can all life be killed in tank with freshwater?

zheka757 · 02/12/2018, 09:18 PM

i was just wondering let say my tank is up and running and i have whole bunch of different small creatures in there, INCLUDE ICH! if i take all saltwater out all fish, shrimp, snails. Fill the tank with fresh water, keep it there for let say 2 weeks? and after that start the aquarium cycle all over again.
im just looking for different solution due to dont want to take all rock work apart in my tank.

Anemone · 02/12/2018, 11:10 PM

Yes, you can do the same thing by keeping the tank fallow with salt water for a month - heck raise the temp to speed up the ich life cycle. Ich can't survive very long without fish hosts.

The problem is, what are you going to do to keep your fish from bringing ich back into the tank with them?

Kevin

Tripod1404 · 02/13/2018, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anemone

Yes, you can do the same thing by keeping the tank fallow with salt water for a month - heck raise the temp to speed up the ich life cycle. Ich can't survive very long without fish hosts.

The problem is, what are you going to do to keep your fish from bringing ich back into the tank with them?

Kevin

True but actual duration is closer 2 months not 1 (7-8 weeks). But I agree that if OP is capable of moving all the fish, there isn’t even a need to move inverts. So it is a far better option.

And yes, fish also need to be treated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zheka757 · 02/13/2018, 07:28 AM

The problem is. I did 80 day fishless tank. And I did ttm on all my fish. After ttm done, And observing fish for 2 month in quarantine tank. I did not see any lck on any of my fish. 3 weeks after fish back in the main tank blue hippo hot its firts spot. I belive my tank didnt get ick out buy being fallow

BrianD · 02/13/2018, 07:40 AM

Before anyone spends a great deal of time on this, perhaps reading this thread is in order:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2663648

If you have ignored the previous advice given and set up a tank with the livestock you mentioned, treating ich is going after the symptoms, not the cause.

zheka757 · 02/13/2018, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Before anyone spends a great deal of time on this, perhaps reading this thread is in order:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2663648

If you have ignored the previous advice given and set up a tank with the livestock you mentioned, treating ich is going after the symptoms, not the cause.

Yes that was me. Thats why I created that thread to listen to what other can say about it or have it done. (BUT NOWARE IN THERE I SAID THAT I DID GET THE LIVE STOCK I WANTED) since no one have had it done I didnt do it ether. So I stayed with my original live stock. And put my fish in there. And here I am 3 weeks later with my main tank back with ick

BrianD · 02/13/2018, 08:21 AM

I'm assuming you still have the 5 tangs you originally mentioned (one in the tank and 4 in quarantine).

The mix of tangs you have, plus the age of your tank, are practically guarantees you will have the issues you are facing. The solution is to rethink those stocking choices and give your tank more time to mature.

nereefpat · 02/13/2018, 08:24 AM

Thanks for the heads up, Brian.

BrianD · 02/13/2018, 08:26 AM

Please understand that most of us have been in the same place you are. These are not posts of judgment, these are the posts of "don't make the mistakes we made".

Rover88 · 02/13/2018, 08:33 AM

You learn from making mistakes.

Wisdom is being able to learn from others making mistakes.

You said your main tank was fallow for 80 days, but you had a yellow tang in there? When did you do your TTM? How long has the tank been set up and running? I'm losing the thread trying to piece it together from this post and the other one.

zheka757 · 02/13/2018, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

I'm assuming you still have the 5 tangs you originally mentioned (one in the tank and 4 in quarantine).

The mix of tangs you have, plus the age of your tank, are practically guarantees you will have the issues you are facing. The solution is to rethink those stocking choices and give your tank more time to mature.

What would you recommend to remove from the stock I have? Also what do you consider mature tank?
But yes those are the 5 tangs I have blonde naso. Blue hippo. Powder blue. Yellow. And 1 purple tangs
Also. Maybe I'm not seing something, but looks like they all get along

BrianD · 02/13/2018, 10:59 AM

Remember, fish don't "get along". They tolerate other fish, but that tolerance can be greatly diminished by perceived food competitors. Generally fish of the same families have low tolerance for other members. Result of mixing them anyway? Potential stressed out fish that are less resistant to irritants.

The naso is a huge, actively swimming fish. It can also be aggressive towards other tangs. You have two tangs that are on the higher end of the scale as far as delicacy (the powder blue and the hepatus). You also have two of the zebrasoma genus (the yellow and the purple).

So...

You have a large fish that can bully all the other tangs.
You have two tangs with a high mortality rate in the hobby (powder blue and hepatus).
You have two species within the same genus.

If you are going to stock in that fashion, it is best to have extremely healthy specimens that have a mature tank (plenty of algael growth for continual grazing) and plenty of hiding places. "Hiding places" get a bit harder when the tank is only 500 gallons (I had a 8x3x3 tank with only a couple of tangs, and that was plenty for me).

zheka757 · 02/13/2018, 11:29 AM

Brian thank you for your time in helping me understanding this hobby a bit more. But what do you consider established tank based on your experience? I mean is it something to see in the tank or just time?

BrianD · 02/14/2018, 10:42 AM

Keep in mind that a reef tank is constantly evolving. Most of the changes happen within the first year, and most of the instability occurs in the first year. Some signs of a maturing tank are algal and coral growth, stable parameters, healthy and actively feeding fish, etc.

Some have described a mature tank as one that can be "left alone" for a week's vacation without obsessing over the tank crashing (as if reefers don't obsess anyway).

You could post that question to 20 different people and get 20 different answers. I think the best answer is to do everything you can to let the tank stabilize (minimal livestock changes) and time will take care of the rest.

Tripod1404 · 02/14/2018, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Keep in mind that a reef tank is constantly evolving. Most of the changes happen within the first year, and most of the instability occurs in the first year. Some signs of a maturing tank are algal and coral growth, stable parameters, healthy and actively feeding fish, etc.

Some have described a mature tank as one that can be "left alone" for a week's vacation without obsessing over the tank crashing (as if reefers don't obsess anyway).

You could post that question to 20 different people and get 20 different answers. I think the best answer is to do everything you can to let the tank stabilize (minimal livestock changes) and time will take care of the rest.

Another good sign is breeding snails. Snails require stable water parameters and low level of nutrients to breed.

lagatbezan · 02/14/2018, 04:43 PM

I think I have read in some posts that some strains of ich can go dormant for longer then 76 days. They are not that common but out there so that might be something you are dealing with here in your display.
some are even doing 99 days or more of fallow.
Another possibility could be cross contamination between your qt during TTM or between your qt and display. Keep in mind that you can contaminate them just by putting your hands from one into the other, reusing a siphon; net; container; hose; ect. that wasn't thoroughly disinfected or one of the equipment that didn't dry fully prior to use. There are a lot of small things that cause failure unfortunately.
For example almost everyone uses a heater in their qt. most heaters that have that turning knob on the top with a rubber housing surrounding it. If you don't pay attention to it and fully disassemble it, it will hold water and doesn't fully dry. That alone can cause failure. I know this from experience.
A tank does't need to be well established to be parasite free but will need it for the overall health of its livestock long term. Your current fish list looks great and I would't try to add any more tangs that you have mentioned in your other post. If you want to go that route my only suggestion would be to add a lot more rocks so that they all have their own place to hide and add them all at the same time.
Personally I would keep what you have and add some adult and dwarf angels, couple of butterfly fish, harem of anthias and you can even do a small group of maybe yellow tangs. This will keep aggression down which can cause them to hide, fight or cause injury. So many other beautiful fish out there to chose from.
Personally If i'm going through a thorough qt regiment to get a fish in my tank, I want to make sure I can keep it healthy for a long term so all that work doesn't go to waste.
Thats just my opinion

02/12/2018, 09:18 PM	#1
zheka757 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Port Florida Posts: 283	can all life be killed in tank with freshwater? i was just wondering let say my tank is up and running and i have whole bunch of different small creatures in there, INCLUDE ICH! if i take all saltwater out all fish, shrimp, snails. Fill the tank with fresh water, keep it there for let say 2 weeks? and after that start the aquarium cycle all over again. im just looking for different solution due to dont want to take all rock work apart in my tank.

02/12/2018, 11:10 PM	#2
Anemone Cloning Around Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Valencia, California Posts: 25,267	Yes, you can do the same thing by keeping the tank fallow with salt water for a month - heck raise the temp to speed up the ich life cycle. Ich can't survive very long without fish hosts. The problem is, what are you going to do to keep your fish from bringing ich back into the tank with them? Kevin __________________ Back in the pool, swimming with the sharks... Current Tank Info: Red Sea 425XL w/Kessil AP700, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 x Vortech MP40s

02/13/2018, 07:40 AM	#5
BrianD Sir Brian The Lenient Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Mattoon, IL Posts: 32,111	Before anyone spends a great deal of time on this, perhaps reading this thread is in order: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2663648 If you have ignored the previous advice given and set up a tank with the livestock you mentioned, treating ich is going after the symptoms, not the cause. __________________ Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Current Tank Info: Empty

02/13/2018, 08:21 AM	#7
BrianD Sir Brian The Lenient Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Mattoon, IL Posts: 32,111	I'm assuming you still have the 5 tangs you originally mentioned (one in the tank and 4 in quarantine). The mix of tangs you have, plus the age of your tank, are practically guarantees you will have the issues you are facing. The solution is to rethink those stocking choices and give your tank more time to mature. __________________ Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Current Tank Info: Empty

02/13/2018, 08:24 AM	#8
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	Thanks for the heads up, Brian. __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

02/13/2018, 07:28 AM	#4
zheka757 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Port Florida Posts: 283	The problem is. I did 80 day fishless tank. And I did ttm on all my fish. After ttm done, And observing fish for 2 month in quarantine tank. I did not see any lck on any of my fish. 3 weeks after fish back in the main tank blue hippo hot its firts spot. I belive my tank didnt get ick out buy being fallow

02/13/2018, 08:26 AM	#9
BrianD Sir Brian The Lenient Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Mattoon, IL Posts: 32,111	Please understand that most of us have been in the same place you are. These are not posts of judgment, these are the posts of "don't make the mistakes we made". __________________ Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Current Tank Info: Empty

02/13/2018, 08:33 AM	#10
Rover88 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 590	You learn from making mistakes. Wisdom is being able to learn from others making mistakes. You said your main tank was fallow for 80 days, but you had a yellow tang in there? When did you do your TTM? How long has the tank been set up and running? I'm losing the thread trying to piece it together from this post and the other one.

02/13/2018, 10:59 AM	#12
BrianD Sir Brian The Lenient Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Mattoon, IL Posts: 32,111	Remember, fish don't "get along". They tolerate other fish, but that tolerance can be greatly diminished by perceived food competitors. Generally fish of the same families have low tolerance for other members. Result of mixing them anyway? Potential stressed out fish that are less resistant to irritants. The naso is a huge, actively swimming fish. It can also be aggressive towards other tangs. You have two tangs that are on the higher end of the scale as far as delicacy (the powder blue and the hepatus). You also have two of the zebrasoma genus (the yellow and the purple). So... You have a large fish that can bully all the other tangs. You have two tangs with a high mortality rate in the hobby (powder blue and hepatus). You have two species within the same genus. If you are going to stock in that fashion, it is best to have extremely healthy specimens that have a mature tank (plenty of algael growth for continual grazing) and plenty of hiding places. "Hiding places" get a bit harder when the tank is only 500 gallons (I had a 8x3x3 tank with only a couple of tangs, and that was plenty for me). __________________ Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Current Tank Info: Empty

02/13/2018, 11:29 AM	#13
zheka757 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Port Florida Posts: 283	Brian thank you for your time in helping me understanding this hobby a bit more. But what do you consider established tank based on your experience? I mean is it something to see in the tank or just time?

02/14/2018, 10:42 AM	#14
BrianD Sir Brian The Lenient Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Mattoon, IL Posts: 32,111	Keep in mind that a reef tank is constantly evolving. Most of the changes happen within the first year, and most of the instability occurs in the first year. Some signs of a maturing tank are algal and coral growth, stable parameters, healthy and actively feeding fish, etc. Some have described a mature tank as one that can be "left alone" for a week's vacation without obsessing over the tank crashing (as if reefers don't obsess anyway). You could post that question to 20 different people and get 20 different answers. I think the best answer is to do everything you can to let the tank stabilize (minimal livestock changes) and time will take care of the rest. __________________ Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Current Tank Info: Empty

02/14/2018, 04:43 PM	#16
lagatbezan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,109	I think I have read in some posts that some strains of ich can go dormant for longer then 76 days. They are not that common but out there so that might be something you are dealing with here in your display. some are even doing 99 days or more of fallow. Another possibility could be cross contamination between your qt during TTM or between your qt and display. Keep in mind that you can contaminate them just by putting your hands from one into the other, reusing a siphon; net; container; hose; ect. that wasn't thoroughly disinfected or one of the equipment that didn't dry fully prior to use. There are a lot of small things that cause failure unfortunately. For example almost everyone uses a heater in their qt. most heaters that have that turning knob on the top with a rubber housing surrounding it. If you don't pay attention to it and fully disassemble it, it will hold water and doesn't fully dry. That alone can cause failure. I know this from experience. A tank does't need to be well established to be parasite free but will need it for the overall health of its livestock long term. Your current fish list looks great and I would't try to add any more tangs that you have mentioned in your other post. If you want to go that route my only suggestion would be to add a lot more rocks so that they all have their own place to hide and add them all at the same time. Personally I would keep what you have and add some adult and dwarf angels, couple of butterfly fish, harem of anthias and you can even do a small group of maybe yellow tangs. This will keep aggression down which can cause them to hide, fight or cause injury. So many other beautiful fish out there to chose from. Personally If i'm going through a thorough qt regiment to get a fish in my tank, I want to make sure I can keep it healthy for a long term so all that work doesn't go to waste. Thats just my opinion __________________ Ryan. 300g with velocity t4 for return and a Reflo dart on a closed loop, T5 lights & SRO3000 skimmer. Current Tank Info: 300g