Experience With Purple Queen Anthias - Must feed often

[tquinlan]

This article covers a lot of the husbandry of these fish:

http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/r...a-anthias.html

The oldest P. tuka described here is now about 8 years old, which may be the oldest in captivity in the world.

A note about feeding Artemia nauplii--the best way to keep them at their most nutritious for up to 24 hours is by cooling them to between 40-50F immediately after hatching as it will lower their metabolism without killing them. Even just allowing naups to live for a few hours at room temp will significantly reduce their nutritional value. Temperature shock is a non-issue as naups will begin moving within a few seconds upon being exposed to a reef tank.

[tquinlan]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Haven't tried hatching out brine nauplii in many years (always seemed like a heck of a lot of trouble) but may do that again. Work from a home office, and travel is light during the Summer so I can tend to them appropriately.

It is quite simple really, a 2L bottle, tank water, and an air pump are sufficient to do it.

I would suggest buying decapsulated cysts if you can, as the nutritional value is much better. They are more expensive. You can decapsulate your own cysts at home but it's not simple and makes quite a mess. Not really worth the trouble for small amounts.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by tquinlan

This article covers a lot of the husbandry of these fish:

http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/r...a-anthias.html

The oldest P. tuka described here is now about 8 years old, which may be the oldest in captivity in the world.

A note about feeding Artemia nauplii--the best way to keep them at their most nutritious for up to 24 hours is by cooling them to between 40-50F immediately after hatching as it will lower their metabolism without killing them. Even just allowing naups to live for a few hours at room temp will significantly reduce their nutritional value. Temperature shock is a non-issue as naups will begin moving within a few seconds upon being exposed to a reef tank.

That's the article I alluded to in post #3. A good read if one is attempting these fish. In my case, futzing around with hatching brine won't be necessary as all five of my Tukas are now eating ova, LRS and hikari mysis.

[tquinlan]

Cool! I may have missed it in the previous posts but how long did it take for them to eat Hikari mysis?

Have you tried tobiko, masago, or ROE by Reef Nutrition?

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by tquinlan

Cool! I may have missed it in the previous posts but how long did it take for them to eat Hikari mysis?

Have you tried tobiko, masago, or ROE by Reef Nutrition?

I have had them for about 10 days. They're in my QT system so I can feed them 8-10 times per day without any problems. I've got just about everything imaginable in my fish food freezer. Ova they took right away, cyclopeeze as well, but both of them are 'unobtanium' at the moment. I feed my other small anthias the ocean plankton with good success, but these Tukas were not interested. Adult brine equally ignored. Tried masago roe; not interested. So I mixed some mushed up hikari mysis with the ova and they ate it. Same with LRS. Now four out of the five will eat the whole shrimp; the fifth just bits so far.

[shred5]

Has anyone tried to introduce these fish with ignitus or some other very peaceful but easy to feed anthias?

I find allot of anthias mix rather well and they learn from each other.. My ignitus are very aggressive eaters..

[ca1ore]

I always do that with hard to feed fish. In my case, I have an evansi in with the Tukas.

[tquinlan]

Keep trying masago in a week or so, they should take it eventually.

Another good one is really finely chopped clam, like the size of cyclopeeze.

[ca1ore]

Well, like I said, got just about every combination/permutation of fish food in the freezer; so we shall see.

[ReefJunkie01]

Was trolling the forum and remembered this thread, so thought to give an update.

The feeder system I had going is still doing well, and, happy to say, both of my purple queens are doing very well. Not sure if I had posted this before, but, one of my purple queens started eating frozen food about 1 1/2 to 2 months ago (now it's one of the most aggresive frozen food eaters in the tank at feeding time), and, the second just started eating frozen about 2 weeks ago.

Both will actually now outswim and almost outcompete my two 2 clownfish for food (which is fine, because the purple queens will only go after the 1/8" and smaller pieces, where the clowns have at it with the pieces bigger than that). So, long story short, the system seems to have worked.

I changed the system a little, actually have a rigid airline tubing line running into the tank with a nozzle that basically jet-streams the baby brine into the tank at mid level. To prevent back siphoning, a section of the tubing runs about an inch above the water line an has a 2mm hole, which allows air to fill the line when the system isn't feeding.

Ca1ore, congrats man, I wish you the best of luck with these fish, they really are awesome fish, just a hell of a lot of work at first.

[ReefJunkie01]

edited as it was a double post

[shred5]

Originally Posted by ReefJunkie01

Was trolling the forum and remembered this thread, so thought to give an update.

The feeder system I had going is still doing well, and, happy to say, both of my purple queens are doing very well. Not sure if I had posted this before, but, one of my purple queens started eating frozen food about 1 1/2 to 2 months ago (now it's one of the most aggresive frozen food eaters in the tank at feeding time), and, the second just started eating frozen about 2 weeks ago.

Both will actually now outswim and almost outcompete my two 2 clownfish for food (which is fine, because the purple queens will only go after the 1/8" and smaller pieces, where the clowns have at it with the pieces bigger than that). So, long story short, the system seems to have worked.

I changed the system a little, actually have a rigid airline tubing line running into the tank with a nozzle that basically jet-streams the baby brine into the tank at mid level. To prevent back siphoning, a section of the tubing runs about an inch above the water line an has a 2mm hole, which allows air to fill the line when the system isn't feeding.

Ca1ore, congrats man, I wish you the best of luck with these fish, they really are awesome fish, just a hell of a lot of work at first.

Very nice job sounds like you are over the hump..

Most of these hard to keep fish just need someone who has the time to spend working with them..

[ca1ore]

Well, three weeks in and I still have all 5 of the tuka, along with the three evansi that function as dither fish. I'm feeding them 5 times a day on average. Some of the will take brine, others mysis, most LRS, and all ova. Planning on putting them into my mellow 90.

[caribfan]

So happy to hear of your success, I'd really like some Tukas one day.

[caribfan]

Oh, I forgot, any pics or videos of them eating?

[ReefJunkie01]

Thanks Shred5, it was a bit of a pain trying to get this system to work properly, but, it seems to have done the job. I have a second gen version of this system in a second mandarin tank I have running now (the second gen one is designed to back siphon just a little bit after feeding so that there is tank/water bottle water exchange throughout the day). Not going to post anything on this one yet though, as that one's pretty complicated and I'm still tuning it (as of last night it's been running well, but I've flooded the mandarin tank with brine shrimp about 4 times already, which I've learnt drops the PH a little but the mandarin didn't seem to mind one bit with the extra brine).

Awesome to hear Ca1ore, I'm glad that you had the Ova and were able to convert them. They really are cool fish to have.

Caribfan, I took a video of it last night, but can't post it because of the space limitation requirements of the site. Will have to post it on a site at some time and post the link.

[ReefJunkie01]

Hey Guys,

Ok, so, I dearly apologize for anyone who tried this system and had their brine shrimp keep dying on them after a day or so. I realize I had made a couple of changes to this system because I realized a couple of days after I set up the system that baby brine shrimp need constant flow and aeration, without either, they would inevitably die (at least for me).

I'm going to do a full write up on the system in an effort to apologize to anyone who tried this and it failed them. So, here we go. Word of caution, do this at your own risk, and, when you run this system for the first time, make sure it is on a day when you can be next to the tank all day, to make sure the system runs properly and does not flood your floor due to back siphoning.

Things you'll need:
- A water bottle which can maintain an air tight seal and has a plastic cap which is at least 1.5" in diameter (what I use now is a 1 gallon hawaiian punch plastic bottle).
- 2 lengths of 3/16" rigid airline tubing which are as tall as the bottle you will be using.
- A length of silicone tubing which is 5 times the height of your tank (i.e., if you have a 2 foot tall tank on a 3 foot stand, then, it's 5x5=25ft). (A note on this, I recommend using silicone airline tubing and not PVC, as I've noticed the silicone makes a better air tight seal when inserted into the holes in the cap you will be drilling).
- One 10-20 gallon tank air pump (you can use larger than this)
- One 200+ gallon air pump (I use the petco 26-212 gallon, four outlet air pump) with all of the outlets feeding into one outlet (you can use airline tubing and t-adapters to do this).
- One power outlet timer (I use a basic digital one from home depot)
- One flat hose clamp adapter (I made my own, but you can use something like a SEOH Hoffman Tubing Clamp).
- Drill with a bit which is sized so it can slide into silicone tubing with ease (with little restriction when sliding it in/out) as well as a 2mm bit (doesn’t have to be 2mm, but close to it).
- Velcro with adhesive backing
- One airline tubing elbow connection
- 2 Airflow adjusters (I use two basic ones from Petco).
- 2 airline tubing suction cups
- Heater (optional)
- Container which the water bottle you are using can fit into (optional)
- Hatched brine shrimp in enough water to fill the water container ¾ of the way.

Ok, so, first thing to do is, using your drill and bit, drill 4 holes into the cap of the water bottle, spacing them out evenly but making sure not to place any of the drill holes through the section of the cap which seals the bottle (if you look inside the cap, there will be a small ring in the cap, do not drill through that section).

Cut your airline tubing into the following lengths: 1 length is twice the height of your tank + 3 ft (we will call this Line A), another which is the height of your tank + 2 ft (we will call this Line B), another which is about 2 ft (we will call this Line C), and another which is ½ ft (we will call this Line D).

Cut off ½ of a ft from line A and cut Line C in half. Place one of the air flow controllers onto Line A so that and place the cut section of 1/2 ft tubing back onto the other side of the flow controller on Line A. Do the same thing for Line C so that the flow controller is in the middle of the two lengths of tubing on Line C.

Take your 2 lengths of rigid airline tubing and cut them to the following lengths: one which is 3 inches shorter than the height of the bottle (we will call this Tube A), and another two which are half the height of the bottle each (we will call this Tubes B and C).

Drill a 2mm (approximately) hole into Tube C at the middle of the tube (only drill through one wall, not both sides). Note, you can drill a bigger hole, but keep in mind the bigger the hole, the more water will dribble out of the tube at this location when you run the system.

Insert your 4 cut pieces of tubing in through the 4 holes of the cap, setting up the tubing so that the opening of each tube should sit 1 inch from the cap.
Put Tube A into Line A, then adjust the tubing as needed so that the opening of the rigid tube sits 2 inches from the bottom of the bottle when the cap of the bottle is screwed on tightly. Attach the other end of the tubing to the 10-20 gallon pump.

Put Tube B into Line B, then adjust the tubing as needed so that the opening of the rigid tube sits at half the height of the bottle when the cap is screwed on tightly. Attach Tube C to the open end of the tubing, then, at the open end of Tube C, attach your elbow connection (note, you may need a small section of leftover silicone tubing to connect these).

Connect Line C to the 212 gallon pump. Don’t attach anything to Line D yet (having nothing connected to Line D will prevent you from flooding your floor during the next step).

Now, place the brine shrimp with water into the water jug. Close the cap onto the bottle (obviously with all tubes under the cap in the bottle) and make sure the cap is on tight. Plug the 10 gallon air pump in and adjust the flow controller on Line A until the water is has pretty turbulent at the water line but flow is slow enough at the bottom to just barely lift anything off the bottom (I actually turn it down a little less than this, but it results in me emptying the bottle and cleaning it once a week). Be cautious because I’ve seen that if you leave BBS in a very aggressive flow for more than 2 days all you end up with is orange water and no BBS.

Place a strip of the adhesive backed Velcro onto the middle of Line A. Place the other half of the Velcro strip onto the highest part of the tank where you won’t see it (I put mine on a corner of the top bracing). Attach the Velcro from the tube to the Velcro of the tank. By doing this step, it will aid in the prevention of back siphoning (secondary backup).

Attach Tube C to the open end of Line B. Using a small piece of additional silicone tubing, put the elbow adapter onto the front end of Tube C.

Run Line B up the back of the tank so you can’t see it and set up the line so that Tube C runs along the inside of the Tank above the water line with the elbow pointing down toward the tank. Adjust Tube C as needed so that the 2mm hole is also pointing down toward the tank. Adjust Tube C so that the 2mm hole also points down toward the tank. Use your suction cups to keep Tube C above the waterline inside the tank (Note, it is extremely important to always keep Tube C above the waterline, if it ever falls into the waterline unattended, it will back siphon and cause a slow flood. I have additional bracketing along the side of my tank as a redundant safety precaution to make sure that Tube C does not fall into the waterline by accident).

Now, place the tubing clamp onto Line D on the side which sits outside of the bottle. Slowly adjust the clamp to clamp down on the tubing, waiting about 30 seconds between each adjustment and paying very close attention to Line A where it exits the bottle. You want to adjust the clamp so that it is just slightly more open from where you see water begin to run out of the bottle up Line A. If you see water running up Line A, you are clamping down too much.

Now, attach Line C to the 212 gallon pump. Adjust the air flow valve on Line C to the fully closed position. Plug in the pump and slowly open the flow controller, waiting 30 second between each adjustment. Adjust the flow controller so that water from the bottle will run up Line B and into the tank.

Slow or speed up the flow as needed so you have a steady stream of brine shrimp out of the elbow, but not so much that you’re flooding your tank with brine shrimp (adjust as needed to meet your feeding need). Please note, the 212 pump is pressurizing the system, so it is normal to see the air bubbles from inside the water bottle to slow down, but, the bubbles should never completely stop. If the bubbles slow down to about 2 bubbles a second or more after 2 minutes when the 212 pump is running, you are fine. It is normal to have water flowing out of the 2mm hole in Tube C, this will be a necessary evil to make sure that the system doesn’t back siphon.

Unplug the 212 pump and make sure that the system stops feeding, the water in Line B will flow back into the bottle. Line B should be empty of water at this point and only contain air.

Plug your 212 pump and plug it into your electric socket timer. Set the timer as needed for your feeding requirements.

If you would like as added option, place the heater into the optional containers for the bottle, place the water bottle into the container, fill the container half way with water, and turn on the heater so that the brine shrimp bottle is in a warm water bath (helps remove temperature shock of the brine shrimp if in a cold room. The added benefit of the water bath is that if the system does happen to back siphon, it will pour into the water bath, giving you a little extra time to react.

Now is the tedious part. I strongly recommend you monitor the system for a minimum of 6-8 hours, making sure that the system is not doing any of the following:
• The system is not back siphoning through line B: If this happens, then make sure that Tube C is not sitting under the water line. If it is above the water line, you may need to make the 2mm hole slightly bigger.
• The system still feeds when the 212 pump is off, then you need to do one of two things: open the tube clamp on Line D or turn back the flow on the 10-20 gallon pump until the system just stops feeding.
• When the 212 pump is running, it does not feed: turn up the flow on the 212 pump or turn up the flow on the 10-20 gal pump, or turn down the tube clamp so a little more pressure can build up in the system.

Sorry if it seems confusing above, just didn’t have the time to take pictures of the system. Hopefully this might be able to help some of you guys out.

[Angel*Fish]

The argument, as I see it, for generally leaving these fish in the wild is that only about 3 people in the universe are going to set up a situation where they can get enough food. They shouldn't just be swimming around at the LFS for sale.

Hats off to anyone willing to do his due diligence in feeding these lovely little fish or come up with new, clever systems for doing so. I just don't think anyone should be able to obtain them without special ordering them.

[Deinonych]

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

The argument, as I see it, for generally leaving these fish in the wild is that only about 3 people in the universe are going to set up a situation where they can get enough food. They shouldn't just be swimming around at the LFS for sale.

Hats off to anyone willing to do his due diligence in feeding these lovely little fish or come up with new, clever systems for doing so. I just don't think anyone should be able to obtain them without special ordering them.

I tend to agree. One of the LFS in my area gets them in from time to time, and I just shake my head when I see them, knowing they won't survive long term.

[nivram]

I've had good luck feeding the adults live brine. Once they are eating the live brine, I've weened them to frozen brine and eventually to Hikari mysis. I started out with 3 females. One female turned male. Over time both females jumped, the lone male I had for almost a year before losing it along with my other fish to Brook or some other disease.

Right now I'm nursing two tiny juveniles. They are eating live baby brine shrimp and tigger pods. A friend thinks the juveniles I have are actually Pascalus vs Tukas. They lack the orange stripe.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

The argument, as I see it, for generally leaving these fish in the wild is that only about 3 people in the universe are going to set up a situation where they can get enough food. They shouldn't just be swimming around at the LFS for sale.

Hats off to anyone willing to do his due diligence in feeding these lovely little fish or come up with new, clever systems for doing so. I just don't think anyone should be able to obtain them without special ordering them.

FWIW, I completely agree. Always a dilemma for me whether to buy difficult fish or not. On one hand I'm likely to give the fish a better chance for survival; on the other hand I'm fueling demand and thus continued supply.

[ca1ore]

Here's a shot of the five a month in. Green tinge to the tank is nitrofuracin green powder. One of the evansi has been showing signs of either a bacterial or fungal problem. All tuka's are eating, though not all the same thing. Just when I think I have them all on bigger foods, one or two will decide they don't like it after all. Been able to keep weight on, feeding ova, brine, Mysis and LRS; though they are going to end up in my leopard-anthias 90 rather than the aggressive 265.

[caribfan]

Thanks Simon, they look great.

[ca1ore]

Will try to take a video of them eating.

[Aquatron]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

FWIW, I completely agree. Always a dilemma for me whether to buy difficult fish or not. On one hand I'm likely to give the fish a better chance for survival; on the other hand I'm fueling demand and thus continued supply.

I was there in the 90s and it was one of the driving forces that pushed me to learn and better understand Refugium's. After having a chance to see the one at Monaco and with the research of what Refugium material I could find (1989) along with hard head basic learning I designed, patented, and brought to or hobby at MACNA X, three & four chambered Refugium's along with the first BackPack skimmer first Refugium's.
The hope was helping hobbiest better understand another part of our hobby regarding quality water control with supplemental natural food source. Envisioning less marine life death as the main winner and hobbiest seeing the full cycle allowing better understanding/knowledge of our hobby.
This is a great thread with black and white information given with how to keep these....hard to keep beautiful fish. My build is not wet yet so I have none of these fish Along with the information and pictures this is a learning thread so fish may/will die but with the start you guy's have here once finished maybe takes these guy's off the hard to keep list?
Keep up the good work on this one