Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 12/25/2017, 10:55 AM   #1
dhd666
Registered Member
 
dhd666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Nitrates Still High - Using NOPOX

Hi all,

I’m beating my head in... been using NOPOX for 9 Months now and had weird results but Nitrate would not go below 25... now it’s back up to 50 and Phos is at 0,5.

There was a stage when my phos was 0 but Nitrate was still at 50 and wouldn’t budge. I Read up on the Redfield Ratio and thought that maybe if I fed more flake I could increase my phos, and in return reduce my Nitrate... but no luck... so as it stands I am not at 50 Nitrate and 0,5 Phos...

I am dosing 3ml NOPOX for 100l,
Running Matrix,
Running Seachem de Nitrate
Ceramic rings
Red Sea Reef Spec skimmer
Tons of live rock
Tank is a Red Sea Max 130D 130 liters

What can I do???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dhd666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/25/2017, 11:56 AM   #2
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
Okay, let's go through the basic steps. I'd check the nitrite level, because nitrite will confuse nitrate test kits. That's a low probability event, though.

I'd guess that you might want to increase the NOPOX dose. It's basically a mix of vodka and vinegar, and that dose might not be enough. I suspect that cutting back on feeding will help a lot. There's no need to worry about the Redfield Ratio in this context, since you're not feeding phytoplankton, and denitrification can occur without net phosphorus uptake.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/25/2017, 12:05 PM   #3
JUNBUG361
Registered Member
 
JUNBUG361's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Antioch,CALIFORNIA
Posts: 1,091
Due a water change 20-40% bi weekly. Test new saltwater before adding for nitrates. Reduce feeding as mentioned above. What type of test kits are you using?



Last edited by JUNBUG361; 12/25/2017 at 12:10 PM.
JUNBUG361 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/25/2017, 12:38 PM   #4
Jamesmost
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 53
My nitrates and po4 were high...
Added a phosban reactor
Stopped feeding frozen foods, now 1x per week and rinse them
Stopped feeding phytoplankton (what is effect of phyto?)
Cut back reef foods to 2x per month....

Date. 12/23
Temp. 77.3
Sal. .025
Ph. 7.8 (How to raise other then temporary?)
Amo. 0
Nitrite. 0
Nitrate 10 (was as high as 80)
Kh. 8.7
.ca. 450
Mg. 1400
P04. .18

Upped nopox to 3ml per 25gallons and put on doser for consistency,


Jamesmost is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/25/2017, 12:43 PM   #5
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
pH at 7.8 is normal for a tank in a house. There's no way to raise the pH other than reducing carbon dioxide in the water column, which often comes down to reducing the carbon dioxide in the ambient air. For some tanks, Kalk as topoff or a scrubber on the protein skimmer help.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/25/2017, 12:47 PM   #6
Jamesmost
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
pH at 7.8 is normal for a tank in a house. There's no way to raise the pH other than reducing carbon dioxide in the water column, which often comes down to reducing the carbon dioxide in the ambient air. For some tanks, Kalk as topoff or a scrubber on the protein skimmer help.
Have a co2 scrubber helped a tad.

Was gonna run a line outside, now that the gardeners, are done throwing lye and fert ..

But the seashell balance and marine ph boosters are just temp, I tried the ph boost once and ph went up for an hour or 2 then back to 7.8


Jamesmost is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/25/2017, 12:53 PM   #7
dhd666
Registered Member
 
dhd666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
I’m using Salifert and Red Sea kits to test. Should I increase to 4ml? Also , I’m using Seachem de-Nitrate, should I remove that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dhd666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/25/2017, 01:21 PM   #8
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
The De-Nitrate is artificial live rock, and it's probably helping a bit, but most people who use it seem to say that they need a lot of media to make much difference, which makes sense. I'd leave it in the system.

I'd start increasing the dose slowly. 4 ml is a reasonable goal. A bacterial bloom might show up at some point, but they tend to be fairly easy to handle.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/28/2017, 04:19 PM   #9
plankton
Registered Member
 
plankton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Posts: 2,676
I agree with above posts that you need to find the source and treat that first.

Let's just assume you have a 'high' nitrite/nitrate level for now, one of the BEST sinks I've ever had to control such were clams. Just remember that they are pulling your Nitrate down because the day you sell or trade one off, your nitrate may spike.


__________________
IM 25G Lagoon
plankton is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/28/2017, 06:35 PM   #10
ReeferNoob4ever
Registered Member
 
ReeferNoob4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NM
Posts: 523
I'm assuming you're not using tap water or bad ro/di filter media...


__________________
Get a life!

Current Tank Info: 20gL mixed reef, 10g mixed reef w/nem & clown, 5g NPS & harlequin
ReeferNoob4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/28/2017, 11:47 PM   #11
dhd666
Registered Member
 
dhd666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeferNoob4ever View Post
I'm assuming you're not using tap water or bad ro/di filter media...


Proper RO from the LFS. TDS 0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dhd666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/29/2017, 12:00 PM   #12
plankton
Registered Member
 
plankton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Posts: 2,676
do you have sand bed and if so how old and what kind of substrate, grain size? Any missing fish that might have died behind your LR? Just trying to find a source of all of that nutrient!


__________________
IM 25G Lagoon
plankton is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/29/2017, 01:52 PM   #13
garygonzales
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: WEST ALLIS ,WI
Posts: 922
i did the nopox for over a year too and it worked great...it came dowm from like over 100 down to 40 and thats where it stayed for months and could get it to go down from there... it kinda plateaued at 40...then i decide to try something different ..i switched to just vinegar..and viola..it went down to 0...not sure why tho but it worked...


garygonzales is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/30/2017, 01:58 AM   #14
dhd666
Registered Member
 
dhd666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by plankton View Post
do you have sand bed and if so how old and what kind of substrate, grain size? Any missing fish that might have died behind your LR? Just trying to find a source of all of that nutrient!


I don’t have a DSB and the tank is a year old... no missing fish lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dhd666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/30/2017, 01:58 AM   #15
dhd666
Registered Member
 
dhd666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygonzales View Post
i did the nopox for over a year too and it worked great...it came dowm from like over 100 down to 40 and thats where it stayed for months and could get it to go down from there... it kinda plateaued at 40...then i decide to try something different ..i switched to just vinegar..and viola..it went down to 0...not sure why tho but it worked...


Did you follow the dosing chart?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dhd666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/30/2017, 08:31 AM   #16
foneman02
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 22
I used nopox to reduce my nitrates from 40 to 0. I followed the dosing guide for about 2 weeks with no reduction. I kept increasing the dose about 2 mls a day to I finally got to 15 mls a day. It about 6 weeks and it got down to 0. Then I started backing down to I started to see a rise in nitrate. My daily dose is now 6 mls a day. Hope this helps.


foneman02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/30/2017, 08:33 AM   #17
dhd666
Registered Member
 
dhd666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dhd666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/31/2017, 06:26 PM   #18
nycjwi
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 28
I would do a full water change. Test new water before to make sure nitrates at 0. Don’t do any feeding for a day or two and see if levels rise. This way you can start to narrow down what is going on. Also is all your filtration clean? Make sure u don’t have some area in back of tank / sump that is filled with debris. I would not increase nopox till u figure out what is going on.


nycjwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/31/2017, 07:29 PM   #19
garygonzales
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: WEST ALLIS ,WI
Posts: 922
increase in small increments ...otherwise you might end up with a bacterial bloom/snot...


garygonzales is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/31/2017, 08:47 PM   #20
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
I'd be careful about making any large water changes. They can do more harm than good. Exposing live rock to air sometimes causes significant die-off.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/01/2018, 08:05 AM   #21
Nashlake
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 44
Make sure your skimmer is clean and working well. It is the skimmer that exports the waste when carbon dosing.


Nashlake is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/05/2018, 10:01 PM   #22
ELLENAR1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Brownsburg In
Posts: 2
No3po4x

I believe I read or saw video from brs using no3po4x should only be used with
Very low no3 and po4 or you will end up compounding your problem.

Stop using until parameters are in check
Hope I am correct and I have helped:


ELLENAR1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/05/2018, 10:44 PM   #23
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
The point of carbon dosing is to remove mineralized nutrients from the water column. I don't know why the levels would need to be low before dosing. If anything, lower levels could be more of an issue because the carbon could allow bacteria to outcompete corals for nutrients.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/06/2018, 07:36 AM   #24
Reefpuck
Registered Member
 
Reefpuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Georgetown, TX
Posts: 1,122
Have you thought of adding additional bio-filter to help naturally reduce nitrates? Look into the marinepure bio blocks (or whatever they are called).

Also I didn't see...how big is your tank and how many fish? Additional details would help.


__________________
Josh

Current Tank Info: 90g mixed reef w/ 55g sump/fuge.
Reefpuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/06/2018, 08:25 AM   #25
dhd666
Registered Member
 
dhd666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Tank is 130 liters and has 7 fish


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dhd666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.