Vinegar “shelf life’

shellsea · 11/06/2017, 07:28 PM

Perhaps a dumb question but I was wondering about all the gallons and gallons of vinegar I throw away after various pump cleanings. Could it be stored and repurposed a couple of times? I realize it is not as expensive as so many other things in our hobby, but every penny adds up. Your thoughts?

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SammyL · 11/06/2017, 07:39 PM

I reuse mine but do a quick filter of it before I place it back in the containers.

bertoni · 11/06/2017, 08:02 PM

That's hard to determine. Once the pH rises, bacteria might start growing in what's left. Personally, I'd just pitch it, but I used 10:1 diluted vinegar for cleaning most larger items. Do you have a pH meter that take pH 4 and 7 calibration fluids?

shellsea · 11/06/2017, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

That's hard to determine. Once the pH rises, bacteria might start growing in what's left. Personally, I'd just pitch it, but I used 10:1 diluted vinegar for cleaning most larger items. Do you have a pH meter that take pH 4 and 7 calibration fluids?

Yes I have 2 ph probes connected to my Archon.

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tmz · 11/07/2017, 10:19 AM

FYI, the pH of 5% acetic acid vinegar is around 2.4. Most bacteria grow best at pH values in the nuetral range (7.0 give or take) Some can tolerate pH as low as 1.0. I reuse vinegar for cleaning from time to time but not for dosing.

bertoni · 11/07/2017, 01:30 PM

Okay, with the a pH meter, you could try keeping the vinegar if the pH is above 4 or so. I'd be careful about mold growing, though. They can survive a lot. I'd watch the container and discard as needed.

blasterman789 · 11/08/2017, 06:03 PM

Or just dilute muriatic as needed rather than storing gallons of smelly acetic acid.

You guys also save your shampoo for reuse? lol

bertoni · 11/08/2017, 07:46 PM

I should have said, "as long as the pH is less than 4". More acidic solutions will give a better chance of stopping any growth.

tmz · 11/09/2017, 12:52 AM

Muriatic acid is much stronger , requires care and ventilation as the fumes are harmful. It is useful for large cleanups like tanks taken outside . For pump cleaning a soak in 50% vinegar and 50% water is strong enough , convenient and affords less risk to the user , the household and the pump seals. Obviously, covering / capping the muriatic acid or vinegar is prudent ; more so for the muriatic acid. Using stronger acid to clean a a pump would be like washing your hair with bleach and or or lye. I usually use a plastic coffee can to soak pump parts .If I'm doing several pumps or othr equipment over the course of a few days reuse works ok.

shellsea · 11/10/2017, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmz

Muriatic acid is much stronger , requires care and ventilation as the fumes are harmful. It is useful for large cleanups like tanks taken outside . For pump cleaning a soak in 50% vinegar and 50% water is strong enough , convenient and affords less risk to the user , the household and the pump seals. Obviously, covering / capping the muriatic acid or vinegar is prudent ; more so for the muriatic acid. Using stronger acid to clean a a pump would be like washing your hair with bleach and or or lye. I usually use a plastic coffee can to soak pump parts .If I'm doing several pumps or othr equipment over the course of a few days reuse works ok.

Thanks Tom. An intelligent answer as always. I appreciate your input.

pinnatus · 11/10/2017, 08:36 AM

If you keep the vinegar too long it will turn to wine.

tmz · 11/10/2017, 10:07 AM

I think it's the other way around; ethanol oxidizes to acetic acid.

Shellsea, you are welcome.

One other note: when using acetic acid ( vinegar in this case) to clean it dissolves precipitated calcium carbonate from abiotic precipitation, coraline algae buildups etc.;as it does so the acid is neutralized in adtion to CO2 weakening it.

pinnatus · 11/10/2017, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinnatus

If you keep the vinegar too long it will turn to wine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmz

I think it's the other way around; ethanol oxidizes to acetic acid.

Bummer. I thought I had a great business idea for a second.

Guess I needed to use the sarcasm font.

Ron Reefman · 11/13/2017, 07:24 AM

I re-use vinegar all the time. I do filter it into a separate bottle to store. At some point it doesn't work as well as it should and I pitch it. But I have also used muriatic acid mixed 1 part acid to 10 parts water and it's just a bit stronger than the straight vinegar. And in it's mixed form it's cheaper than buying a gallon of vinegar. A gallon bottle of muriatic acid costs more than a gallon of vinegar, but it makes 10 gallons when mixed to equal vinegar.

netsequent · 11/17/2017, 10:35 AM

I recently dosed .25ml of vinegar 2 days in a new 50G system as an effort to normalize elevated Alk ad Ca in a new tank and see what effect it would have on PO4 at .5 ppm while I waited for my rowaphos, ozoneator, refugium substrate to arrive. Although I found the desired parameter change, I also found a huge cyanobacteria outbreak. I think all these elevated levels came as a result of hyper wet skimming and readjusting salinity with water changes. At this point the rowaphos will be online in a day or so but I'm also looking for a chloride based additive that won't effect Ca, Alk, of Mg.

11/06/2017, 07:28 PM	#1
shellsea Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Destin, Fl. Posts: 479	Vinegar “shelf life’ Perhaps a dumb question but I was wondering about all the gallons and gallons of vinegar I throw away after various pump cleanings. Could it be stored and repurposed a couple of times? I realize it is not as expensive as so many other things in our hobby, but every penny adds up. Your thoughts? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk __________________ Jack "Shellsea" 120 mixed reef, Reef Breeder Photon 48, Apex and a proud owner of a Lifereef Skimmer

11/06/2017, 07:39 PM	#2
SammyL Reefer Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Mohnton, PA Posts: 313	I reuse mine but do a quick filter of it before I place it back in the containers. __________________ Sammy Current Tank Info: 180 DT, 705 Hydor Skimmer, 55 gallong sump with fuge, 2 x Lumentek 240 Pro

11/06/2017, 08:02 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	That's hard to determine. Once the pH rises, bacteria might start growing in what's left. Personally, I'd just pitch it, but I used 10:1 diluted vinegar for cleaning most larger items. Do you have a pH meter that take pH 4 and 7 calibration fluids? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/07/2017, 10:19 AM	#5
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	FYI, the pH of 5% acetic acid vinegar is around 2.4. Most bacteria grow best at pH values in the nuetral range (7.0 give or take) Some can tolerate pH as low as 1.0. I reuse vinegar for cleaning from time to time but not for dosing. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

11/07/2017, 01:30 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Okay, with the a pH meter, you could try keeping the vinegar if the pH is above 4 or so. I'd be careful about mold growing, though. They can survive a lot. I'd watch the container and discard as needed. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/08/2017, 06:03 PM	#7
blasterman789 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 365	Or just dilute muriatic as needed rather than storing gallons of smelly acetic acid. You guys also save your shampoo for reuse? lol

11/08/2017, 07:46 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I should have said, "as long as the pH is less than 4". More acidic solutions will give a better chance of stopping any growth. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/09/2017, 12:52 AM	#9
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Muriatic acid is much stronger , requires care and ventilation as the fumes are harmful. It is useful for large cleanups like tanks taken outside . For pump cleaning a soak in 50% vinegar and 50% water is strong enough , convenient and affords less risk to the user , the household and the pump seals. Obviously, covering / capping the muriatic acid or vinegar is prudent ; more so for the muriatic acid. Using stronger acid to clean a a pump would be like washing your hair with bleach and or or lye. I usually use a plastic coffee can to soak pump parts .If I'm doing several pumps or othr equipment over the course of a few days reuse works ok. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

11/10/2017, 08:36 AM	#11
pinnatus RIP Ludinano Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,572	If you keep the vinegar too long it will turn to wine. __________________ - Ken Current Tank Info: 240 gal Fish-Only, 13-gal w/ clowns

11/10/2017, 10:07 AM	#12
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I think it's the other way around; ethanol oxidizes to acetic acid. Shellsea, you are welcome. One other note: when using acetic acid ( vinegar in this case) to clean it dissolves precipitated calcium carbonate from abiotic precipitation, coraline algae buildups etc.;as it does so the acid is neutralized in adtion to CO2 weakening it. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

11/13/2017, 07:24 AM	#14
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	I re-use vinegar all the time. I do filter it into a separate bottle to store. At some point it doesn't work as well as it should and I pitch it. But I have also used muriatic acid mixed 1 part acid to 10 parts water and it's just a bit stronger than the straight vinegar. And in it's mixed form it's cheaper than buying a gallon of vinegar. A gallon bottle of muriatic acid costs more than a gallon of vinegar, but it makes 10 gallons when mixed to equal vinegar. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

11/17/2017, 10:35 AM	#15
netsequent Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 28	I recently dosed .25ml of vinegar 2 days in a new 50G system as an effort to normalize elevated Alk ad Ca in a new tank and see what effect it would have on PO4 at .5 ppm while I waited for my rowaphos, ozoneator, refugium substrate to arrive. Although I found the desired parameter change, I also found a huge cyanobacteria outbreak. I think all these elevated levels came as a result of hyper wet skimming and readjusting salinity with water changes. At this point the rowaphos will be online in a day or so but I'm also looking for a chloride based additive that won't effect Ca, Alk, of Mg.