Blue ringed octopus - Page 7

serpentman · 12/06/2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samdaman

Hmm I was wondering because If some animal eats it, It HAS to encounter the poison in some time during eating it. I saw this video too so thats why I was thinking about it. You can see it getting dark blue and its probably attacking too..

Their is a difference between poisonous and venomous. Poison is ingested and designed to be absorbed through the mucous membranes and/or digestive system to cause a reaction. Venom is injected into tissue or bloodstream to cause a systematic reaction.

It is entirely feasible you can drink a venom with no ill effects, provided the particular venom isn't designed to cross a membrane. If so, the digestive system would then quickly break down the proteins rendering it harmless. However, I don't recommend experimenting as this isn't always the case, lol.

Furthermore, the reverse does not usually apply. Poisons tend to be effective whether ingested or injected, which is why poison "dart" frogs were used in making poison darts and arrows.

Verge · 12/16/2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nixer

only 3 different poison dart frogs that are deadly. that is out of over 200. the rest supposedly just numb you or cause your mouth to burn. also its only the mucous the frog excretes that is poisonous. also the frog does not produce the toxins itself. the toxins come from plants that their foods have eaten. in captivity they loose this

Right, not toxic in captivity. But how do we know that these aren't similar ?

Gonodactylus · 12/17/2010, 12:04 AM

Because we measured TTX concentrations.

Roy

sd45x · 04/16/2011, 05:30 PM

Hi Guys,
I'm new to Reef Central, I know this is an old thread but my GF and I just got one a few days ago, yes we know how dangerous they are, we have no kids and the tank is 99% bulletproof (always a chance of escape though). Just thought I'd upload a photo. He seems to be doing well, even ate the first night. I plan to log our time with him and provide information to though who do choose to keep them in their home.

Question to those who have one, how often do you feed your little eight legged buddies?

ashtree68 · 04/16/2011, 06:06 PM

What's some more information about your set up? Size, how it's "bullet proof", how you got him, etc.

sd45x · 04/16/2011, 07:09 PM

Sorry, should have done that in the first place. Please excuse my "newbie-isum".

14 gallon Oceanic BioCube w/ mods (new pump, no bio balls, area is filled with live rock, I still use the stock filter but I also have a set of secondary filters (coarse mesh, fine mesh, charcoal). I do weekly water changes in addition to media changes about every two to three weeks. He has a few hermits and snails as tank mates as well as some polyps and one mushroom (which he seems to avoid for some reason).

I'm also a fine scale model railroader so I made fitted "shield" for most of the back portion of the tank. This covered the filter/LR/pump area, it is made of white styrene plastic and have a little handle to lift it out when needed for maintenance. I also blocked the two wire holes in the back of the tank lid with rubber grommet and if all else fails, some black duct tape (secondary measure).

The only way I can see escape is from the front door if he can get it open, I still need to think of a way to secure it without talking way from the look of the tank, so for now I just put a metal machinist block on top (2lbs!) :-)

We got him from my LFS in West LA. It was not one of those "Oh cool, buy it" type things, we don't do that. We saw him, came home, did days of research and came back to get him.

We've only gotten him to eat fiddler crabs but I've read about a person who got their's to eat frozen silver side bits if feed by tweezers.

I plan to document each day we have him and if he "lives" more than a month I'll make a site with information for those who want to keep one. Not saying that I think they are great pets for all, but I "feel" that we can give him the care he needs to at least live a "good" life while in our care and if the information I log can benefit other Blue Rings, then great! At least we got him and not some person who has no idea about the danger these little guys pose.

Heck, people race motorcycles, sky dive, and crawl into volcanoes. These could all kill you, but if informed, and the risk is acceptable, then why not.

Peter M.
West LA

sd45x · 04/16/2011, 07:18 PM

Here are two more shots of him now he has settled in.

Alex T. · 04/16/2011, 08:58 PM

Please tell me you're not feeding him silversides with tweezers and hands in the tank!!!

sd45x · 04/16/2011, 09:35 PM

Hi Alex,
Thank you for the question. No I never said that I did, and please don't assume that I do not take their venom seriously. As stated, I did my research, THEY CAN/COULD/WILL KILL!

But seriously they are no worse than handing an Oregon Newt, then not washing your hands and then touching your eye, bottom line, they can BOTH KILL YOU!. (I've had an Oregon Newt for years up until I moved from Oregon). I respect the toxicity of these and all creatures. I still choose to keep them! Better me who understand rather than others who don't.

As I stated, I've read about feeding silver sides with tweezers and wondered if anyone who chooses to keep a blue ring had any success doing so. Keep in mind, tweezers can come in different lengths, even two to three feet! Which I might use

Again, thank you for the question and your concern, we "reefers" are a community and look out for each other, but I hope that we (Emily & I) make it clear that we have educated ourselves in keeping these little guys, at least with the factual information we were able to find. And if its my time or Emily's time, we accept the risk. I can't think of a more beautiful creature to take my life (other than Emily, and she might kill me one day!).

Maivortex · 04/16/2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sd45x

Sorry, should have done that in the first place. Please excuse my "newbie-isum".

14 gallon Oceanic BioCube w/ mods (new pump, no bio balls, area is filled with live rock, I still use the stock filter but I also have a set of secondary filters (coarse mesh, fine mesh, charcoal). I do weekly water changes in addition to media changes about every two to three weeks. He has a few hermits and snails as tank mates as well as some polyps and one mushroom (which he seems to avoid for some reason).

I'm also a fine scale model railroader so I made fitted "shield" for most of the back portion of the tank. This covered the filter/LR/pump area, it is made of white styrene plastic and have a little handle to lift it out when needed for maintenance. I also blocked the two wire holes in the back of the tank lid with rubber grommet and if all else fails, some black duct tape (secondary measure).

The only way I can see escape is from the front door if he can get it open, I still need to think of a way to secure it without talking way from the look of the tank, so for now I just put a metal machinist block on top (2lbs!) :-)

We got him from my LFS in West LA. It was not one of those "Oh cool, buy it" type things, we don't do that. We saw him, came home, did days of research and came back to get him.

We've only gotten him to eat fiddler crabs but I've read about a person who got their's to eat frozen silver side bits if feed by tweezers.

I plan to document each day we have him and if he "lives" more than a month I'll make a site with information for those who want to keep one. Not saying that I think they are great pets for all, but I "feel" that we can give him the care he needs to at least live a "good" life while in our care and if the information I log can benefit other Blue Rings, then great! At least we got him and not some person who has no idea about the danger these little guys pose.

Heck, people race motorcycles, sky dive, and crawl into volcanoes. These could all kill you, but if informed, and the risk is acceptable, then why not.

Peter M.
West LA

14 gallon nano is too small. Atleast a 55 gallon for an octopus. Do you have a skimmer? Hermit crabs should be dead sooon. What did your research tell u this is all ok?

kparsells · 04/17/2011, 08:58 AM

Awsome octo ! But a 14g is way to small my man "

Gonodactylus · 04/17/2011, 10:57 AM

Given that this is Hapalochlaena lunulata and not one of the larger species of Hapalochlaena, a 14 gal system that is stable is more than adequate. This is a really small octopus weighing at most 10 g - and they don't eat much as adults. As long as uneaten food is promptly removed, there should not be a problem. On the other hand, I don't recommend keeping blue-rings in cubes. Too many places to hide and/or escape. I'm not that worried about it getting out of the tank. If it does, it won't last more than a few minutes. My concern is that it will go missing and that an accident could happen while searching for it. Some of my closest call with blue-rings have come when I didn't know where they were. In the systems we use, there is no place for them to hide and the sealed lid is not opened until we have visually identified the animal.

Roy

Alex T. · 04/17/2011, 05:43 PM

I don't know. To each his own, but I can't for the life of me fathom keeping something so deadly in my home. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but nothing that dangerous that could be avoided will ever be within reach of my family if I can help it.

Blitz99 · 04/18/2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex T.

I don't know. To each his own, but I can't for the life of me fathom keeping something so deadly in my home. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but nothing that dangerous that could be avoided will ever be within reach of my family if I can help it.

Like you said, to each his own...

asid61 · 04/19/2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clint conway

but why not settle with a zebra or mimic octopus. They are now available and amazing to watch. They also have stunning colors to them. I've had one now for 1 1/2 years and it is always amazing me with new behaviors.

You kept a mimic for 1 1/2 YEARS?! Most people keep them alive for a couple of weeks!

Josh_Canada · 04/19/2011, 07:06 PM

^ i would love to see any pictures you have of its growth/health after a whole year and a half. that is amazing.

stevie-o · 04/19/2011, 08:46 PM

^ me too I'm going to have an octo tank one day, and if i can have a mimic life will be great. What kind of stuff did he mimic?

asid61 · 04/19/2011, 09:10 PM

Mimics don't display their mimic abilities in captivity, usually.

stevie-o · 04/19/2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Mimics don't display their mimic abilities in captivity, usually.

awuh man :/

kiel · 04/24/2011, 02:09 PM

the diversity of the information and perspectives in this thread really has evolved into something wholelly informative about these animals...

jay76, that's an amazing video. it's common knowledge amongst most second + generation australians that they're dangerous but i can appreciate that your curiosity would land you in that position, especially in the heat of the moment while you're doing something exciting like splashing around in water above the barrier reef

excellent video. do you mind if i share it with a few people?

KoralKeith · 06/08/2011, 02:18 AM

I see bluerings being sold all the time in the bay area

CephDude · 08/25/2011, 04:04 PM

I personally think owning a blue-ringed is a fine idea... I've done it many times, and I know many people who have as well. As far as I know, it is not illegal to own one, definitely not in Arizona. If they were illegal to import, many wholesalers in California, would not regularly import them. You'd have to really try to get bitten, they're more afraid of you then you think. They're great for a smart hobbyist to own, due to the fact they don't normally get bigger than a golf ball. They also have a great survival rate, and take readily available live food (fiddler crabs, hermits, ghost shrimp etc).

CarlitosReef · 08/25/2011, 04:25 PM

The tiny poison octopus carries enough venom to kill about twenty six humans.

before it gets me il

I found this here http://www.itsnature.org/sea/other/d...-ring-octopus/

AlexS95 · 08/25/2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CephDude

They also have a great survival rate

No, they don't: they ship horribly.

CephDude · 08/26/2011, 12:21 AM

Not in my experience, I've had over 10 trans-shipped, all of then have survived over 3 months. I consider that a pretty good survival rate, for an animal that has a natural life cycle of 6 months... You hear that Wunderpuss and Mimic's have bad survival rates as well, I've never had a problem with them.

04/16/2011, 06:06 PM	#155
ashtree68 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincoln Park-Chicago Posts: 1,922	What's some more information about your set up? Size, how it's "bullet proof", how you got him, etc. __________________ -Ashton

04/16/2011, 09:35 PM	#159
sd45x Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 132	Hi Alex, Thank you for the question. No I never said that I did, and please don't assume that I do not take their venom seriously. As stated, I did my research, THEY CAN/COULD/WILL KILL! But seriously they are no worse than handing an Oregon Newt, then not washing your hands and then touching your eye, bottom line, they can BOTH KILL YOU!. (I've had an Oregon Newt for years up until I moved from Oregon). I respect the toxicity of these and all creatures. I still choose to keep them! Better me who understand rather than others who don't. As I stated, I've read about feeding silver sides with tweezers and wondered if anyone who chooses to keep a blue ring had any success doing so. Keep in mind, tweezers can come in different lengths, even two to three feet! Which I might use Again, thank you for the question and your concern, we "reefers" are a community and look out for each other, but I hope that we (Emily & I) make it clear that we have educated ourselves in keeping these little guys, at least with the factual information we were able to find. And if its my time or Emily's time, we accept the risk. I can't think of a more beautiful creature to take my life (other than Emily, and she might kill me one day!). __________________ Peter Machac Portland, OR SCMAS Member Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube, 25 AA frag tank, 40 breeder

06/08/2011, 02:18 AM	#171
KoralKeith Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 110	I see bluerings being sold all the time in the bay area __________________ I need a bag of zoanthids

12/17/2010, 12:04 AM	#153
Gonodactylus Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 5,024	Because we measured TTX concentrations. Roy

04/16/2011, 07:09 PM	#156
sd45x Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 132	Sorry, should have done that in the first place. Please excuse my "newbie-isum". 14 gallon Oceanic BioCube w/ mods (new pump, no bio balls, area is filled with live rock, I still use the stock filter but I also have a set of secondary filters (coarse mesh, fine mesh, charcoal). I do weekly water changes in addition to media changes about every two to three weeks. He has a few hermits and snails as tank mates as well as some polyps and one mushroom (which he seems to avoid for some reason). I'm also a fine scale model railroader so I made fitted "shield" for most of the back portion of the tank. This covered the filter/LR/pump area, it is made of white styrene plastic and have a little handle to lift it out when needed for maintenance. I also blocked the two wire holes in the back of the tank lid with rubber grommet and if all else fails, some black duct tape (secondary measure). The only way I can see escape is from the front door if he can get it open, I still need to think of a way to secure it without talking way from the look of the tank, so for now I just put a metal machinist block on top (2lbs!) :-) We got him from my LFS in West LA. It was not one of those "Oh cool, buy it" type things, we don't do that. We saw him, came home, did days of research and came back to get him. We've only gotten him to eat fiddler crabs but I've read about a person who got their's to eat frozen silver side bits if feed by tweezers. I plan to document each day we have him and if he "lives" more than a month I'll make a site with information for those who want to keep one. Not saying that I think they are great pets for all, but I "feel" that we can give him the care he needs to at least live a "good" life while in our care and if the information I log can benefit other Blue Rings, then great! At least we got him and not some person who has no idea about the danger these little guys pose. Heck, people race motorcycles, sky dive, and crawl into volcanoes. These could all kill you, but if informed, and the risk is acceptable, then why not. Peter M. West LA

04/16/2011, 08:58 PM	#158
Alex T. Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,803	Please tell me you're not feeding him silversides with tweezers and hands in the tank!!!

04/17/2011, 08:58 AM	#161
kparsells Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: new Jerzey! Posts: 8	Awsome octo ! But a 14g is way to small my man "

04/17/2011, 10:57 AM	#162
Gonodactylus Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 5,024	Given that this is Hapalochlaena lunulata and not one of the larger species of Hapalochlaena, a 14 gal system that is stable is more than adequate. This is a really small octopus weighing at most 10 g - and they don't eat much as adults. As long as uneaten food is promptly removed, there should not be a problem. On the other hand, I don't recommend keeping blue-rings in cubes. Too many places to hide and/or escape. I'm not that worried about it getting out of the tank. If it does, it won't last more than a few minutes. My concern is that it will go missing and that an accident could happen while searching for it. Some of my closest call with blue-rings have come when I didn't know where they were. In the systems we use, there is no place for them to hide and the sealed lid is not opened until we have visually identified the animal. Roy

04/17/2011, 05:43 PM	#163
Alex T. Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,803	I don't know. To each his own, but I can't for the life of me fathom keeping something so deadly in my home. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but nothing that dangerous that could be avoided will ever be within reach of my family if I can help it.

04/19/2011, 07:06 PM	#166
Josh_Canada Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 253	^ i would love to see any pictures you have of its growth/health after a whole year and a half. that is amazing.

04/19/2011, 08:46 PM	#167
stevie-o Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 338	^ me too I'm going to have an octo tank one day, and if i can have a mimic life will be great. What kind of stuff did he mimic?

04/19/2011, 09:10 PM	#168
asid61 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cupertino, CA Posts: 1,111	Mimics don't display their mimic abilities in captivity, usually.

04/24/2011, 02:09 PM	#170
kiel Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: melbourne, australia Posts: 35	the diversity of the information and perspectives in this thread really has evolved into something wholelly informative about these animals... jay76, that's an amazing video. it's common knowledge amongst most second + generation australians that they're dangerous but i can appreciate that your curiosity would land you in that position, especially in the heat of the moment while you're doing something exciting like splashing around in water above the barrier reef excellent video. do you mind if i share it with a few people?

08/25/2011, 04:04 PM	#172
CephDude Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 10	I personally think owning a blue-ringed is a fine idea... I've done it many times, and I know many people who have as well. As far as I know, it is not illegal to own one, definitely not in Arizona. If they were illegal to import, many wholesalers in California, would not regularly import them. You'd have to really try to get bitten, they're more afraid of you then you think. They're great for a smart hobbyist to own, due to the fact they don't normally get bigger than a golf ball. They also have a great survival rate, and take readily available live food (fiddler crabs, hermits, ghost shrimp etc).

08/25/2011, 04:25 PM	#173
CarlitosReef Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 488	The tiny poison octopus carries enough venom to kill about twenty six humans. before it gets me il I found this here http://www.itsnature.org/sea/other/d...-ring-octopus/

08/26/2011, 12:21 AM	#175
CephDude Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 10	Not in my experience, I've had over 10 trans-shipped, all of then have survived over 3 months. I consider that a pretty good survival rate, for an animal that has a natural life cycle of 6 months... You hear that Wunderpuss and Mimic's have bad survival rates as well, I've never had a problem with them.