catching, which is a HUGE pain, as you note. So I was going to see what alternative people used in introducing new fish. Cutting off a third of the tank seems to work, but the trap door needs to be improved.

MyMocha · 07/20/2018, 08:59 AM

Are you going to try the mirror thing? If I was to have a do-over with my large tank( how I wish), I'd put in a separation device and add a mirror to see if that worked.

afm32607 · 07/20/2018, 09:36 AM

i Hate the idea of adding a second stressor (mirror), however my rock structure was set up for two separate islands so, I do plan to put together a removable barrier and leave it in for a couple weeks. I'll post the results here when I get them.

afm32607 · 07/20/2018, 09:37 AM

Hopefully, the tang wont just find a way around the barrier and then trap them both in the smaller section....

07/10/2018, 08:16 AM	#1
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	300 gallon fish aggression issue with tang I have a 300 gallon tank and have had a black tang in there as the most dominant and largest fish for quite some time. I recently introduced a copperband butterfly to the tank after QT. As luck would have it the tang killed the poor thing in a few hours. Technically it took three days, but the copperband was skewered and when I returned her to QT she refused to eat, which is not surprising. I now have a batfish in QT that is ready to move over to the main tank, I do not want to have this fish hurt. So for the past two weeks I have been trying to get the black tang out. This weekend is my last attempt at a trap before I have to dismantle the tank. I have owned the black tang for 3+ years and he has survived the transition from an old 120 to the current 300. When I bought him I got him for a great price but I do not wish to give him away. However, I want to add the rest of my fish, including the batfish that has been in a too small QT tank for months. Is there anyway to see if the tangs aggression will go away towards any particular fish? i.e. if I put batfish in an acclimation container for a couple days and the tang ignores the container will he ignore the new fish? Or is he just afraid of the container? Does anyone have 100% success with that? As a note, the tang was added before the wrasse, both dwarf angles, the spotted puffer, and the hawkfish. No aggression towards any of them at any time. Current residents: Flame Angel Potters Angel 3x lyretail anthais 2x Occ. Clowns 2x blue chromis Longnose Hawk Blue Spotted Toby Black Tang Lunate Wrasse Residents I would like to Include: Orbiculate Batfish Raccoon Butterfly Copperband Butterfly Emperor/Scribbled/Annularis/Queen/Golden Angel (just haven't decided) Additional Small Wrasse (3 or 5)

07/15/2018, 01:43 AM	#7
Steve175 Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 1,186	I have a 10" emporator in my frag tank. He was snacking on my prize carpet anemone in one of my DTs. He was the king of the block/afraid of no one. After zero luck with traps [even, ridiculously, hiding behind the couch], I caught him with a pole, a tiny hook, and a piece of shrimp in ~ 5 min. . . He is still ****ed at me tho . . . If you know any fishermen/women, I would try this before the nuclear [everything out] option. __________________ Steve ---------------------------------- Current Tank Info: 2 separate 250G bowfront rimless ELOS tanks plumbed to 260G sump, 220G refugium, 220G frag, BK DeLuxe 300, 400W MH x4, closed loops, 3/4hp chiller x2, Phos reactor, Kalk reactor, Charcoal reactor, Ca reactor, 60G surge tanks, & a huge elec bill

07/16/2018, 07:32 AM	#9
Crusty Old Shellback MASVC OG Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Home of the FREE, Thanks to the BRAVE! Posts: 5,089	About the only way to stop it will be to remove the tang for a while. I had a pair of Naso's in my 400 and never had issues with them or adding other fish with similar body shape. I later added a Sohal tang that was half their size. For the longest time, there were no issues. But as the Sohal got bigger, he did harass the Naso's from time to time. But nothing serious. My Pink Tail Trigger was the boss of the tank so that may have had something to do with the less aggression. But on another note, you do realize that the bat fish gets HUGE and the 300 will be way to small. Plus once they grow to adult, the beautiful long fins that you see on him now will be gone along with the colors. __________________ Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day? Best quote ever! "This is a hobby for God sakes and so many people get so uptite. A "hobby" so it should be fun and not a cause to worry or go broke." Paul B Current Tank Info: Tankless for a while. RIP my 8+ yr old pair of Naso tangs, 4 + yr old Moorish Idol

07/16/2018, 09:09 AM	#11
MyMocha Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 68	When I had my 300, and was adding a new fish that would potentially get injured/killed by my kingpens: 11 yr old orange shoulder tang & foxface rabbit team, I would set up my spare 20 gal and plop them in there together for 2 days. Always worked. Little humbling for them. Obviously you have to pay serious attention to water parameters. Catching them was always a nightmare... but that's when I would change up the scenery also to distract my bullies a little when they went back home. Worked like a charm!! I rarely added new fish so the big "to "do" at least didnt happen very often. I love the mirror trick!!!! Wish I'd thought of trying that instead! Side note to Crusty: a Moorish Idol for 4 years !!!! That is awesome. Speaks to your expertise and good husbandry. I had one too... Tiki. He died at almost exactly 1 year.. a little over. He was thriving. I thought I'd get him/others a treat and ordered different types of planted algae to put in sand for pecking at. One of them was to be slightly toxic, but "guaranteed " that fish only peck a little at it once in a while. A little is good for them.... Well he ate the entire thing the afternoon I planted them and was dead in the morning. Yes I cried like a lil girl. I always wonder how long he would've lived if I hadn't made that mistake. Sigh. They are so majestic and beautiful! __________________ New 32gal Coralife Bio future softie reef, with DSB Beloved 300gal softie reef RIP 2016 "OOPS! 🤔 Regroup, seek suggestions, learn, Go! Current Tank Info: 32 Gal coralife biocube DSB for Jawfish

07/16/2018, 09:20 AM	#12
MyMocha Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 68	What type of batfish do you have? __________________ New 32gal Coralife Bio future softie reef, with DSB Beloved 300gal softie reef RIP 2016 "OOPS! 🤔 Regroup, seek suggestions, learn, Go! Current Tank Info: 32 Gal coralife biocube DSB for Jawfish

07/10/2018, 09:36 AM	#2
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	I also have had issues with tang aggression in my system. I have a 6-7" powder blue in my 400g who is an absolute terror to any newcomer. One thing that has helped a ton is taping some reflective material onto the side of the tank when I introduce a new fish. The powder blue will literally spend days attacking his reflection while the new inhabitants get acclimated. He also doesn't seem to go after them once the reflective material is removed. May be worth a try.

07/10/2018, 09:46 AM	#3
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	Might be as a last resort. Tearing down the tank is in no way appealing. Hundreds of pounds of live rock would need to be re-positioned, then re-glued, epoxied, and ziptied (but not in that order. I shudder to think about it.

07/11/2018, 10:22 PM	#5
R1ant04 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 232	Mirror on the side of the tank works for me when adding new fish.....my Powder brown stays busy trying to kill his reflection.

07/12/2018, 06:17 AM	#6
McPuff Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,735	I had forgotten about the mirror trick... wondering if it will also work with my annularis angel. I've had a blueface angel in an acclimation box for two months but I'm afraid that it'll still get pummeled when I release him. The annularis will pick at the box still! Another consideration is to use egg crate/light diffuser to separate the tank (if possible) for a month or so. This should also help if the mirror does not. At least you wouldn't have to tear down the tank... maybe just move a few rocks?

07/16/2018, 08:20 AM	#10
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	most research has 300 gallon being more than enough for a batfish. Most sources say between 180 and 300 gallons. I have found nothing saying they need more. Also, I am aware of the color change, but I didn't buy for the colors, I bought for the behavior. If need be I can find another place to put him, or turn the pool into a lagoon.

07/16/2018, 10:25 AM	#14
MyMocha Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 68	A bat fish can reach 18". If you can keep him to adult hood, he will reach that. My Naso's were 12" and in a 7' long, 400G tank, they did OK but you could tell they would like more swimming room, even though there was only 2 rock "islands" in the tank. I think that was also why my MI did so good, plenty of swimming room. You may find a 300 G to be a bit small when he reaches his full potential.[/QUOTE] Losing fish of that age/stable environment is just plain painful. Had to break down my 300 because We couldn't fit my 300 through the doors on our new house a couple yrs ago. Almost didn't buy the house. .. And I agree with Crusty on the batfish. He may fit, but not thrive once he grows. My fish were 12-13 in. As well. I had two rock formations in MIDDLE of tank so they could circle the tank. But you'll just have to watch him grow $ see how he does! I'm very curious about the type of batfish he is... __________________ New 32gal Coralife Bio future softie reef, with DSB Beloved 300gal softie reef RIP 2016 "OOPS! 🤔 Regroup, seek suggestions, learn, Go! Current Tank Info: 32 Gal coralife biocube DSB for Jawfish

07/16/2018, 10:27 AM	#15
MyMocha Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 68	I dont know what I'm doing on this site. I'm new. What the heck. Was trying to "quote" crusty. I quit...lol __________________ New 32gal Coralife Bio future softie reef, with DSB Beloved 300gal softie reef RIP 2016 "OOPS! 🤔 Regroup, seek suggestions, learn, Go! Current Tank Info: 32 Gal coralife biocube DSB for Jawfish

07/19/2018, 02:09 PM	#16
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	It’s an orbiculate baitfish. Currently 4-5” top to bottom. I do want to keep the tang, but I do not want to catch him out constantly. I have three to four more large fish I want to add in 2-3 phases. That would mean a lot of catching, which is a HUGE pain, as you note. So I was going to see what alternative people used in introducing new fish. Cutting off a third of the tank seems to work, but the trap door needs to be improved.

07/20/2018, 08:59 AM	#17
MyMocha Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 68	Are you going to try the mirror thing? If I was to have a do-over with my large tank( how I wish), I'd put in a separation device and add a mirror to see if that worked. __________________ New 32gal Coralife Bio future softie reef, with DSB Beloved 300gal softie reef RIP 2016 "OOPS! 🤔 Regroup, seek suggestions, learn, Go! Current Tank Info: 32 Gal coralife biocube DSB for Jawfish

07/20/2018, 09:36 AM	#18
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	i Hate the idea of adding a second stressor (mirror), however my rock structure was set up for two separate islands so, I do plan to put together a removable barrier and leave it in for a couple weeks. I'll post the results here when I get them.

07/20/2018, 09:37 AM	#19
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	Hopefully, the tang wont just find a way around the barrier and then trap them both in the smaller section....