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Unread 10/20/2017, 07:00 PM   #9726
jalisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalisco View Post
Hi Floyed,

I put your Rev 3 L2 on my aquarium 6 months ago and connot get it to take off.
45gal DT
20gal Sump
2.5 liters Siporax
Radion XR30 Pro (haven't turned on to let ATS get going)
Open flow minimum real reaf rock
1 cube per day
Yasha Goby
Helfrichi Fire Fire
Tanaka Possum Wrasse
2ea. Scarlet hermits
2ea. Dwarf Blue Leg hermits
1ea. Pom Pom crab
1ea. Randalli Pistol shrimp

Having trouble loading files right now. I'll try again shortly.
The first photo is three months ago at 18hrs a day with the lights in the factory delivered setting. The photo is a litter greener than in person where it is more of a dead yellow/grey color. After that photo I changed the lights to 12hrs on 12 off per a recommendation you made to someone else.

The next three photos are after a few months of 12 on 12 off and about a half cube per day. in the third picture I'm trying to show how mealy the algae is when I scrape it in case that tells you something.

The flow rate is about 240gph (based on holding tubing at L2's inlet level and filling a graduated bucket to 2.5 gallons and doing the math). I tried turning the Radion on and it grew the same yellow/grey algae on the DT glass with in a week or two.

More light? Less light? More food?

Thanks for any help.


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Unread 10/21/2017, 10:34 AM   #9727
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Hello All! I've had my ATS running for around 5 months and still not getting thick algae on it. I am getting mostly bubble algae and red algae. Minimum of hair algae.

I am happy that there is really no nuisance algae in my DT but are there any pointers you can offer to get thick hair algae? Should I be worried about the slime and bubble algae growing on my ATS?

Thanks


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Unread 10/21/2017, 01:03 PM   #9728
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What size screen? Flow rate? What type lights? How much do you feed?

Lot's of variables. If you do not have DT algae there is probably nothing to be concerned about but the best way to know if it is doing its job is the answer to this question:
What are the levels of NO3 and PO4- the nutrients?


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Unread 10/21/2017, 06:58 PM   #9729
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Just cleaned my screen and noticed something interesting. The 1/2 of he screen closest to the water line was nice and thick in algae, the side furthest away was just slightly brown.
Maybe not enough water flow?

Corey


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Unread 10/22/2017, 03:29 PM   #9730
SantaMonica
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Quote:
More light? Less light? More food?
Looks like it needs a lot more light, more often cleaning, and a white screen instead of a black one.

Quote:
Should I be worried about the slime and bubble algae growing on my ATS?
Some is wrong if there a bubbles growing. Probably not cleaning often enough.

Quote:
The 1/2 of he screen closest to the water line was nice and thick in algae, the side furthest away was just slightly brown
Not enough air/water turbulence. That's what grows algae quickly, and it's only at the air/water interface. There should be no screen too far below the waterline, unless there are air bubbles on it to make the air/water turbulence.


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Unread 10/23/2017, 12:45 AM   #9731
jalisco
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Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
Looks like it needs a lot more light, more often cleaning, and a white screen instead of a black one.
Thanks SM,
I had the light at 18 on 6 off. Should I go to 21 on 3 off or 23 on 1 off? The screen is white I just didn’t remove enough algae to show that.


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Unread 10/23/2017, 07:53 AM   #9732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalisco View Post
The first photo is three months ago at 18hrs a day with the lights in the factory delivered setting. The photo is a litter greener than in person where it is more of a dead yellow/grey color. After that photo I changed the lights to 12hrs on 12 off per a recommendation you made to someone else.

The next three photos are after a few months of 12 on 12 off and about a half cube per day. in the third picture I'm trying to show how mealy the algae is when I scrape it in case that tells you something.

The flow rate is about 240gph (based on holding tubing at L2's inlet level and filling a graduated bucket to 2.5 gallons and doing the math). I tried turning the Radion on and it grew the same yellow/grey algae on the DT glass with in a week or two.

More light? Less light? More food?

Thanks for any help.
Instead of completely scraping off the algae, I would do a less aggressive level of cleaning. I'm not sure how long you go between cleanings, but what I would do here is is a partial cleaning at around 5-8 days where you just rinse the screen in tap water while rubbing it with your fingertips. You might make a few passes with a soft toothbrush to loosen a bit more, but that almost looks like you are accumulating detritus on the algae (which is not uncommon) and that should easily rinse away.

You could also do a partial scraping, leaving 50% or more behind.

But the biggest question comes down to this - how is your tank doing? Any nutrient or algae problems?

You are not feeding a ton, so the scrubber is a bit oversized so I don't think I would try to push it harder by adding more light or flow, I would leave it where it is and just let it grow more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biecacka View Post
Just cleaned my screen and noticed something interesting. The 1/2 of he screen closest to the water line was nice and thick in algae, the side furthest away was just slightly brown.
Maybe not enough water flow?

Corey
This is typically due to a flow differential, either the flow is a bit too much and this is causing it to arc across the screen (heavier on the far end) or it's too low and there's not enough on the far end. Whichever it is can depend on your specific system sometimes.

Either way, it should eventually fill in with the same type of growth across the entire screen, but the screen needs to be mature for that to happen, which can take a while. In some systems, it doesn't matter, it'll just fill in right away. Other systems can take a while.

In your case I'm guessing the flow is on the higher side so the close side is actually getting a bit less flow (the water is arcing). The logic says that for you, at this point, a bit lower flow works better - which can be the case for a new screen. So if you are getting that arcing and the water is piling up on the far end of the screen, reduce the flow just a bit until you get more even flow.


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Unread 10/23/2017, 08:00 AM   #9733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
Looks like it needs a lot more light, more often cleaning, and a white screen instead of a black one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalisco View Post
Thanks SM,
I had the light at 18 on 6 off. Should I go to 21 on 3 off or 23 on 1 off? The screen is white I just didn’t remove enough algae to show that.
jalisco - do NOT listen to SM's advice here. He has clearly not read your other posts or looked close enough at the pictures you posted.

#1 your screen is not black

#2 you are not feeding enough to warrant more light:
Quote:
The next three photos are after a few months of 12 on 12 off and about a half cube per day.
^^ 12/12 should really be just fine, and unless you have a persistent nutrient issue or tank algae issue, pushing the scrubber harder just to get GHA growing for the purpose of only achieving "the right type of growth" is not necessarily the right focus.

#3 you don't need to clean more often in the "scraping" sense of the word, see my post above regarding this (interim cleaning, rub & rinse, etc)


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Unread 10/23/2017, 08:04 AM   #9734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biecacka View Post
The 1/2 of he screen closest to the water line was nice and thick in algae, the side furthest away was just slightly brown.
Maybe not enough water flow?Corey
Just to be clear, when you say "water line" are you referring to the input water source line or the level of water that the screen is sitting in?

"water line" can be interpreted in 2 different ways. I interpreted this as the input water line, SM interpreted it as the water level the screen is in - so I want to make sure I answered the right question in my previous post. If it's the other water line (level) then the answer is indeed different


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Unread 10/23/2017, 09:10 AM   #9735
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Sorry Floyd, I meant the source of water. And I had it down very low so I increased it a bit.
This thing is kicking butt man

Corey


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Unread 10/23/2017, 09:15 AM   #9736
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Glad I asked - yeah if the flow is too low on a longer screen, then all the water drains out of the slot before it can get to the end, which would generally leave the far end of the screen shorted for water flow, which could easily result in growth other than GHA in that area


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Unread 10/23/2017, 03:53 PM   #9737
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algae photo removed



Last edited by Scrubber_steve; 10/23/2017 at 04:20 PM.
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Unread 10/24/2017, 06:47 AM   #9738
SantaMonica
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Quote:
I had the light at 18 on 6 off. Should I go to 21 on 3 off or 23 on 1 off? The screen is white I just didn’t remove enough algae to show that.
I'd try that. And black stuff should never be left on a screen.


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Unread 10/24/2017, 01:42 PM   #9739
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I'd try that.
Given jalisco's tank conditions/situation, I would not try that. You're likely to cause the growth to go yellow and spongey, or bleach it out. See my previous post


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Unread 10/31/2017, 10:30 PM   #9740
outy
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Originally Posted by jalisco View Post
The first photo .
Looks like mine does.


I run 14 ish hours, my problem is the water is moving so fast through my drain slots the water is all pushed to the end of the screen and I don't have even flow.

I need to build a manifold so I get even flow.


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Unread 11/01/2017, 08:53 PM   #9741
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Hey Bud! Been running the turbo L2 for 2 years now. Never seemed to get a foothold but I don't think it's the unit, I think it's a combo of tank issues and operator issues.

Got the tank issues sorted, we're running stable and doing all the things I want. Only issue is annoying GHA creeps up if I feed what I want to (1tsp 1mm pellets, two pinches of flake and 1 cube of frozen a day) to satisfy the anthias. Food is gone in short order (aka I don't think I'm drastically over feeding) but the GHA persists in the DT.

Scrubber is yellow/slimey light green. In a last ditch 6 months ago I went 24/7 with the lights at about 6 o'clock. A month ago I dialed hte light intensity back. The screen grows, just not enough to out compete apparently.

Based on your previous comments it would seem I need to not run 24/7. I changed it tonight to 13 on 11 off opposite the DT lights but I am willing to give any suggested schedule a shot. Currently being fed by a rio1100 at full tilt.

Open to suggestions to try to tune this in enough to work out some of hte GHA problems.


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Unread 11/01/2017, 09:13 PM   #9742
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Quote:
the water is moving so fast through my drain slots the water is all pushed to the end of the screen and I don't have even flow
This self-corrects when growth gets up to the slot.


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Unread 11/02/2017, 07:36 AM   #9743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iced98lx View Post
Scrubber is yellow/slimy light green. In a last ditch 6 months ago I went 24/7 with the lights at about 6 o'clock. A month ago I dialed the light intensity back. The screen grows, just not enough to out compete apparently.
The 6 o'clock intensity level and 9-12 hrs/day is really a starting point, once you get a base of growth this should be incrementally bumped up to about 75%. If you leave it at 6 o'clock, that's not going to penetrate deep enough to keep the base alive very well, so the GHA that is attached gets covered up with any type of slime that might be growing and it gets stifled

Quote:
Originally Posted by iced98lx View Post
Based on your previous comments it would seem I need to not run 24/7. I changed it tonight to 13 on 11 off opposite the DT lights but I am willing to give any suggested schedule a shot. Currently being fed by a rio1100 at full tilt.
Running long hours is OK once you find your sweet spot on the intensity, and also as long as you have the nutrients available to support it.

It sounds like a combination of things, but I would start by bumping up the intensity to 75% and letting it run the photoperiod you have set

What you will want to do is take the screen out a couple times a week (every 4-5 days) and just rub & rinse to loosen/remove most if not all of any slimy type of growth, but don't scrape or scrub. If you do scrape, don't use a scraper to "chisel" at the growth, but rather just to "swipe" or "drag" to loosen growth (some slimy stuff might come off easier using a drag/swipe)

If there is some unwanted growth remaining in some areas after swipe/rub/rinse, then you can use a soft toothbrush to gently remove some of this with a light dragging motion (versus a hard back & forth scrubbing motion).

The idea here is to keep the slime growth at bay while not removing any GHA. This should improve your GHA growth over time, but depending on your tank situation, this could take some time.

Once you start getting GHA to fill in, then you can start adding hours until you get to about 18 hrs/day and have consistent results. Then, you can bump intensity up a level, give it a few cycles of growth/harvesting, add 2 hours/day, give it a few cycles, etc until you start to either A) get the production you need or B) start to see a reversion of growth (which would then indicate you went too far on intensity)

Intensity will yield a change in growth results faster than duration, because intensity is instantaneous - so if you pass the "sweet spot" for your tank at the given nutrient levels/tank conditions, the growth will revert. Whereas, if you keep the intensity fixed and extend duration, this is a much "softer" change. The growth reversal can still happen, but it's less pronounced and is more likely to happen when the tank conditions change over a period of time (for instance, when your system gets "cleaned up" and your nutrient levels start to drop and your feeding doesn't keep replenishing them)

IIRC you have a high head level on your setup - the vertical measurement between the slot pipe and the water level that the pump is sitting in. If this is over 15", the Rio 1100 might not be cutting it, but that really shouldn't make a major difference as long as you are getting decent flow and good coverage. However, it might mean that you have a upper limit on how much you can push the intensity, because there is a relationship between intensity and flow - generally, if you wish to increase production (on a well-functioning screen) then you usually have to increase flow along with intensity. Otherwise, if you increase intensity, your available nutrients delivered to the screen are limited, and you can rocket past that sweet spot.

So I'm not saying you need to change your pump - that would be the next consideration after trying all of the above.


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Unread 11/02/2017, 12:36 PM   #9744
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I have a 9.5 x 9.0 screen lit from 8 pm to 8 am. It is light with 21 3 watt led's on each side. The leds are from Steve's LED and the configuration is 3 bars on each sideof the screen, the outside bars are 7 deep red and the middle bar is 2 neutral white, 2 royal blue and 3 deep red. All are lit with the standard driver from Steve's and is not adjustable so I assume it it is 100% intensity. They are about 2 inches from the screen.

Flow is about 350 gallons /hour.

My harvest today was 410 grams after 6 days.


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Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels
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Unread 11/02/2017, 12:45 PM   #9745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
The 6 o'clock intensity level and 9-12 hrs/day is really a starting point, once you get a base of growth this should be incrementally bumped up to about 75%. If you leave it at 6 o'clock, that's not going to penetrate deep enough to keep the base alive very well, so the GHA that is attached gets covered up with any type of slime that might be growing and it gets stifled



Running long hours is OK once you find your sweet spot on the intensity, and also as long as you have the nutrients available to support it.

It sounds like a combination of things, but I would start by bumping up the intensity to 75% and letting it run the photoperiod you have set

What you will want to do is take the screen out a couple times a week (every 4-5 days) and just rub & rinse to loosen/remove most if not all of any slimy type of growth, but don't scrape or scrub. If you do scrape, don't use a scraper to "chisel" at the growth, but rather just to "swipe" or "drag" to loosen growth (some slimy stuff might come off easier using a drag/swipe)

If there is some unwanted growth remaining in some areas after swipe/rub/rinse, then you can use a soft toothbrush to gently remove some of this with a light dragging motion (versus a hard back & forth scrubbing motion).

The idea here is to keep the slime growth at bay while not removing any GHA. This should improve your GHA growth over time, but depending on your tank situation, this could take some time.

Once you start getting GHA to fill in, then you can start adding hours until you get to about 18 hrs/day and have consistent results. Then, you can bump intensity up a level, give it a few cycles of growth/harvesting, add 2 hours/day, give it a few cycles, etc until you start to either A) get the production you need or B) start to see a reversion of growth (which would then indicate you went too far on intensity)

Intensity will yield a change in growth results faster than duration, because intensity is instantaneous - so if you pass the "sweet spot" for your tank at the given nutrient levels/tank conditions, the growth will revert. Whereas, if you keep the intensity fixed and extend duration, this is a much "softer" change. The growth reversal can still happen, but it's less pronounced and is more likely to happen when the tank conditions change over a period of time (for instance, when your system gets "cleaned up" and your nutrient levels start to drop and your feeding doesn't keep replenishing them)

IIRC you have a high head level on your setup - the vertical measurement between the slot pipe and the water level that the pump is sitting in. If this is over 15", the Rio 1100 might not be cutting it, but that really shouldn't make a major difference as long as you are getting decent flow and good coverage. However, it might mean that you have a upper limit on how much you can push the intensity, because there is a relationship between intensity and flow - generally, if you wish to increase production (on a well-functioning screen) then you usually have to increase flow along with intensity. Otherwise, if you increase intensity, your available nutrients delivered to the screen are limited, and you can rocket past that sweet spot.

So I'm not saying you need to change your pump - that would be the next consideration after trying all of the above.
Many thanks Bud, as always. I'll put these suggestions into action. I do have a DC6000 pump if the 1100 isn't up to the task. I'll report back in a few weeks.


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Unread 11/02/2017, 01:15 PM   #9746
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Oh, in case it helps, here is what it looks like after 10 days of growth:

IMG_20171102_141054 by Christopher Uthe, on Flickr

IMG_20171102_141044 by Christopher Uthe, on Flickr

I rinsed it and palmswiped it and this is what I put back in:

IMG_20171102_141155 by Christopher Uthe, on Flickr

IMG_20171102_141203 by Christopher Uthe, on Flickr


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Unread 11/02/2017, 01:23 PM   #9747
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Yeah you should have increased the intensity a while back, have you ever ran it higher than 6 o'clock? I'm guessing no, because your screen is stark white underneath, which tells me that the algae isn't anchored very well (or your flash is super bright) and this could be part of the reason.

The odd part is that the yellow goo/slime you show prior to swiping it is (usually) indicative of too much light, but I don't think that's the case here - there might be something else not light-related that is causing this. Upping the intensity might cause that to do away.

I would bump intensity up to 4 o'clock. Not 3 o'clock, not yet. Just a precaution


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Unread 11/02/2017, 01:34 PM   #9748
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I had it above 6 (probably 3-4) when I first switched to 24/7, after not having much growth I dialed it back to 6 24/7.

To verify, I'm at 13 on 11 off with the light at about 4 o'clock now.


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Unread 11/02/2017, 02:00 PM   #9749
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Since we're talking intensity and duration, I'm on 24hr x 400W LEDs now but moving the whole setup into the back yard with solar as the primary light = 11hrs.

 photo BDAD2289-AB95-4DC5-A7CB-BF4214F0E450_zpsznspzsid.jpg

It'll be in a greenhouse facing south so good solar capture.
 photo 124D758E-BAC2-44F5-8366-5002242B06F9_zps9xjoimmg.jpg
I think the solar intensity should be enough to compensate the total PAR X Time but it's still a massive change.

Thoughts?


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Unread 11/03/2017, 02:19 PM   #9750
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Is this normal? Its been running for like 6 weeks. This is REALLY dark nasty slimey shhtuff. You can't squeeze water out of it like u can hair algae. When u squeeze it it just oozes between ur fingers.

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Current Tank Info: New 180g Mixed SPS Build in progress
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