Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 08/22/2017, 10:33 PM   #9576
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,265
Blog Entries: 15
edited post above a bit


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/22/2017, 11:33 PM   #9577
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
And feed.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/23/2017, 04:51 AM   #9578
buddah001
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Genoa, IL
Posts: 599
Thanks, I'll give it a try and let you know how it works.


__________________
135g w/ basement fish room, custom made Advanced Acrylics sump, custom ATS, Aqua Illumination lights, saltwater mixing station

RIP my 180g DT,75g sump,90g fuge, 3X250w MH w/Radiums,MSX300A drilled
buddah001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/23/2017, 11:11 AM   #9579
buddah001
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Genoa, IL
Posts: 599
So I may have found part of the problem. Since the start of this tank I was using HW Reefer salt from BRS. prior to that in my nano I was using Tropic Marin and everything was great. But this tank has been nothing but issues. No K or I2 in the water at all. Always had to supplement to get those levels up. Called BRS and they stated there were some issues with that salt and bad batches. Gave me a credit and I bought Brightwell aquatics salt in place of it. Have done three 40g water changes since and I finally am seeing some turnaround on frags from the old tank. Cup coral is extending polyps again. Monticello's,s are coloring back up. I thought I was going with the best salt but guess not. Finally after 4 months starting to see some coralline specs growing.


__________________
135g w/ basement fish room, custom made Advanced Acrylics sump, custom ATS, Aqua Illumination lights, saltwater mixing station

RIP my 180g DT,75g sump,90g fuge, 3X250w MH w/Radiums,MSX300A drilled
buddah001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/23/2017, 11:21 AM   #9580
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,265
Blog Entries: 15
Not to derail the discussion too much, but our local club had a slew of people having problems with inconsistent parameters on one particular brand of salt. It wasn't HW but I won't mention it by name, just will note that several people switched to Aquaforest and/or went back to the long-term standby brands they had been using and have had tanks turn back around again.

I want to be careful to not let this discussion go off on a tangent about salt brands, because anyone who has gotten into that discussion knows there are all kinds of opinions on that. I have very little opinion, maybe that's because I really have been slacking on doing any water changes for a while....I'm not a huge proponent of scrubber + no water changes, but I also don't have time to do them very often, so it just happens to be that way. Hence, I don't use much salt.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/23/2017, 01:29 PM   #9581
buddah001
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Genoa, IL
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Not to derail the discussion too much, but our local club had a slew of people having problems with inconsistent parameters on one particular brand of salt. It wasn't HW but I won't mention it by name, just will note that several people switched to Aquaforest and/or went back to the long-term standby brands they had been using and have had tanks turn back around again.

I want to be careful to not let this discussion go off on a tangent about salt brands, because anyone who has gotten into that discussion knows there are all kinds of opinions on that. I have very little opinion, maybe that's because I really have been slacking on doing any water changes for a while....I'm not a huge proponent of scrubber + no water changes, but I also don't have time to do them very often, so it just happens to be that way. Hence, I don't use much salt.
I do not want to derail anything either. Just hoping to share a finding if in fact it is true. Time will tell


__________________
135g w/ basement fish room, custom made Advanced Acrylics sump, custom ATS, Aqua Illumination lights, saltwater mixing station

RIP my 180g DT,75g sump,90g fuge, 3X250w MH w/Radiums,MSX300A drilled
buddah001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/23/2017, 01:56 PM   #9582
homer1475
Registered Member
 
homer1475's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,313
I think you'll find at one point or another all mass produced salts have inconsistencies. It's like the wild west for these companies, there is no federal regulations or testing from batch to batch. It all comes down to how much testing is done at the manufacturing level. Obviously some do more testing then others.


__________________
80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
homer1475 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/23/2017, 07:08 PM   #9583
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,511
Quote:
I get the screen is big but it would at least start growing some GHA on it, wouldn't it?
No, there won't be enough nutrients in the water too build the algal ladder strands that need to reach out past the slime into the flow, so the slime will dominate.


__________________
Inventor of the easy-to-DIY upflow scrubber, and also the waterfall scrubber that everyone loves to build:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1424843
SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 07:17 AM   #9584
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
You need to feed enough to cultivate your algae base. That base will both sequester waste and generate food back for the tank. You need to feed and maintain strong flow. The algae will come.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 08:43 AM   #9585
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,265
Blog Entries: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
maintain strong flow.
Strong flow is really only required when you A) need it and B) have a solid base of growth

Generally speaking, if you have the ability to dim or shade the lights, reducing the flow on start-up just to the point where you have even coverage will get your initial growth going well. After that, you can increase flow a bit, along with lighting intensity incrementally based on results.

Once you get a strong base of growth, if you have the nutrient density available in the water column, you can increase flow and lighting further.

But I've backed off on the more-flow-is-always-better philosophy, because it doesn't seem to fit all cases. The right flow is more accurate, which adds another moving target actually


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 10:27 AM   #9586
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
If there's sufficient food, flow brings more of it under the light.

Flow is also algae friendly, and goo/slime/bacteria unfriendly.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

Last edited by karimwassef; 08/24/2017 at 10:42 AM.
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 10:58 AM   #9587
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,265
Blog Entries: 15
I guess the definition of "strong flow" could be the thing we are debating here - karimwassef what is your definition of "strong flow"....25 GPH/in? 30? 35? More? Less?


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 11:24 AM   #9588
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
4000gph over a 2' x 3' screen. 2' wide and 3' long.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 11:34 AM   #9589
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,265
Blog Entries: 15
That's an insane amount of flow - 166 GPH/in. I found that going over 50 GPH/in hits diminishing returns. I've seen some cases where growth is better at a lower flow rate.

I think your setup is a bit of an exception, JMO


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 11:41 AM   #9590
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
But you've seen my algae growth rate. Even in my new setup, I recycle a 3 gallon bucket weekly. Of course there's three gallons of food going in that cycle too... and three gallons of poo.. that turn into three gallons of algae (full of pods and worms) every week.

If there's food, the algae will grow. The faster flow against the surface air will be preferential to the algae vs. bacteria.

I agree that you need to give them time to anchor in though. But once you have the fuzz, faster and more food makes algae go nuts!


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 11:55 AM   #9591
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
Plus some Iron.


Though I do agree with Bud your setup is an outlier. And others should find their sweet spot. Most likely it will be less flow. Mine was. To much flow and my scrubber grew less.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 12:36 PM   #9592
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Iron? I considered adding iron but never did


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 12:40 PM   #9593
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Hmm... I wish I could show it graphically.

The only real limitation I've found is food. Light and flow only serve algae, but they seem excessive when the algae runs out of food. The more food, the more flow and light contribute directly to the growth rate.

There likely is a limit, by nothing our systems can easily generate - and I have tried very hard.

The only thing that hurt my scrubbers has been lack of food.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 12:44 PM   #9594
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Hmm... I wish I could show it graphically.

The only real limitation I've found is food. Light and flow only serve algae, but they seem excessive when the algae runs out of food. The more food, the more flow and light contribute directly to the growth rate.

There likely is a limit, by nothing our systems can easily generate - and I have tried very hard.

The only thing that hurt my scrubbers has been lack of food.
If you don't currently dose iron, outside of anything in new salt and foods fed, I bet your algae could create a nuclear fallout.

You can google search
DIY the DIY FE++ Ferrous citrate supplement

for what I've done and made based on Randy's formula.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 12:46 PM   #9595
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
i would also be curious what your potassium levels are at. I haven't hit any limitations there and are in NSW range but you're pulling a lot more algae.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 12:50 PM   #9596
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
I don't actually export.. I feed my algae all back

My tangs also love bananas! You should check out my youtubes


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 01:54 PM   #9597
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I don't actually export.. I feed my algae all back

My tangs also love bananas! You should check out my youtubes
I knew you refed your fish but from what you typed above I was reading that you pulled some out too. Just my misunderstanding. Bananas I found out from PaulB and him feeding his Moorish Idol.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2017, 02:05 PM   #9598
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
I recycle all unless someone wants some to start their culture. It's a swirling mass of life and I just can't throw it away.

I think bananas are the new secret coral food


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/25/2017, 10:20 AM   #9599
bks2100
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason2459 View Post
If you don't currently dose iron, outside of anything in new salt and foods fed, I bet your algae could create a nuclear fallout.

You can google search
DIY the DIY FE++ Ferrous citrate supplement

for what I've done and made based on Randy's formula.
How could not dosing iron result in the algae creating a nuclear fallot? I googled what you said and found your thread on another forum and a bunch of recipes and substitutes for Randy's recipe, but nothing that talked about anything nuclear going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I recycle all unless someone wants some to start their culture. It's a swirling mass of life and I just can't throw it away.

I think bananas are the new secret coral food
I'm confused, if you feed all of your algae back to the tank, how do you control nutrients? I would think after weeks of throwing the algae back into the system that there would be too many nutrients in the water.


bks2100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/25/2017, 10:24 AM   #9600
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,265
Blog Entries: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bks2100 View Post
How could not dosing iron result in the algae creating a nuclear fallot? I googled what you said and found your thread on another forum and a bunch of recipes and substitutes for Randy's recipe, but nothing that talked about anything nuclear going on
I think what he was saying that is if he isn't currently dosing iron and he's getting that much growth, that if he then started dosing iron, his growth would explode.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
algae scrubber/heavy metals charles matthews Randy Holmes-Farley 6 11/03/2016 08:32 PM
xenia scrubber instead of algae scrubber? dolt SPS Keepers 40 04/07/2011 11:34 AM
Try again: Is anybody running an algae scrubber as primary filter. Frick-n-Frags Reef Discussion 166 08/03/2008 03:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.